2014 Wilson Prostaff 90

PeterFig

PeterFig

Professional
Some nice touches on the design like the 'exposed' braiding on the inside of the hoop ... but all the ruined by the gold stripes and WAY too much gold text.
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
PeterFig said:
Some nice touches on the design like the 'exposed' braiding on the inside of the hoop ... but all the ruined by the gold stripes and WAY too much gold text.
Click to expand...

Exactly, this is the 5th generation of the Tour/Pro Staff 90, after 10 years, we all know it's a 16x19 pattern... -.-
 
robok9

robok9

Semi-Pro
People questioned whether the prostaff series would die if Federer switches to a different racquet. If they keep this paint job, it might die for other reasons.
 
mpournaras

mpournaras

Hall of Fame
I like the NCode pj but I cannot stand how they put so many logos for their "technology" on the inside o the racket. At least make is light grey or gold so it is a little more subtle. Companies don't seem to understand that subtle is good.. gaudy is bad! jeepers

Also does it bother anyone else that the lines on the NCode stripes seem a bit crooked? I dunno im just whining I suppose.

But over all I like it. less graphics and more color blocking is a good thing
 
Vcore89

Vcore89

Talk Tennis Guru
Since I skipped the nCode series, I'm gonna skip this 2014 edition also unless it's a double braided graphite w/ kevlar.:cry:
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Vcore89 said:
Since I skipped the nCode series, I'm gonna skip this 2014 edition also unless it's a double braided graphite w/ kevlar.:cry:
Click to expand...
"Double braided" would imply it has HyperCarbon in it. I don't think you want that. The PS 6.0 85/95 were just braided graphite/kevlar.
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
BreakPoint said:
But your BLX90 already has Kevlar in it. It's the Basalt that's also in it that ruins it.
Click to expand...

Is that confirmed? Or mere speculation based on players' playtests/opinion? I mean if you ask me, I would say it does have kelvar in it, just because of how similar it feels to the 85, and my PC600 (which had Twaron, same as kelvar).

Hehe, but I would definitely consider paying for frames if the word "Kelvar" is painted on it. I know, I'm beyond help.
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Is that confirmed? Or mere speculation based on players' playtests/opinion? I mean if you ask me, I would say it does have kelvar in it, just because of how similar it feels to the 85, and my PC600 (which had Twaron, same as kelvar).

Hehe, but I would definitely consider paying for frames if the word "Kelvar" is painted on it. I know, I'm beyond help.
Click to expand...
All the Tour 90's have braided graphite/kevlar in them. It's just that they each also have some other "junk" thrown in there (e.g., HyperCarbon, Si02, Basalt, etc.). People have cut them open to confirm.
 
Vcore89

Vcore89

Talk Tennis Guru
BreakPoint said:
"Double braided" would imply it has HyperCarbon in it. I don't think you want that. The PS 6.0 85/95 were just braided graphite/kevlar.
Click to expand...

I did not like my PST 90 but if my memory serves me right, it reads 80% graphite (not HC, HMG or UHMG) and 20% kevlar, yeah? ...but I'll take your word for it if you say so.:oops:
 
Vcore89

Vcore89

Talk Tennis Guru
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Is that confirmed? Or mere speculation based on players' playtests/opinion? I mean if you ask me, I would say it does have kelvar in it, just because of how similar it feels to the 85, and my PC600 (which had Twaron, same as kelvar).

Hehe, but I would definitely consider paying for frames if the word "Kelvar" is painted on it. I know, I'm beyond help.
Click to expand...

Off-topic, "Twaron same as "kelvar""...should I infer that Karbon Black and Innegra (Ingenuinely negra = black/dark) is just another naming convention from Wilson and Head?:)
 
C

corners

Legend
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Really?! I'd like to see that, thanks!
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any pictures of BLX 90s (either iteration) cut open. The K version definitely had braided graphite/kevlar; there are pics of that on here somewhere. When the 1st BLX version came out I wrote Wilson and asked if the new model was 1) braided and 2) whether it had kevlar in it.

The response I got, apparently to both questions:

Thank you for your interest. Wilson's new technology , BLX, has used the basalt fibers and woven them longitudinally with (K)araphite Black to create one of the most advanced composites in the industry. We regret the rest is proprietary information.​

Woven means it's not braided. Longitudinally essentially means that the fibers are arrayed longitudinally, i.e. unidirectionally, as they are in any racquet that's not braided (pretty much all of them now.)

