You have to take those campus showdowns and open invite university tournaments with a grain of salt. Especially at a big D1 school. I don't know a college player that has ever taken them seriously. They are usually done the same day as another sporting event so that you go to both. Players are not encouranged to go 100% against some junior who has dreams of playing there. Think about it. How do you think it looks when a 14 year old comes to the net on a 22 year old Senior and gets pegged in the head?
Brad Baughman
- Thread starter SoCalDominates
- Start date
Misterbill
Semi-Pro
Yes you did.
As far as drawing my own conclusions, I am currently concluding that the players you speak of are unique to tennis in the collegiate sports world, as far as I know it. The college athletes I know of are more likely to hide an injury in order to keep playing rather than fake an injury so they don't have to play.
Not saying I have universal knowledge, this is just based on my slice of experience.
There is a lot of talk on this Board about the problems of tennis in the US. The attitude you speak of has now risen to the top of my list
coaching32yrs
Semi-Pro
Like I said, my inside knowledge is with mid-level D3. The players I refer to are the top players, but not blue chippers. 1 or 2 star. Anyway it's just semantics- it happened. Bill, you don't see the same juniors who time and again retire with injuries, or retire from backdraws? The kids know who they are and they are the subject of a running joke. You think those kids go through a change when they go to college? As far as Campus Showdowns- I agree to some extent that they aren't the same as a fall tournament. However from what I saw the college guys were not told to take it easy and they did not tank it. Quite the opposite. The college guys were tired and did not want to be there. But when they took the court they did their best.
I talk to Ivy players all the time and my guess is some Harvard players found a reason not to fly cross country and play the Napa event. Only a guess.
What does this have to do with D1 players at Napa?
Harvard played in 2 events last weekend, one was in Napa and the other one was in Flushing, N.Y. All 12 of the guys on the roster played over the weekend.
The only ones I have ever heard complaining on an Ivy team are the coaches and that is because the academics are so tough that the guys who want to stay on court don't have the time. There is nothing keeping a guy on an Ivy team. They can walk off the team at any time, just like in D3. They are there because they want to be there.
coaching32yrs
Semi-Pro
I guess we can agree to disagree. Every player that I have known or seen on a D3 team wants to be there. Every player knows they are not going pro. Most players have priorities that sometimes get in the way of competition. That's what I am saying. That is what I have seen. Also, the academics at Ivies are not universally "so tough". Some schools and programs yes, others not so much. There are D3 schools where certain academics and programs are tougher. I visited one Patriot League coach with a player recently. The coach told the player your academics come first, before tennis.
nope, not here to "poo poo" it, just another absolutely routine and expected straight sets loss that tells us nothing (like the peliwo match)
not much to say about it unless brad gets on here like after the peliwo match and claims the match was incredibly close due to some obviously erroneous unforced error statistics
Number1Coach
Banned
I was not at the match but have it on video , I was encouraged to see he lossed because of unforced errors and being outplayed as I figured would be the case , Deit at this point was hitting to big for the guy and had he backed off could have won this , I will post some video of points won and loss .
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Number1Coach
Banned
Just for you I will post a few point where DB is moving this guy all around and pulls the trigger a bit early to finish only to nail the tape or miss a bit wide but most of the match was that.
DB should have backed off, I must admit he was way to impatient but seeing this guys ranking and knowing a slight adjustment and its a different ending is good with me .
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you can post them for someone else, i'm not too interested
why? because your mentality that DB is doing well because he's hitting bigger than some guys that he's losing to is laughable to me
your son would perhaps outhit kudla if they played a match - but kudla would also beat your son in his sleep 9,999 out of 10,000 times because he's too fit, too steady, and too smart out there for your son to ever compete with
your son might even outhit ferrer on some points if they played - means nothing, nothing, and nothing to me
but that's fine that you continue to be encouraged - i'm happy for you - maybe even IMG will be pleased with his ball-whacking skills, and that will make both of us very happy if he signs a contract in a few months
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Number1Coach
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You say tennis is not like that ,your right but from everything you say year to year shows nme you don't have the slightest idea of what the word "development" means or the word "marathon" ! See if he starts having good results which he has you say "well he's looking good" if he loses you say "this guy would have done this and that guy would have done that then you would site Jr ITF rankings ! Once again development is something you need to define just like your definition of athlete , you think athlete means a black person and your incorrect on that also .
