Doubles GOAT ?

robow7

robow7

Professional
Now that the Bryan brothers have amassed the most grand slam trophies (over taking Newk and Roche), the most all time tourney wins in the Open Era, and 300+ weeks at #1, does this make them the GOAT of doubles teams or does anyone care at this point since the best singles players no longer participate in dubs?
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
I'll throw out a few doubles great teams.
McEnroe/Fleming
Newcombe/Roche
Rosewall/Hoad
Sedgman/McGregor
Richard Norris Williams/Vinnie Richards
Bromwich/Quist
Budge/Mako
Hewitt/Mcmillan
Bryan brothers
 
S

slowfox

Professional
I say Mac/Fleming. Mac maintained a high level in doubles and singles simultaneously. As far as I know the BBros just play dubs.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
robow7 said:
Now that the Bryan brothers have amassed the most grand slam trophies (over taking Newk and Roche), the most all time tourney wins in the Open Era, and 300+ weeks at #1, does this make them the GOAT of doubles teams or does anyone care at this point since the best singles players no longer participate in dubs?
Click to expand...

robow7, We cannot compare a Newcombe-Roche team with Bryan-Bryan because, as you say, nowadays the best players don't play doubles anymore.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
pc1 said:
I'll throw out a few doubles great teams.
McEnroe/Fleming
Newcombe/Roche
Rosewall/Hoad
Sedgman/McGregor
Richard Norris Williams/Vinnie Richards
Bromwich/Quist
Budge/Mako
Hewitt/Mcmillan
Bryan brothers
Click to expand...

pc1, I would add Borotra/Brugnon, Allison/van Ryn, Lott/Stoefen, Seixas/Trabert, Hewitt/Stolle, Emerson/Stolle, Emerson/Laver, Woodbridge/Woodforde.

My vote goes to Hoad/Rosewall: They won 15 doubles majors despite of tough competition (Seixas/Trabert, Hartwig/Rose, Buchholz/Laver).

The most successful doubles players should be Rosewall (24 doubles majors won) and Emerson (172 doubles tournaments won)...
 
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N

Nadal_Power

Semi-Pro
I think they for sure are best doubles of Open era, its hard to judge for all time cause they don't play singles

McEnroe won single/double title in more than 30 tournaments, by far the best in Open era
 
vwfye

vwfye

Semi-Pro
Who was the best doubles team in the open era? Mac and whoever he chose to partner with...
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
BobbyOne said:
pc1, I would add Borotra/Brugnon, Allison/van Ryn, Lott/Stoefen, Seixas/Trabert, Hewitt/Stolle, Emerson/Stolle, Emerson/Laver, Woodbridge/Woodforde.

My vote goes to Hoad/Rosewall: They won 15 doubles majors despite of tough competition (Seixas/Trabert, Hartwig/Rose, Buchholz/Laver).

The most successful doubles players should be Rosewall (24 doubles majors won) and Emerson (172 doubles tournaments won)...
Click to expand...

Great list.I´d say 80% of the best teams are Australian.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
vwfye said:
Who was the best doubles team in the open era? Mac and whoever he chose to partner with...
Click to expand...

John Newcombe and Tony Roche, in a good day, were nearly unbeatable.

Fleming/Mc and Hewitt/Mc Millan come next.

Woodies were also excelent.

other great combos, from 1970 on:

Lutz-Smith,Fibak-Okker, Riessen-Stewart ( and Riessen-Okker), Gottfried-Ramirez,Alexander-Dent,Gunthardt-Taroczy,Connors-Nastase,Curren-Denton, Mc Namara-Mc namee ( who won two wimblies over Fleming and Mac ¡¡¡ ), Edmondson-Stewart,Edberg-Jarryd, Fitzgerald-Jarryd, Flach-Seguso, leconte/Forget-Noah, Mecir-Smid ( a great team), Pugh-Leach, Lozano-Witskedt...
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
NadalDramaQueen said:
:lol:



You would include Federer/Wawrinka as two of the best right? For their triumph over the Bryans? :lol:
Click to expand...

NadalDramaQueen, Instead of being nasty you should explain me why Rosewall's 24 major doubles titles are not the top. Learn history (but not from Phoenix...)!
 
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W

Wolbo

Rookie
kiki said:
other great combos, from 1970 on:

Lutz-Smith,Fibak-Okker, Riessen-Stewart ( and Riessen-Okker), Gottfried-Ramirez,Alexander-Dent,Gunthardt-Taroczy,Connors-Nastase,Curren-Denton, Mc Namara-Mc namee ( who won two wimblies over Fleming and Mac ¡¡¡ ), Edmondson-Stewart,Edberg-Jarryd, Fitzgerald-Jarryd, Flach-Seguso, leconte/Forget-Noah, Mecir-Smid ( a great team), Pugh-Leach, Lozano-Witskedt...
Click to expand...
+ Haarhuis (54 doubles titles) / Eltingh (44 doubles titles)
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Phoenix1983 said:
You are the troll for suggesting that Rosewall is not only singles GOAT, but also doubles GOAT! :)
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Phoenix, I can blame you easily for denying that Rosewall won the most doubles majors. Who else????? Do you also doubt that Laver won four Wimbledons and that the Empire State Building stands in New York?. Okay, you are free to do that but please stop insulting me! It's not gentleman-like.....