You can see here that the response I got was a slightly tweaked version of Wilson's marketing blurb describing their new BLX layup. The graphic they used there, which appeared along with the 1st BLX version, makes it pretty obvious the 1st BLX version was not braided. Rather, the graphic appears to show that the "advanced composite" is merely unidirectional (longitudinally) arrayed graphite with some basalt thrown in rather haphazardly.

Now, the current (bloody q-tip) BLX Pro Staff is braided, according to Wilson's marketing materials. I can't find a link right now, but I remember seeing it in the product descriptions of all three current Pro Staffs. Whether the basalt is present as separate threads within the braid, as the kevlar used to be, or is just mixed in with the graphite, I have no idea.

However, as far as I'm aware, there is no evidence of kevlar being in either BLX 90 version. TW does not list it in the racquet ingredients and "Kevlar" appears nowhere in any Wilson marketing materials for either frame, at least not that I've seen. You can see above that they completed dodged the kevlar question that I sent them. I interpreted this to mean "No, no Kevlar," but interpretations vary.

Nice to see that Kevlar is making it back into the next version. Many people give Kevlar a lot of credit for the unique feel of the Pro Staff and its spawn.
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
corners said:
Now, the current (bloody q-tip) BLX Pro Staff is braided, according to Wilson's marketing materials. I can't find a link right now, but I remember seeing it in the product descriptions of all three current Pro Staffs. Whether the basalt is present as separate threads within the braid, as the kevlar used to be, or is just mixed in with the graphite, I have no idea.

However, as far as I'm aware, there is no evidence of kevlar being in either BLX 90 version. TW does not list it in the racquet ingredients and "Kevlar" appears nowhere in any Wilson marketing materials for either frame, at least not that I've seen. You can see above that they completed dodged the kevlar question that I sent them. I interpreted this to mean "No, no Kevlar," but interpretations vary.

Nice to see that Kevlar is making it back into the next version. Many people give Kevlar a lot of credit for the unique feel of the Pro Staff and its spawn.
Click to expand...

Well, when I playtested the bloody q-tip 90, I thought it played nearly identical to my BLX90, with hints of K90 mixed into it. So if you say the bloody q-tip 90 is braided, I'm inclined to believe my BLX90 is also braided because of how similar they play.

Also, I think my BLX90 plays very similar to the (older, not the TW re-issue) 6.0 85, I'm also inclined also believe my BLX90 has kevlar in it. If I'm wrong, then so be it. :)
 
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C

corners

Legend
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Well, when I playtested the bloody q-tip 90, I thought it played nearly identical to my BLX90, with hints of K90 mixed into it. So if you say the bloody q-tip 90 is braided, I'm inclined to believe my BLX90 is also braided because of how similar they play.

Also, I think my BLX90 plays very similar to the (older, not the TW re-issue) 6.0 85, I'm also inclined also believe my BLX90 has kevlar in it. If I'm wrong, then so be it. :)
Click to expand...

Sure, you can believe or make up whatever you want. As far as subjective **** goes, I can only say that the 1st BLX 90 feels nothing like a K90 or Pro Staff 85. Mushy, vague, gummi.
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Vcore89 said:
I did not like my PST 90 but if my memory serves me right, it reads 80% graphite (not HC, HMG or UHMG) and 20% kevlar, yeah? ...but I'll take your word for it if you say so.:oops:
Click to expand...
The PS Tour 90 had 10% HyperCarbon in it, braided into a second layer with the graphite, while the other layer was braided graphite/Kevlar, so it was 70% graphite/20% Kevlar.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030402000359/http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCWILSON-WT90.html

In fact, you can see that it says "HyperCarbon" and "Double Braid" right on the sides of the frame:


PSTour90-04.jpg


"Double Braid" means it has one layer of braided graphite/Kevlar and a second layer of braided graphite/HyperCarbon so it's "Double Braid" (two layers of braiding with two different materials instead of one).


BTW, the nCode 90 was also 10% HyperCarbon/70% Graphite/20%Kevlar. The only difference with the PS Tour 90 is that they injected silicone oxide molecules (nCode) into the HyperCarbon and the Graphite. (http://web.archive.org/web/20040814...is-warehouse.com/ractechpage.html?PCODE=WN61T). (HyperCarbon is nothing but ultra-high modulus graphite: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/abouthypercarbon.html )

http://web.archive.org/web/20040725...nis-warehouse.com/descpageRCWILSON-WN61T.html
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
corners said:
I haven't seen any pictures of BLX 90s (either iteration) cut open. The K version definitely had braided graphite/kevlar; there are pics of that on here somewhere. When the 1st BLX version came out I wrote Wilson and asked if the new model was 1) braided and 2) whether it had kevlar in it.