I like how you're thinking, development, marathon. Keep up the focus on process and good things will happen for DB. At least you seem to know this is not an overnight thing as some would try to have us believe, such as if you don't win this by a certain age you won't make it to here, magical/mythical ball striking skills, losses, etc. Keep up the hard work, good attitude and watch your excuse making. You're getting better there. Good luck
why have you started mentioning this a few times lately? i haven't really seen any racial athlete comments from anyone else?
is someone slipping some heavy metals in your food? you seem to be losing it
Number1Coach
Banned
not you Mike , Tcf has made references in the past that true athletes are the inn-city kids or aka black , but websters dictionary defines the athlete differently.
gotcha, yeah that TCF guy isn't a scholar of the English language like you and me
coaching32yrs
Semi-Pro
Coach #1: This is important for your player, and all players out there. I am sure DB can get a full ride at a good D1 school with a top tennis program.
He can go to college and still become a tennis pro. Based on his level of play and results it is absolutely insane not to go to college. I am sorry to put it so bluntly.
There is tremendous value in going to college beyond the 4 walls of the classroom. I don't know much, as is frequently pointed out to me on the Board, but this I know.
The way I see it your are correct about his D1 options and post college pro options. I disagree in that you're looking to far ahead regarding where the kid will be results wise when college time comes. He's 16.6 years old.
arche3
Banned
Go all in brad! College is lame except for the girls... I actually think there is no reason the kid cannot go pro. Why not? It will either happen or not. Win or lose. Develop his weapons and speed. Watch him grow into his body. See where he is at 18. From his videos he needs a bigger serve and fh.
Number1Coach
Banned
Looking at all options your right he is 16 and we have well over a year and a half maybe 2 for college ,,he is allready top 10 nationally and being inside the top ten wasn't our goal , we look to play and develop as he is growing, top 10 is a by-product of the work put in . We could be sitting at the top spot very quickley then what ?
Just gonna make goals and see how he does .Thanx for your encouragement but more for your common sense it is refreshing .
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Number1Coach
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Tcf the boy holds a pretty nice GPA 3.8 and this is 4 or 5 AP classes and some other nonsense he has to do but I hate to break it to you , he can do what he wants and he is leaning towards what you think is impossible , I would back him which ever way he chooses .
Think about this and formally uneducated man has a child playing a high level of tennis nationally and has pretty much the choice of any school he wants at 16 oh wait 16.5 ,,having done that you don't think. I can calculate wheather the tour is possible ?
I agree. It is a little premature to know where DB will be when he is 18.
It does seem that going to college with an eye on the pros has worked out relatively well for several players in recent years.
However, I wonder about those players who really have had such a large part of their development be driven by their parents. Once the kid gets to college, the father/coach would not have much involvement in his further development as a potential tennis pro.
It seems like that could be a good or bad thing..in terms of the player meeting his full potential.
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You speak in terms of playing pro tennis and there being anything about the players chances being speculative in nature so negatively. We all know the safe path. You have beaten that relentlessly. Going pro, trying and not making it is not the end of ones world as you would try to lead us to believe. You would have a hard time naming one country with 5 grand slam prospects, let alone in the U.S. so I'm not sure what point that makes. Current unemployment/underemployed rates for college grads now is around 50%. Yes, that's right, look it up. So what's the big deal? Nothing is garunteed other than death and taxes. Let him play pro. So what if he ends up in college. You'll be right! Woo hoo. We all know Brad's idea of having a sniff of making it on the pro tour is based on that being the plan and according to Brad the only plan. Ok, it's their life, so what.
