he means to manually put supination in your motion before you swing up thereby supposedly giving more pronation...
which is a bad idea that nobody does and will only tighten up your arm and decrease consistency due to numerous factors
i think OP is talking about supination at the drop, not in trophy position
The major motion of the serve is Internal Shoulder Rotation (ISR). To use it the most effective way we should apply External Shoulder Rotation (ESR) as much as possible. Then ISR rotates the racquet in “horizontal” plane around 90°. Pros usually use the same angular amount of ISR (90°) because it is very difficult to control.seems much easier to get a whip effect this way.... but is there a concern for injury here?.... i.e. the 'Tommy John' surgery.
It is less ISR. Usually armatures use this approach to hit slice, because they don’t know how to use wrist ulnar deviation to hit powerful slice serve. Instead they desynchronize ISR (“horizontal plane”) and arm rotation in “vertical” plane.Is it supination, or is it LESS PRONATION, that allows a rightie spin serve to go more to the left.
Btw, forearm supination has nothing to do with whip effect.
They also use the same toss for different direction of the particular type of serve. How are they able to change ball outgoing direction? IMO the easiest way could be forearm supination. If you want to hit to the right, there would be a little or no forearm supination. If you hit to the left, there should be considerable forearm supination.
Thus, we can use forearm supination as some kind of very good tool to control the direction of movement of the ball.
Funny thing that....
My Dad was a 4th degree black, from SouthernChina.
He taught us all to hit like that, short belly punches. He also said it makes no difference if the palm faces up, sideways, or down at it's initiation. The palm up is more to do with integrating TaiChi and flow to the overall ready position than is needed for the actual punch.
As usual you produce a lot of emotions but zero proof.no way. nobody uses supination to control the direction of the ball.
i am talking about supination at the racket drop... so when you swing up, there is pressure building up in the forearm to make it pronate.
this is like the martial artist throwing in a waist high punch, he'd start with the fist facing the sky... so he throws the punch and the pressure builds up in the forearm to make it pronate... when he hits the target, the palm faces the ground if he opens the fist.
As usual you produce a lot of emotions but zero proof.
There is example for you, ITF Coaches Education Program, (Biomechanical principles for the serve in tennis, 2007) stated, “Pronation of forearm does not gives power but realigns the racket face”. See please http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_24976_original.PDF.
Thus forearm pronation/supination is responsible for ball direction.
You should read serious literature or made your own research before you state something about “nobody”. :evil:
According to all scientific researches pros use forearm pronation/supination exclusively for proper racquet orientation during contact.
Do you agree that forearm pronation can control racket orientation - thus the ball direction?The paper you provided talk about how pronation does not give power. It does not mention anything about 'supination used for controlling ball direction". That's your own faulty conclusion. Surprising you could claim this as "proof". I thought you were a physicist.
Do you agree that forearm pronation can control racket orientation - thus the ball direction?
At the racquet drop position the plane of the racquet string bed defines direction of the arm swing in “perpendicular” plane. ISR rotates 90°, then these two motions would be synchronized and produce maximum of the RHS.Wait how exactly do you supinate during an overhead??
I asked you the simplest possible question. I ask you again. Do you agree that forearm pronation can control racket orientation - thus the ball direction? :twisted:We are talking about supination, not pronation.
Are you aware that you don't need to supinate in order to pronate? They are 2 separate movements. The picture you gave of Henin is not even a 'standard' overhead. It looks like she was lobbed effectively and had to back up and is not in ideal position and hitting while backing up and is getting the racquet on it any way possible.
I'm still waiting for any reference that says 'ball direction is controlled by supination'. It should be easy to find since you said "according to all scientific research...". Just show me one.
I asked you the simplest possible question. I ask you again. Do you agree that forearm pronation can control racket orientation - thus the ball direction? :twisted:
I am really confused by all the technical jargon. Can someone explain, perhaps in simpler terms, what it is I need to do?
McEnroe's serve is kinda like that. Check it out. Supinated at trophy. And you can practice pronation using just shoulder and arm this way. keep your elbow at shoulder level though.
Do you have any pics of what this looks like? I'd like to try it.
check tube for mc's serve and go frame by frame and see at or near trophy his racquet is pointing not up but straight back. I think such technique is more suited to much heavier racquets.
my serve is on the cusp also lol...
that Tomaz guy's minimum effort drill helped... now it feels like a relaxed throw, with the edge (or even the backside slightly) addressing the ball at the racket drop... and the snap will happen.
now i just need to put the toss in the right spot lol.
You are mostly talking about maximization of power of the serve. Let’s assume you can hit 150 mph serve and you are very happy about that. Then I ask you, what is the best way to control azimuth direction of the ball?toly thanks for the pictures....
leaning with cheetah on this one ...... the ball direction is controlled by timing the pronation right? FYB has a clip about kick serve that mentioned this, which makes sense to me.
to me supination is really just a move to put some pressure on the forearm to make it snap over faster, if anything, i think supination helps hitting to the RIGHT...... seemingly to me i can pronate faster with the 'loaded arm'
I suggested we should use forearm pronation/supination for direction control and ESR for speed of the ball.
Forearm pronation and supination have reflection symmetry. If forearm pronation can control racquet orientation then it is absolutely obvious that forearm supination can do the same.no you said 'supination'. also in a previous thread you said "we should not use pronation in the serve. we should instead use supination'.
i'm still waiting for the scientific research that states supination is used to control the direction of the ball.
I’m old russian man and English definitely doesn’t like me. So, you tell me please what is wrong with this word.I still want to know what defines a player as "delicate".
Forearm pronation and supination have reflection symmetry. If forearm pronation can control racquet orientation then it is absolutely obvious that forearm supination can do the same.
About forearm pronation and ESR scientific articles see corresponding Chas Tennis posts.
I’m old russian man and English definitely doesn’t like me. So, you tell me please what is wrong with this word.