Tennis shoe can prevent an ankle roll ? I call BS.

TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
Wait a second, how can a tennis shoe even help to prevent an ankle roll in the first place?
I can only see this if you're wearing high tops that serve as a brace both above and below the ankle joint.
Almost like a splint, this would truly prevent ankle roll.

However, in a tennis sneaker, the ankle is exposed, like in any other sneaker.
It shouldn't matter how stiff the sneaker is.
In theory, if you wore steel sneakers with the ankles exposed, how would that help prevent rolling the ankle?
If you stop short laterally, the entire steel shoe can just roll right over at the exposed ankle hinge.

Now that I've given it more than 30 seconds of thought, I think I was suckered into yet another marketing scam.
"Tennis sneakers prevent ankle roll". I say BS because it makes no sense.

My old Prince sneakers were beat up, so it's not a total loss, but I'm just saying.
At least the new Barricade 6.0's will have fresh padding.
But, I can't see how they can help prevent ankle rolls.
 
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WildVolley

WildVolley

Legend
TimeToPlaySets said:
Wait a second, how can a tennis shoe even help to prevent an ankle roll in the first place?
I can only see this if you're wearing high tops that serve as a brace both above and below the ankle joint.
Almost like a splint, this would truly prevent ankle roll.
Click to expand...

It isn't necessarily preventing ankle rolls, but some shoes can cause them. If the shoe doesn't have lateral stability and sufficient strength and stiffness around the foot, the foot can actually push over the outsole and out the side of the shoe, such that the bottom of the foot is half resting on the bottom of the shoe and part resting on the side. This can cause you to trip and possibly roll the ankle. This causes the shoe to critically fail and snap over, usually tripping the person wearing them.

Most of the people advising against wearing running shoes have had this happen when making a cut to the side or trying to stop quickly when moving sideways.
 
Tyler91

Tyler91

Rookie
^^^ This happened to me today in my G4s. Luckily the ankle roll wasn't serious...but it could have been. I think this depends a lot on the person. I have thin wrists and ankles. I've rolled ankles too many times to count...even in high-top shoes on the basketball court.

I have always been a believer in investing in good shoes. IMO, it makes a difference.
 
R

red rook

Guest
To take a step back (haha) let me first ask do you see a difference between a running shoe and say a cross trainer in lateral movement performance?
 
TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
WildVolley said:
It isn't necessarily preventing ankle rolls, but some shoes can cause them. If the shoe doesn't have lateral stability and sufficient strength and stiffness around the foot, the foot can actually push over the outsole and out the side of the shoe, such that the bottom of the foot is half resting on the bottom of the shoe and part resting on the side. This can cause you to trip and possibly roll the ankle. This causes the shoe to critically fail and snap over, usually tripping the person wearing them.

Most of the people advising against wearing running shoes have had this happen when making a cut to the side or trying to stop quickly when moving sideways.
Click to expand...

WildVolley, so you're saying with a soft sided sneaker, the foot can actually "slide" off the edge of platform of the shoe's sole? With a harder side wall, the foot would not be able to slide off the edge, so to speak. This actually makes sense, if this is how one rolls an ankle. Thanks.
 
zapvor

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
actually tennis shoes can prevent rolling. try playing in running shoes, then tennis shoes. huge difference
 
Vlad_C

Vlad_C

Semi-Pro
Tennis shoes have a stiffer upper, particularly on the sides and around the ankle. As already said, that will prevent the foot from slipping over the edge of the sole, and prevents ankle rolls.

Running shoes have very little lateral stability, since that is not a concern in running. For most running shoes I've seen, the upper is just mesh, or a combination of mesh and soft plastics, with absolutely no lateral stability.

You try playing sets in some soft sneakers, ad see how you'll end up spending the next couple of weeks on the couch with ice over over your ankles...
 
sansaephanh

sansaephanh

Professional
since everyone seems to be trolling here, let me join.

DUDE. I SWEAR TO OMG THAT IT TOTARRY WORX MAN!

JUST WEAR A PAIR OF WOMENS 10 INCH HEELS AND COMPARE IT TO THE TENNIS SHOES YOU HAVE. ONE ROLLS MORE ANKLES THEN THE OTHER RIGHT BROSPEHINTHEJOSEPHINTHE*******?