I say good luck to them. Go for it. How many get even a remote shot at playing the pro game. Although his chances are slim, they're a heck of a lot higher than 99.99% of kids playing the game today. Is their path wise, who is to say? It's the Internet, I know, anyone can say.
Rant out.
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I just came across an old Washington Post article about UVa tennis, with lots of discussion of the general issue of going to college vs. going pro:
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coaching32yrs
Semi-Pro
Coach I fear you are wasting your breath with these individuals. They just don't get how ridiculously good the top 80 players on the ATP tour are. They think a few pretty good results in junior tournaments and hard work can get them there. Insanity. There is one, I repeat one young American in the ATP top 80. He is number 53. Do you realize how freakishly talented he was at 16 compared to what's out there now? He was hitting serves over 125 routinely with good placement. His second serve was kicking up to the opponent's eyeballs. His movement, volleys, athleticism- off the charts. None of today's American 16 or 17 year old's are anywhere near his class. I am talking about Ryan Harrison. I've seen all the top young Americans play. There are no Harrisons- not even close.
The kid said he wanted to be a Marine Biologist when he was 13 or 14, about the time you said he was going to play DII. Just like that, things change. I didn't say he was going to make money playing pro tennis. I actually agree with you more than I disagree. Trying to play pro tennis insted of going to college is not the end of the world. College courses can be taken on line.
You have any dumb stats to back up your garbage majors at garbage schools? That's what I thought.
What I'm saying, is why do you keep on and on with your broken record message? If your point is so valid why to do you keep saying the same thing over and over and over? Sure anyone can say they are playing pro tennis we all know that. In this case it's not like he's ranked 100 in the 18s.
Why not just let them be? There must be something from a fight you and Brad had in the past because you clearly can't let go.
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By top young Americans are you talking about Blue Chips or DIII players this time?
that is such a dumb method of argument...
i don't know how good the data is out there for average salaries or employment percentages from different schools (i imagine not so great - probably hard to track this with great reliability, and probably the lower end of salaries and the unemployed would be less likely to self-report) - but don't you anecdotally or just by common sense know this to be true?
trust me, the biomed engineering / econ / math majors from duke are doing a lot better than the african-american studies and communications majors from nc central down the road...it shouldn't take someone finding airtight data for you to realize this
try going to a career fair at both schools - notice a difference in the number of recruiters from huge wall street firms / consulting firms / etc? you would
anecdotally out of the eight guys i lived with in college, no one wasn't either employed or in med school / law school / engineering phd track out of college - out of the five that went straight into the job market i'd say they're ranging from 75K to 400+K (two years at GS then on to private equity is a nice route apparently) three years out
just another issue where TCF is right but gets hated on for it - clearly it matters 1) where you go to school and 2) what you major in ... the only question up for debate is which matters more, which i'd say is highly dependent on the type of job you're going for ... i-banking or consulting --> top school ... a lot of other stuff that doesn't depend as much on having the recruiters swarm your school --> good major choice
Asking for stats to back up and argument is dumb? Hate, hated on, hater, all code for you disagree with me using logic and fact, I have none, so I'll use the term "hate" to make my point. Maybe the weakest form of debate known in modern times.
in some cases, not knowing something just because you haven't seen great stats to back it up is dumb, yes
if you make a habit of slamming on your emergency break once every time you're on the higway - humor me here - do you think your chances of crashing increase? do you think you decrease the lifetime of your vehicle?
have you read many reports analyzing this possible relationship? or is it just sort of obvious to you?
similarly, if you ask 100 people on the street if they think a harvard grad with an econ major makes more on average (and is less likely to be unemployed) than a valparaiso st grad with a communications degree...100 of them would say yes...or, well, 99 of them - you'd be the idiot who doesn't know and is about to go crash on the interstate because no one provided you an airtight report that slamming on your E-brake is a bad idea
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^^^^^Give him a hand everyone. That was mikej comparing apple and oranges. Funny stuff.