Have you overlooked that I also mentioned Emerson for the best?
 
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pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Guys,

I'm not sure if Rosewall is the singles or doubles GOAT but honestly if he isn't, he isn't that far off.

Lots of great doubles players like McEnroe, Rosewall, Emerson, Newcombe, Hewitt just over the last few decades.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
pc1 said:
Guys,

I'm not sure if Rosewall is the singles or doubles GOAT but honestly if he isn't, he isn't that far off.

Lots of great doubles players like McEnroe, Rosewall, Emerson, Newcombe, Hewitt just over the last few decades.
Click to expand...

Thanks, pc1 for this support. Rosewall's number of 24 doubles majors is really impressive. He should be ranked as a GOAT candidate. He won those titles with 7 partners: Hoad, Stolle, Gonzalez, Laver, Ralston, Anderson and Davidson. At Wembley Muscles won seven doubles titles.
 
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kiki

kiki

Banned
Wolbo said:
+ Haarhuis (54 doubles titles) / Eltingh (44 doubles titles)
Click to expand...

that is right.I forgot them.

A great doubles team was also Hlasek-Forget.

On clay, I´d also mention Gildemeister/Gomez and Bertolucci/Panatta and later on, Casal/sanchez

There were guys that succeded with many different partners, but never changed side.Rosewall,Emerson,Stolle,Okker,Fibak,Edmondson,Jarryd,Fitzegerald,Witskedt,Forget...
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
BobbyOne said:
kiki, Yes, the Aussies were awesome in doubles. I even omitted Rosewall/Stolle, Alexander/Dent and Case/Masters.
Click to expand...

Loved Rosewall-Stolle.The short guy with the genious brains and the lanky, adaptable, big server and tall Stolle.Great contrast.

The two teams I really would have love to see are Bromwich-Quist and Mc Gregor-Sedgman.

Mervyn Rose and Lewis Hoad were also great with different teammates.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
what about ladies?

Many remember the great teams like Navy and Shriver/King, Casals and King/Evert, Stove and Turnbull, Jordan and Smith.I recall also Hingis and Kurnikova as well as the Williamses, the last two great teams.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
Loved Rosewall-Stolle.The short guy with the genious brains and the lanky, adaptable, big server and tall Stolle.Great contrast.

The two teams I really would have love to see are Bromwich-Quist and Mc Gregor-Sedgman.

Mervyn Rose and Lewis Hoad were also great with different teammates.
Click to expand...

kiki, Yes, Stolle was adaptable: He made a great duo with Hewitt, then with Emerson, then with Laver in 1967 as a pro and at last with Rosewall. Four great doubles.

Rose played with Hartwig and Don Candy, Hoad played of course with Rosewall, also with Hartwig and Trabert.

Interesting: Hoad won the French Pro doubles seven times in a row.
 
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D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
BobbyOne said:
kiki, Yes, Stolle was adaptable: He made a great duo with Hewitt, then with Emerson, then with Laver in 1967 as a pro and at last with Rosewall. Four great doubles.

Rose played with Hartwig and Don Candy, Hoad played of course with Rosewall, also with Hartwig and Trabert.

Interesting: Hoad won the French Pro doubles seven times in a row.
Click to expand...

Hoad had good results on clay.
In 1972, in the Italian Open doubles final, Hoad and Frew McMillan led Nastase/Tiriac two sets to love, but eventually lost the match, uncompleted by darkness.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Dan Lobb said:
Hoad had good results on clay.
In 1972, in the Italian Open doubles final, Hoad and Frew McMillan led Nastase/Tiriac two sets to love, but eventually lost the match, uncompleted by darkness.
Click to expand...

Dan, Please explain how they lost a match which was uncompleted. No irony intended.
 
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pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Actually when you think about it Rosewall has the perfect strokes for doubles. His serve was fine but not overpowering but in doubles he could serve and come in with abandon because he's covering half the court. His volley was very strong, among the best in history. He had a super return. His overhead was top notch. He was consistent and almost never off. And like all top doubles players, he knew how to play the angles.

I think McEnroe is clearly the best since the late 1970's and perhaps of all time along with a few others.
 
B

BTURNER

Legend
kiki said:
what about ladies?

Many remember the great teams like Navy and Shriver/King, Casals and King/Evert, Stove and Turnbull, Jordan and Smith.I recall also Hingis and Kurnikova as well as the Williamses, the last two great teams.
Click to expand...