/end thread
 
TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
sansaephanh said:
JUST WEAR A PAIR OF WOMENS 10 INCH HEELS AND COMPARE IT TO THE TENNIS SHOES YOU HAVE. ONE ROLLS MORE ANKLES THEN THE OTHER RIGHT BROSPEHINTHEJOSEPHINTHE*******?
/end thread
Click to expand...

Clearly, there is a difference between women's heels and tennis sneakers, but is there a difference between tennis sneakers and regular sneakers. For the latter, the difference is far more minute. Your example does not prove tennis sneakers "work".
 
R

red rook

Guest
There's a large difference in support from a running shoe to a cross trainer, even if they have the same height on the ankle. Go to play a couple hours of flag football with both and report back. Also take for instance low-cut basketball shoes. They offer so much more lateral stability than running shoes. Can't see how you can argue with that. Same principle carries over to tennis specific shoes.
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
TimeToPlaySets said:
Clearly, there is a difference between women's heels and tennis sneakers, but is there a difference between tennis sneakers and regular sneakers. For the latter, the difference is far more minute. Your example does not prove tennis sneakers "work".
Click to expand...
What are "regular sneakers"?

Shoes are made for specific purposes. Would you run a marathon in bowling shoes or baseball cleats?
 
zapvor

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
when he rolls his ankle from running shoes or 'regular sneakers' we will all know because he will be posting much more instead of out playing tennis
 
D

Dreamcastin

Rookie
shoes can deff make a diff. besides hurting my foot(and this is prob why) my foot would slide to the outside of the shoe on latteral movements and almost caused me to roll my ankle a couple of times before i gave up on them(nike breathe 2k11s). theres lots of marketing bs out there, but shoes are something you dont want to mess around with. I stupidly played a set of tennis in casual shoes when i was in high school. It was 6 months before I could walk and bend my knees without excruciating pain, another 6 months before I could comfortably run on the tennis court. I still have knee pain to this day(almost 10 years later) ranging from mild to severe depending on the day. Play with a cheap racquet, strings, clothes, but cheaping out on shoes is a big mistake.
 
waginen

waginen

Rookie
TimeToPlaySets said:
Believe me, playing a set of tennis in bad shoes will NOT have lasting impact like you describe. Sounds like you have other, more serious health issues. It's clear your injuries has nothing to do with tennis. I played tennis in ****kicker Timerland boots back in high school. I had no problems whatsoever.

I've played tennis on and off for over 20 years, and never owned "tennis" shoes. I have never rolled my ankle either. I bought tennis shoes this time around b/c I finally enjoy shopping at this age. But, playing in sneakers will not CAUSE injury. That is a flat out myth.
Click to expand...

Maybe at you level you do not need tennis shoes. But I really can not use regular shoes during clay tournament. If you tell me regular shoes can not cause injury you have never played tennis at competitive level.
 
Rozroz

Rozroz

G.O.A.T.
wow, this debate is so stupid!!!
maybe the OP just have different feet and muscle structure and it doesn't bother him wearing sneakers so his opinion is definite..

SO WHAT???
 
maxpotapov

maxpotapov

Hall of Fame
BreakPoint said:
Because tennis shoes are designed specifically for tennis to specifically prevent rolling over on its side. The entire shoe is stiffer and wider to make them more stable.
Click to expand...

True, let one try to roll the ankle in Courtballistecs 2.3, for instance. Those outside "bumpers" and overall glove-like (or ski boots) fit make it really complicated if not impossible.
 
TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
maxpotapov said:
True, let one try to roll the ankle in Courtballistecs 2.3, for instance. Those outside "bumpers" and overall glove-like (or ski boots) fit make it really complicated if not impossible.
Click to expand...

Like any other sneaker, the ankle joint is exposed (unlike hightops)...I find it impossible yo believe you can not physically roll your ankle in Courtballistecs 2.3. I can say that one can easily roll your ankle in Barricade 6.0s
 
KineticChain

KineticChain

Hall of Fame
Tennis shoes with high midsole heels increase your chances of rolling an ankle. That increase in height applies a greater moment about the ankle joint during a roll. Notice that it is very difficult to roll your ankle if barefoot or wearing a low/flat heeled shoe.
 
