Connors v Borg 1978 and the no.1 ranking
- Thread starter Xavier G
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kiki
Banned
Mc Namara didn' t play or look like Wilander at all
He was more like Lendl or Connors with far better volleys than both
Good player to look at but like great Gene Mayer, destroyed by injuries
Hoad,Roche,Orantes,Mayer and Mc Namara are the five more unfortunated players of modern times
Ferrero could make it six
Mustard
Bionic Poster
I meant that McNamara beat a young Wilander a lot, 4 times in the first year of Wilander's career, if I remember correctly.
kiki
Banned
Sorry my bad
I just do not recall that but I recall his very polemichal final st Rotterdam 83 against Vilas
McNamara was a good clay courter who learned the game at Southern France. I recall a fine 4-set win in the Hamburg final around 1980 against Connors in a rain-soaked clay court match, going over two days. Macca buried Connors with low slice backhands to Connors' forehand, which died on the slow damp court. Jimbo couldn't get pace, and began to make more and more errors. Macca imo was the last clay specialist, who played only slice on the backhand - alongside Spains Juan Aguilera, who once buried Becker in a similar way in a Hamburg final.
borg number one
Legend
Peter McNamara won the '82 Wimbledon doubles title with Paul McNamara. They beat Fleming and Mcenroe in the final 6-3, 6-2.
Urban, that Hamburg final against Connors on clay was in 1981. He won 5 singles titles, including three on clay and two on carpet. He beat Lendl in the Belgium final on carpet in 1983. I think he used a Prince Woodie. That seemed like a good doubles frame for a lot of players back then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oq47lcPh2I
Urban, that Hamburg final against Connors on clay was in 1981. He won 5 singles titles, including three on clay and two on carpet. He beat Lendl in the Belgium final on carpet in 1983. I think he used a Prince Woodie. That seemed like a good doubles frame for a lot of players back then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oq47lcPh2I
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kiki
Banned
I also loved Gene mayer.His drop shots rank at the same if not superior level to the classics Drobny,Orantes,Pietrangeli,Nastase,Panatta and Nastase.The big big difference is that he was deadly even on a fast, medium bouncing indoor carpet court.he disguissed the stroke extremely well given that he played both shots (FH and BH) two handed.Even if you knew he was just doing that drop shot, you just kept pinned at the baseline.never seen anybody do that again, I repeat, on a fast indoor or hard court.
Unfortunately for him, his body never held up, in spite of three or four great seasons, from 1979 till 1983.Great touch at the net, too.He was the guy that made popular the ultrasized Prince racket.Seen him beating Borg,Lendl and other great players live.One of my faves.
Unfortunately for him, his body never held up, in spite of three or four great seasons, from 1979 till 1983.Great touch at the net, too.He was the guy that made popular the ultrasized Prince racket.Seen him beating Borg,Lendl and other great players live.One of my faves.
kiki, It's good to remember that super talented player.
kiki
Banned
kiki, If you are interested: G. Mayer was 2:2 against Rosewall.
CyBorg
Legend
Eh, he didn't seem any worse a player in the early 80s than he was in the mid-70s.
There is just no evidence that Connors would ever be anything special on red clay.
kiki
Banned
didn´t imagine they ever had the opportunity to play against each other.It just proves how great Rosewall longetivity was.
bluegrasser
Hall of Fame
True, red clay, but never say never, he did win the USO on har tru..
CyBorg
Legend
Vastly different bounces and speed.
At 38, he took Chang to 5 sets...Chang was 2yrs away from his FO title and Connors had him absolutely befuddled. On a good day, Connor was very capable on the surface, particularly if it was hot and dry (rather than damp and wet). So, I think in the mid 70's he would've had a decent shot at winning it. 74, 75, even 76, before Borg really became dominant. Again, there were a lot of other good European players, but Jimmy played tough against all of them in those days. And, sure Har-Tru is not red clay, but he had a very respectable record on the surface.
jrepac, I totally agree.
kiki
Banned
Connors is likely the best ever har truer
Beat Borg twice at F Hills losing just one set
Beat Vilas in straights at 76 USO SF and beat him again at 79 Indianapolis final
Beat Lendl and Rosewall in 2 North Conway F
In 79 Indy he also beat Young Lendl in Qf and Jose Higueras in sf while Higueras had the second best cc record that yr and was one of best cc players for years
Also beat likes of Dibbs or Solly on har tru
Only Orantes was very hard for him not only at 75 Uso but also at Indy 77 finals with Orantes winning 6-1 6-3
On Euro clay he and Vilas ahared the title at NC 81 ( match called out by rain and never played) and lost the Hamburg 81 final against Mc Namara
He could be a FO winnee but not a granted one, from 74 to 76
Beat Borg twice at F Hills losing just one set
Beat Vilas in straights at 76 USO SF and beat him again at 79 Indianapolis final
Beat Lendl and Rosewall in 2 North Conway F
In 79 Indy he also beat Young Lendl in Qf and Jose Higueras in sf while Higueras had the second best cc record that yr and was one of best cc players for years
Also beat likes of Dibbs or Solly on har tru
Only Orantes was very hard for him not only at 75 Uso but also at Indy 77 finals with Orantes winning 6-1 6-3
On Euro clay he and Vilas ahared the title at NC 81 ( match called out by rain and never played) and lost the Hamburg 81 final against Mc Namara
He could be a FO winnee but not a granted one, from 74 to 76
kiki, interesting list. We should also mention that Jimbo also won the US Clay three times: 1974 against Borg, 1976 against Fibak and 1978 against Higueras.
was that also on Har Tru?