Lets replace Evert with Gigi Fernandez who won twice as many doubles titles at 69, and

Wiki ...Fernández won a non-calendar year doubles Grand Slam with 17 Grand Slam women's doubles title – six French Open, five US Open, four Wimbledon, and two Australian Open winning at least one Grand Slam title every year from 1988–1997, except 1989, and for three straight years winning three of the four Grand Slam doubles titles in the same year (1992–1994). She won 14 of her 17 Grand Slam titles partnering Natasha Zvereva; their partnership is the second most successful doubles pair in Grand Slam history after Martina Navratilova and Pam Shriver in the Open era.[4]...

Evert won....drumrole please....3.
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
BobbyOne said:
Dan, Please explain how they lost a match which was uncompleted. No irony intended.
Click to expand...

Hoad and McMillan were upset about the strange on-court antics of Nastase and Tiriac, who managed to disrupt the progress of the match.
At 5 to 3 in the fifth set, darkness was beginning to interfere with the match, so the umpire halted play and declared the Rumanians the winners.
Yes, very strange.
But, the match was in Italy, and the Rumanians were like the home players, the crowd favourites.
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
pc1 said:
Actually when you think about it Rosewall has the perfect strokes for doubles. His serve was fine but not overpowering but in doubles he could serve and come in with abandon because he's covering half the court. His volley was very strong, among the best in history. He had a super return. His overhead was top notch. He was consistent and almost never off. And like all top doubles players, he knew how to play the angles.

I think McEnroe is clearly the best since the late 1970's and perhaps of all time along with a few others.
Click to expand...

Frew McMillan, like Laver, rated Hoad's volleys as the best ever, with the minimum of motion, maximum power, sharp angles.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
BobbyOne said:
robow7, We cannot compare a Newcombe-Roche team with Bryan-Bryan because, as you say, nowadays the best players don't play doubles anymore.
Click to expand...

The best single players doesn't necessary means they will also be the best players in double. While the Bryan brothers aren't that good in single, but no top singles are going to beat them. It's not just about skills, but good team player, good chemistry, communication. If you insinuating today's double are weak(sigh), you're wrong.
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
TMF said:
The best single players doesn't necessary means they will also be the best players in double. While the Bryan brothers aren't that good in single, but no top singles are going to beat them. It's not just about skills, but good team player, good chemistry, communication. If you insinuating today's double are weak(sigh), you're wrong.
Click to expand...

Team play, chemistry, communication? Sounds like you are referring to Hoad/Rosewall, who won 15 major doubles titles, more than the Bryans.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Dan Lobb said:
Hoad had good results on clay.
In 1972, in the Italian Open doubles final, Hoad and Frew McMillan led Nastase/Tiriac two sets to love, but eventually lost the match, uncompleted by darkness.
Click to expand...

Lew&Frew: fantastic mixture of power&finesse
Same as Hoad&Santana.They beat Laver&Gimeno, great line up
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
BobbyOne said:
kiki, Yes, Stolle was adaptable: He made a great duo with Hewitt, then with Emerson, then with Laver in 1967 as a pro and at last with Rosewall. Four great doubles.

Rose played with Hartwig and Don Candy, Hoad played of course with Rosewall, also with Hartwig and Trabert.

Interesting: Hoad won the French Pro doubles seven times in a row.
Click to expand...

What about Fraser? He and Hoad, Cooper or Emmo
Even second class aussies were great:Fletch,Owen and later Marks,Eddo,Case ( one of the finest FH volleys. I saw), Masters ( very talented),Alexander,Dent,greckat Kim Warwick, who ubderachieved big time and solid Fitzgie
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
pc1 said:
Actually when you think about it Rosewall has the perfect strokes for doubles. His serve was fine but not overpowering but in doubles he could serve and come in with abandon because he's covering half the court. His volley was very strong, among the best in history. He had a super return. His overhead was top notch. He was consistent and almost never off. And like all top doubles players, he knew how to play the angles.

I think McEnroe is clearly the best since the late 1970's and perhaps of all time along with a few others.
Click to expand...

Rosewall bh return at the oncoming guy's feet were half point won
See that a lot
Stolle would just put the volley away
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Never forget underrated McNamacs:
A team able to beat Mac&Flambo twice at a Wimbledon final is an all time great
Just behind the two americans for the whole 80
Unfortunately Edberg and Jarryd ( HI SusanDK) did not play long time
They were the perfect team and their peak would have been unreal
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
TMF said:
You're comparing apples to oranges. Hoad/Rosewall did not win 15 grand slam doubles, but the B Brothers won 13(that's the record).
Click to expand...

TMF, you obviously do not consider pro majors to be major tournaments.
This is a highly debatable position you have chosen to take.
Probably not a sensible one.
 
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