P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
KineticChain said:
Tennis shoes with high midsole heels increase your chances of rolling an ankle. That increase in height applies a greater moment about the ankle joint during a roll. Notice that it is very difficult to roll your ankle if barefoot or wearing a low/flat heeled shoe.
Click to expand...
Totally agreed, and confirmed by experience. Plus no one is arguing that running shoes are more stable than tennis shoes.
 
Bobby Jr

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
TimeToPlaySets said:
Like any other sneaker, the ankle joint is exposed (unlike hightops)...I find it impossible yo believe you can not physically roll your ankle in Courtballistecs 2.3.
Click to expand...
I think you're looking at the ankle support aspect of the situation and omitting the roll-over resistance aspect of the shoe itself.

Ankles don't roll for the most part because the ankle is unsupported, they roll because the base of the foot is unstable and rolls over - leaving the ankle joint to 'fight' the rollover. In movements of sharp side-to-side motion no ankle joint can defeat the impetus of the foot to roll. It is at a huge mechanical disadvantage compounded by the increased apparent weight above it which adds a significant force to the last joint before the foot.

Making the foot more stable is the most practical way to prevent rollover and a good tennis shoe does just that.

Of course you can roll your ankle in a CB2.3 or a barricade, but they will resist the root cause of the a rolled ankle much longer than having no shoes or ones which aren't designed with lateral movement in mind.

If you are in a situation where the ground is very uneven then you are right - a shoe which offers no specific ankle support wont really offer any more protection. That's why shoes like tramping boots - designed for really uneven surfaces - look how they do.
 
S

spacediver

Hall of Fame
I've been trying to grasp this concept of "foot stability". Am I on the right track here?

Rolling the ankle happens when the ankle joint undergoes extreme inversion.

(see image here: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~humananatomy/figures/chapter_17/17-6_files/IMAGE001.JPG )

Now the interesting thing is that your foot is not a perfectly rigid body. It can flex and deform. In particular, the structure can flex such that the dorsal surface of your foot can become more curved and compressed. Think about squeezing someone's hand during a hand shake - you're compressing their hand such that the back of it (opposite side of the palm) becomes compressed and curves. The exact same thing can happen to your foot, where the opposite side of your sole (the dorsal side) can become more curved and compressed.

When this happens, it should be intuitively obvious that the foot is more liable to roll over. This is because the foot starts to more closely approximate the shape of a cylinder (which is simply an extruded wheel). When you move a plank of wood sideways along a surface, it is less likely to roll compared to moving a log sideways.

I think the idea with foot stability is that shoes that hug the contours of the foot tightly, and have a degree of stiffness, will simulate making the foot itself a stiffer structure, and thus less liable to such compression.
 
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P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
I just from experience find it extremely hard to roll over with no shoes or minimal shoes (that are only a few millimeters above the ground). Have never done that, but have done it in tennis shoes.
 
U

usta2050

Rookie
TimeToPlaySets said:
Wait a second, how can a tennis shoe even help to prevent an ankle roll in the first place?
I can only see this if you're wearing high tops that serve as a brace both above and below the ankle joint.
Almost like a splint, this would truly prevent ankle roll.

However, in a tennis sneaker, the ankle is exposed, like in any other sneaker.
It shouldn't matter how stiff the sneaker is.
In theory, if you wore steel sneakers with the ankles exposed, how would that help prevent rolling the ankle?
If you stop short laterally, the entire steel shoe can just roll right over at the exposed ankle hinge.

Now that I've given it more than 30 seconds of thought, I think I was suckered into yet another marketing scam.
"Tennis sneakers prevent ankle roll". I say BS because it makes no sense.

My old Prince sneakers were beat up, so it's not a total loss, but I'm just saying.
At least the new Barricade 6.0's will have fresh padding.
But, I can't see how they can help prevent ankle rolls.
Click to expand...

