Chris: gut as cross

Boricua · Dec 21, 2012

Hi! I have been using soft copolys in the 40s tension. But, maybe I will experiment with gut crosses. I

1)Is there a big difference between using Pacific Classic gut and VS gut as a cross string?

2)If I use 4g full bed at 46 then if I use 4g mains/gut crosses what tension would you suggest?

3) Finally, is Babolat Nvy very different to gut as a cross string?

mikeler · Dec 21, 2012

Gut is a waste of money as a cross. Just use a mid priced multi.

Boricua · Dec 21, 2012

mikeler said:
Gut is a waste of money as a cross. Just use a mid priced multi.

Yes I was thinking of using Babolat Nvy as a cross. But, some people say gut crosses are superior to multi or synthetic gut crosses. But, gut crosses are very expensive in the long run, more so when poly dies fast and one has to cut the strings. I know you use Genesis Thunderblast as a cross. May give it a try, wish they sold it in TW.

Also, I tried Excel as a cross one time and I did not like the feeling I got. Cant describe it really but it seemed power was missing and it took away the crispness of the poly main.

diredesire · Dec 21, 2012

Boricua said:
Yes I was thinking of using Babolat Nvy as a cross. But, some people say gut crosses are superior to multi or synthetic gut crosses. But, gut crosses are very expensive in the long run, more so when poly dies fast and one has to cut the strings. I know you use Genesis Thunderblast as a cross. May give it a try, wish they sold it in TW.

Also, I tried Excel as a cross one time and I did not like the feeling I got. Cant describe it really but it seemed power was missing and it took away the crispness of the poly main.

I disagree that multis should be used in place of gut. They shred, and they shred VERY quickly, depending on what you choose. IMHO, gut (if cared for properly) will outlast most any high (enough) end multi that would qualify as a substitute. If anything, I'd use a solid core synthetic, they suffer less from the "floppy" phenomenon that you're describing, but you lose out on the resiliency as you do with all non-gut crosses. You could also try something like a polyolefin(e) ribbon construction string, like the old style isospeed strings, or head rip control. They're durable, but still (technically) multi construction. I'd give gut a shot, though, to see what you're missing, but I do agree that gut solely in a cross is NOT the most cost effective way to do it. You gain less benefits, but it's still hard to replace. It's up to you to decide whether or not it's worth it, to you.

Boricua · Dec 21, 2012

diredesire said:
I disagree that multis should be used in place of gut. They shred, and they shred VERY quickly, depending on what you choose. IMHO, gut (if cared for properly) will outlast most any high (enough) end multi that would qualify as a substitute. If anything, I'd use a solid core synthetic, they suffer less from the "floppy" phenomenon that you're describing, but you lose out on the resiliency as you do with all non-gut crosses. You could also try something like a polyolefin(e) ribbon construction string, like the old style isospeed strings, or head rip control. They're durable, but still (technically) multi construction. I'd give gut a shot, though, to see what you're missing, but I do agree that gut solely in a cross is NOT the most cost effective way to do it. You gain less benefits, but it's still hard to replace. It's up to you to decide whether or not it's worth it, to you.

I will try next week full Luxilon 4g at 46 in a 2012 Aeroprodrive. Depending on how it feels, I could try 4g/gut mains.

Have you used Pacific Classic Gut and VS gut a crosses? Are they very different as a cross string?

mikeler · Dec 21, 2012

diredesire said:
I disagree that multis should be used in place of gut. They shred, and they shred VERY quickly, depending on what you choose. IMHO, gut (if cared for properly) will outlast most any high (enough) end multi that would qualify as a substitute. If anything, I'd use a solid core synthetic, they suffer less from the "floppy" phenomenon that you're describing, but you lose out on the resiliency as you do with all non-gut crosses. You could also try something like a polyolefin(e) ribbon construction string, like the old style isospeed strings, or head rip control. They're durable, but still (technically) multi construction. I'd give gut a shot, though, to see what you're missing, but I do agree that gut solely in a cross is NOT the most cost effective way to do it. You gain less benefits, but it's still hard to replace. It's up to you to decide whether or not it's worth it, to you.

Gut is only marginally better than Thunder Blast as a cross and much more $$$. It last almost as long for me too.

TW Staff · Dec 21, 2012

Gut, even as a cross string, is going to offer a different feel and response to a multi. If you can feel the difference, and like it, then gut is worth the investment. If you can't or don't, then go with a multi and save! Tecnifibre E-Matrix is a great budget option as a cross with a poly.

Expect the Pacific to feel a little crisper. VS feels more dampened to me (until the coating wears off).

I would drop 2-3lbs with the addition of gut as a cross.

I have never tried N.Vy as a cross string, but you are getting away from multis and even further from gut with its solid core.

Chris, TW

diredesire · Dec 21, 2012

mikeler said:
Gut is only marginally better than Thunder Blast as a cross and much more $$$. It last almost as long for me too.

This entirely depends on your definition of "marginal," does it not? Like I said, if you can justify the cost, it's not easy to replace it as a cross with something else. I'm not disagreeing with you, man. Things like strings are very subjective.

I'd also recommend against E-matrix as a cross, it used to be more on par with something like Wilson Sensation in terms of durability, but I find that when crossed with polys, it'll only exaggerate the shredding. JMHO

mikeler · Dec 21, 2012

TW Staff said:
Gut, even as a cross string, is going to offer a different feel and response to a multi. If you can feel the difference, and like it, then gut is worth the investment. If you can't or don't, then go with a multi and save! Tecnifibre E-Matrix is a great budget option as a cross with a poly.