Ok, humor me, by your logic recent graduates with non-garbage majors at non-garbage schools have a very low unemployment/underemployed rate? Right? Got to wonder what those numbers are since the overall number reported is 53%. The garbage majors and garbage schools must be running around 80 or 90% to scew things.
See why making crap statements without anything to back it up is so weak? Probably not, I'm going to pull my Emergency Brake now.
Ok, humor me, by your logic recent graduates with non-garbage majors at non-garbage schools have a very low unemployment/underemployed rate? Right? Got to wonder what those numbers are since the overall number reported is 53%. The garbage majors and garbage schools must be running around 80 or 90% to scew things.
See why making crap statements without anything to back it up is so weak? Probably not, I'm going to pull my Emergency Brake now.
glad you liked it
yep, much lower than 53%
no, there are way way more garbage schools out there than great schools like stanford / ucla / cal etc that a guy like DB might be able to go to with his tennis (at least according to some people on here) - so the data is heavily weighted towards the data from junk schools
no, those arguments made no impression on me, you don't seem very intelligent
by the way, can you provide some good sources including the data for this 53% number (not interested in some news article that doesn't have the original data) - not doubting it could be true, but you're the "let's see the evidence" guy - so let's see it?
I would just do what Deit wants to do. Its his life if he wants to turn pro and not go to college that is up to him. I have made choices in life that i sometimes look back and think that might not have been the best choice. I also think that some of those choices good and bad have made me the person i am today. Life is short and you only get one chance so why not go for it. I belive that if its his dream to go pro then he needs to go for it. He is only 16 alot can happen from now until he graduates high school. My only advice would be to make sure he keeps his amatuer status so if he decides he wants to go to college in a year and a half he will still have that option. I think at 18 he will have a better idea of what path he wants to take. Whatever path Deit chooses he will always have my support!
honestly the Baughman's need to start speaking with players who have chosen to go straight pro or one year and out for college.
Ask Donald Young how tough it was to grind it out in the Satellites, Futures, and Challengers to make Pro Level and then get knocked back down again. Ask Britton what it is like to travel to every little country trying to make a few bucks, Kosakowski, and now Krueger and the list goes one. Some advice from his peers might be the best thing for him to make a decision.
Should he go pro? Let him and his dad decide, if he makes it great, if he fails I guess the haters will get to cheer.
Ask Donald Young how tough it was to grind it out in the Satellites, Futures, and Challengers to make Pro Level and then get knocked back down again. Ask Britton what it is like to travel to every little country trying to make a few bucks, Kosakowski, and now Krueger and the list goes one. Some advice from his peers might be the best thing for him to make a decision.
Should he go pro? Let him and his dad decide, if he makes it great, if he fails I guess the haters will get to cheer.
Agreed certain majors and schools have a higher placement rate. Agreed, college is a safe path. No debate there.
I produced the number, that's out there. You've provided no facts other than personal opinion and experience. It's your turn, you debunk it. I'm open to that.
All I'm saying is let the kid and his family follow their own path. They know the pitfalls, they know what it's going to take. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Good luck to them.
BTW. Thanks for the insult. I know, I'm welcome. Great guy you are mikej.
Misterbill
Semi-Pro
I'm looking over my draw here and can't see any haters entered. Can someone point them out to me?
All I see are supporters.......some of whom think the best thing is to go pro and others who think the best thing is to go to college.
What's goin' on........if you're not with me, you hate me?
I hear you Jason. I think they have, and they are undeterred. Making it as a pro in any sport is a longshot. They know that but appear to be going for it. At this point those bashing them (not you) over and over for as long as it's gone on has become old. I say let them do what they want.
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