I agree shoes can't "prevent" ankle rolls but some shoes fit me better and so I roll my ankles less. For example, I would never wear the Costco 20 dollar Kirkland tennis shoes for tennis because I rolled my ankle in them when I tried them on. But some people love them and they fit them great!
 
volleygirl

volleygirl

Rookie
waginen said:
Maybe at you level you do not need tennis shoes. But I really can not use regular shoes during clay tournament. If you tell me regular shoes can not cause injury you have never played tennis at competitive level.
Click to expand...



Youre exactly right Waginen. If hes going out and just goofing around on the tennis court, he doesnt need good tennis shoes but if he was actually any good, he wouldnt have asked the question to begin with.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Professional
TimeToPlaySets said:
Wait a second, how can a tennis shoe even help to prevent an ankle roll in the first place?
I can only see this if you're wearing high tops that serve as a brace both above and below the ankle joint.
Almost like a splint, this would truly prevent ankle roll.

However, in a tennis sneaker, the ankle is exposed, like in any other sneaker.
It shouldn't matter how stiff the sneaker is.
In theory, if you wore steel sneakers with the ankles exposed, how would that help prevent rolling the ankle?
If you stop short laterally, the entire steel shoe can just roll right over at the exposed ankle hinge.

Now that I've given it more than 30 seconds of thought, I think I was suckered into yet another marketing scam.
"Tennis sneakers prevent ankle roll". I say BS because it makes no sense.

My old Prince sneakers were beat up, so it's not a total loss, but I'm just saying.
At least the new Barricade 6.0's will have fresh padding.
But, I can't see how they can help prevent ankle rolls.
Click to expand...

Tennis shoes have a wider, flatter sole on the forefoot than running shoes. It takes a lot more moment and larger radius of roll to roll over.

They also provide a stiffer upper on the forefoot to prevent lateral movement of the forefoot. Keeping the forefoot centered in the shoe also prevents rolling.
 
P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
waginen said:
Maybe at you level you do not need tennis shoes. But I really can not use regular shoes during clay tournament. If you tell me regular shoes can not cause injury you have never played tennis at competitive level.
Click to expand...
Well at least I am not talking about "regular" shoes (or running shoes), but specificly low to the ground (minimal) shoes without a lot of material between you and the surface. They allow the foots natural stability to function, whereas for every couple of millimeters you elevate the foot from the ground, you jeopardise this stability more and more, creating the need for "tech" in the shoe, and still people are rolling their ankles on court.
Vivo Barefoot, a leading minimal shoe brand, was developed by a tennisplayer as a solution to repeatedly rolling his ankle on court.
But this has been thorougly debated in other threads.
Edit: Check out the Merrell Barefoot Run Road Glove thread.
 
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USERNAME

USERNAME

Professional
Someone mentioned the slight flared edge on the 2.3 and that is the perfect example of a shoe built to combat rolls, bigshots and barricades are other great examples of the wide firm base built to help a tennis player. Someone also mentioned the level of player and how that correlates to the shoes they use, I agree. Those of the club level may not need all the protection because they don't play with as much intensity but those who play and win section/national level matches will need all the protection they can get. I've messed around in running and minimalist type shoes on court and I can say from personal experience I have NO confidence in my movement because I have NO support.
 
D

Darkhors

Rookie
TimeToPlaySets said:
Like any other sneaker, the ankle joint is exposed (unlike hightops)...I find it impossible yo believe you can not physically roll your ankle in Courtballistecs 2.3. I can say that one can easily roll your ankle in Barricade 6.0s
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I went away from my Barricades. The heel is way too high off the ground and that in itself can lead to ankle rolls. As stated in a post above, the higher your heel is off the ground, the higher % of rolling the ankle. I now use the Prince Rebel 2's. They are extremely comfortable and very low to the ground, not to mention light, and I feel like there's no way I could roll my ankle.

The other thing to look for too is how much traction the shoes have around the toe box. I had an extreme high level sprain (as bad as you can sprain it without breaking it) because my New balance shoes (1185's) caught the court when I was split stepping and pulled my foot under my body as I came down. Needless to say that was the last day I wore those. I'm now a prince user for good.

DH
 
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