He was no slacker on the surface clearly. Would've been easier to judge his overall ability on clay if he had played more of the European clay circuit, during his prime, but he pretty much avoided it until his elder years.
Marched to the beat of his own drummer, as always.
jrepac, Yes I think it was Har-Tru.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
It was.....
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borg number one
Legend
As far as green clay/har tru/rubico courts, Borg and Connors faced off three times in the final of the Pepsi Grand Slam. That was a big money 4 man event played from 1976-1980 in Florida. See these videos from 1977 and 1979 below of Borg vs. Connors on rubico. Borg won that title 4 times, beating Connors three times in the final there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMx--E0OhY (1979 final. Thanks Krosero.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmQ08pipOjo (1977 final)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMx--E0OhY (1979 final. Thanks Krosero.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmQ08pipOjo (1977 final)
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kiki
Banned
True, he owned Indy which was the official US Clay Court Championship and therefore he scored three big wins over Borg on US har tru when Borg had already stablished himself as the dominating force on european clay
abmk
Bionic Poster
not true, jimmy dominated Borg on all surfaces till 76 ... the tide turned in 77
jimmy even defeated borg on red clay in 74
pepsi though an exo was a prestigious one at that time , their competitive match in 77 there was a turning point in their rivalry ... the next time they met there, borg dominated him ....
North Conway was on red clay.
kiki
Banned
More in Connors favour then
"How amazing Borg dominated on grass but lost Always on clay
"
Definitely not true they never met once on red clay when borg was at his peak say from end of 1976 onwards ,and part of that reason is at french open connors could not even reach final in 1979,80 or 81 to challend borg.
Even on the American type clay which played much faster once we reached 1977 borg started to dominate jimmy on that surace also beating him 3 times in a row at the pepsi grand slam.There is no dobt that i think jimmy may have beaten borg at 1974 french open if he had been allowed to enter but i would say from 1976 onwards he had little chance.
"
Definitely not true they never met once on red clay when borg was at his peak say from end of 1976 onwards ,and part of that reason is at french open connors could not even reach final in 1979,80 or 81 to challend borg.
Even on the American type clay which played much faster once we reached 1977 borg started to dominate jimmy on that surace also beating him 3 times in a row at the pepsi grand slam.There is no dobt that i think jimmy may have beaten borg at 1974 french open if he had been allowed to enter but i would say from 1976 onwards he had little chance.
paolo2143, I agree.
Surely Borg would've had an edge on the red clay, but, French fans and Jimmy Connors are a potent mix. Would have been very interesting to watch. Connors had his chances at the French, even in his later years. But, he played some really crappy matches, sometimes under lousy weather conditions...with damp clay slowing the game down considerably. And, at that point, Lendl and Wilander were ascending at the French.
CyBorg
Legend
But that's Connors in a nutshell. In a given match he could be amazing against anybody. But he also had his share of bad matches.
Red clay tested him the most and he was very inconsistent on it. I don't think a French was ever in the cards for him.
kiki
Banned
Big exo yes but exo at the end ( not that Connors was happy losing them)
bluegrasser
Hall of Fame
Watching (Pepsi) those matches on youtube brought back great memories, I was a big Connors fan & remember the tension felt watching those matches back then. For some reason I don't feel that watching the modern game, haven't figured that out yet, maybe because tennis was so big back in the 70's.
Actually they never met on red clay, that '74 match (US Claycourts at Indianapolis) was on Har-Tru.
True about those Pepsi meetings being important. '77 was a turning point; '78 was still a tight match. The following year was the blowout.
abmk
Bionic Poster
I don't remember where, but I read it was on red clay. I could be wrong of course. Do you have any link that says it was on har tru ?
yeah, you are right. I was thinking about the 77 and 79 matches when I wrote that.
78 one was still competitive ...
No link specifying Har-Tru, but here's Becker and Lendl playing on it in '85:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NrxnGiCnHs
Most pro tourneys in the U.S. that were played on clay used Har-Tru.
Yes, that was a great run. In the finals he beat Gildemeister, Vilas and twice Lendl...
North Conway?
kiki
Banned
Correct.North Conway was a classical stop in that tour.
As Bobbyone pointed, he beat many great cc players and specially he beat Ivan lendl twice I think.
kiki
Banned
Gildemeister is underrated here, but he was a great clay courter whose best year was 79.from 78 till 81 or early 82 he was a player not many wanted to play on clay.
In 79 he also reached the WCT Montreal Challenge semis, indoors, and taking a set off Connors.Borg won that event with a great 4 sets win over Connors, the best Connors of the 1979 yr.
I meant that I pointed out above that North Conway was on red clay.
The North Conway courts: http://northconwayplaces.com/index.php/culture/history/155-remembering-volvo-tennis
The Volvo left the red clay championship courts of the Cranmore Tennis Stadium after the 1984 tournament for the hard courts of Stratton, Vt., where it stayed before moving again in 1990 to the Yale Stadium in New Haven, Conn. It evolved from there into the Pilot Penn International — but the tournament once dubbed by tennis great Rod Laver as a “little old country hit” in its humble beginnings as an exhibition at Bretton Woods in 1970 had lost its country charm.