Expect the Pacific to feel a little crisper. VS feels more dampened to me (until the coating wears off).

I would drop 2-3lbs with the addition of gut as a cross.

I have never tried N.Vy as a cross string, but you are getting away from multis and even further from gut with its solid core.

Chris, TW

diredesire said:
This entirely depends on your definition of "marginal," does it not? Like I said, if you can justify the cost, it's not easy to replace it as a cross with something else. I'm not disagreeing with you, man. Things like strings are very subjective.

I'd also recommend against E-matrix as a cross, it used to be more on par with something like Wilson Sensation in terms of durability, but I find that when crossed with polys, it'll only exaggerate the shredding. JMHO

Until both you try the Thunder Blast (which may be never since you don't sell it), not worth arguing about. Are gut crosses better? Yes. If money is no object and you want the best cross to balance out poly mains, you can't beat gut.

My only point is that the main strings contribute most of the feel to the stringbed which I think we can all agree on. So gut mains versus multi mains are going to feel different for sure. In the crosses, the difference is much harder to determine but the gut is still nicer.

diredesire · Dec 22, 2012

mikeler said:
Until both you try the Thunder Blast (which may be never since you don't sell it), not worth arguing about. Are gut crosses better? Yes. If money is no object and you want the best cross to balance out poly mains, you can't beat gut.

My only point is that the main strings contribute most of the feel to the stringbed which I think we can all agree on. So gut mains versus multi mains are going to feel different for sure. In the crosses, the difference is much harder to determine but the gut is still nicer.

Sounds like no one's arguing if we're saying exactly the same thing

Say Chi Sin Lo · Dec 22, 2012

Of course, to some degree, having gut as the crosses have benefits even compared to your favorite multi. But the quesetion is, just how much more? And is it worth the substantial price difference?

Honestly, gut vs. your favorite multi in the crosses will produce slim to negligible difference. I'm not about to spend $10-$30 more on a pack of strings if I barely notice the difference

mikeler · Dec 22, 2012

Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Of course, to some degree, having gut as the crosses have benefits even compared to your favorite multi. But the quesetion is, just how much more? And is it worth the substantial price difference?

Honestly, gut vs. your favorite multi in the crosses will produce slim to negligible difference. I'm not about to spend $10-$30 more on a pack of strings if I barely notice the difference

Yeppers...

Tonyr1967 · May 7, 2013

OP - did you ever go the 4G/Gut route?

Interested to see how you found it.

I've picked up a few sets of gut and interested to see how it varies from my normal Gut/4G setup

Lukhas · May 7, 2013

Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Of course, to some degree, having gut as the crosses have benefits even compared to your favorite multi. But the quesetion is, just how much more? And is it worth the substantial price difference?

Honestly, gut vs. your favorite multi in the crosses will produce slim to negligible difference. I'm not about to spend $10-$30 more on a pack of strings if I barely notice the difference

Quoted for emphasis. Not that gut crosses is forbidden, Murray does it. But it's a waste.

kabrac · May 7, 2013

I tried hybrids of both gut in the mains and poly crosses and poly mains and gut crosses. I can still feel the gut when used as a cross string. I don't see how people think it's a waste. When I did gut mains, the mains broke from sliding against the poly cross. To me, that is a waste. It lasts longer when I use the gut as a cross and it helps soften the stringbed. But, what feels good to me, may not feel good to someone else. I respect what others like, but to me gut mains is a waste because if you hit the ball hard gut mains will break. Why I like poly mains is that the poly doesn't move much or either it returns to it's original straight position. With gut mains, its just like cutting wood with a saw. The poly cross just saws away at the gut mains, but to each their own.

Lukhas · May 7, 2013

^The point being that many, many multis help soften the stringbed for much less money than gut, if that's what is wanted.

Tonyr1967 · May 8, 2013

Well - I gave poly/gut a whirl. Used bhb7... And started to really shred the gut in an hour - not broken yet, but nearly there. Some deep notches and fraying and had to sort straightening the strings in 30 mins.

The spin was good, very good and the gut feel was still there albeit much less than with gut/poly.

I think I will give it another go with 4g ; should be a little less harsh on the gut crosses.

mikeler · May 9, 2013

Tonyr1967 said:
Well - I gave poly/gut a whirl. Used bhb7... And started to really shred the gut in an hour - not broken yet, but nearly there. Some deep notches and fraying and had to sort straightening the strings in 30 mins.

The spin was good, very good and the gut feel was still there albeit much less than with gut/poly.

I think I will give it another go with 4g ; should be a little less harsh on the gut crosses.

Shaped poly mains love to eat gut crosses for breakfast!

spinovic · May 9, 2013

mikeler said:
Shaped poly mains love to eat gut crosses for breakfast!

Yeah, I imagine it would. I've never tried it, but if I ever do, I'll be using something like Sonic Pro in the hybrid. Something round and smooth.

Tonyr1967 · May 11, 2013

mikeler said:
Shaped poly mains love to eat gut crosses for breakfast!

Ain't that the truth - lol

Tonyr1967 · May 11, 2013

Now strung one stick in 4g/gut and the other in gut/4g.

My findings (for what they are worth)

4g mains offers more spin, less power and less feel. Gut wear is more, which surprised me.

Gut main, is more powerful and has much better feel. Spin is great but not as good as the poly main.

I've played with gut mains for a long time and love the setup. A poly/gut hybrid is new to me and I thought it wouldn't compare...but it does. I'm still not sure which setup I prefer as I love both for different reasons.

Chris: gut as cross

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