The response I got, apparently to both questions:
Thank you for your interest. Wilson's new technology , BLX, has used the basalt fibers and woven them longitudinally with (K)araphite Black to create one of the most advanced composites in the industry. We regret the rest is proprietary information.​
Woven means it's not braided. Longitudinally essentially means that the fibers are arrayed longitudinally, i.e. unidirectionally, as they are in any racquet that's not braided (pretty much all of them now.)

You can see here that the response I got was a slightly tweaked version of Wilson's marketing blurb describing their new BLX layup. The graphic they used there, which appeared along with the 1st BLX version, makes it pretty obvious the 1st BLX version was not braided. Rather, the graphic appears to show that the "advanced composite" is merely unidirectional (longitudinally) arrayed graphite with some basalt thrown in rather haphazardly.

Now, the current (bloody q-tip) BLX Pro Staff is braided, according to Wilson's marketing materials. I can't find a link right now, but I remember seeing it in the product descriptions of all three current Pro Staffs. Whether the basalt is present as separate threads within the braid, as the kevlar used to be, or is just mixed in with the graphite, I have no idea.

However, as far as I'm aware, there is no evidence of kevlar being in either BLX 90 version. TW does not list it in the racquet ingredients and "Kevlar" appears nowhere in any Wilson marketing materials for either frame, at least not that I've seen. You can see above that they completed dodged the kevlar question that I sent them. I interpreted this to mean "No, no Kevlar," but interpretations vary.

Nice to see that Kevlar is making it back into the next version. Many people give Kevlar a lot of credit for the unique feel of the Pro Staff and its spawn.
Click to expand...

"Karophite Black" is nothing but a marketing name that Wilson gave to its graphite that had been "nCoded" (addition of silicon oxide) and the bonds between the molecules strengthened. I don't think Basalt has the material properties that would allow it to be braided so that's why it's woven into the graphite mix. However, the graphite/basalt mix can still be braided with the Kevlar.

I'm almost positive that the BLX90 is braided 80% graphite/basalt and 20% Kevlar. If you took the Kevlar out completely or didn't use braiding, the frame would feel completely different from all the other Tour 90s, but since it feels very close to all the other Tour 90's, there has to be braided with Kevlar in it. In fact, the only real difference I feel between the PS90BLX and the BLX90 is in the swingweight.

Wilson learned their lesson when they first moved production to Taiwan from St. Vincent in 1991 and tried making PS 85's without braiding and it changed the feel so much that they quickly went back to braiding, and I doubt they've deviated from that again ever since.
 
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Sander001

Sander001

Hall of Fame
As a long time owner of a Pro Staff 85 [not the 6.0] I have to say I much prefer the feel of the BLX Tour 90 to the feel of the [k]Factor Tour 90 or the nCode.
And I have a Pro Staff Tour 90 and it feels awful. Though mine says "Double Braid" on the inside of the throat so maybe I have some lower quality production run or something.

Whatever the case, I haven't heard any version of the Tour 90 being the definitive replicant to the Pro Staff 85.
corners said:
I haven't seen any pictures of BLX 90s (either iteration) cut open. The K version definitely had braided graphite/kevlar; there are pics of that on here somewhere. When the 1st BLX version came out I wrote Wilson and asked if the new model was 1) braided and 2) whether it had kevlar in it.

The response I got, apparently to both questions:

Thank you for your interest. Wilson's new technology , BLX, has used the basalt fibers and woven them longitudinally with (K)araphite Black to create one of the most advanced composites in the industry. We regret the rest is proprietary information.​

Woven means it's not braided. Longitudinally essentially means that the fibers are arrayed longitudinally, i.e. unidirectionally, as they are in any racquet that's not braided (pretty much all of them now.)

You can see here that the response I got was a slightly tweaked version of Wilson's marketing blurb describing their new BLX layup. The graphic they used there, which appeared along with the 1st BLX version, makes it pretty obvious the 1st BLX version was not braided. Rather, the graphic appears to show that the "advanced composite" is merely unidirectional (longitudinally) arrayed graphite with some basalt thrown in rather haphazardly.

Now, the current (bloody q-tip) BLX Pro Staff is braided, according to Wilson's marketing materials. I can't find a link right now, but I remember seeing it in the product descriptions of all three current Pro Staffs. Whether the basalt is present as separate threads within the braid, as the kevlar used to be, or is just mixed in with the graphite, I have no idea.

However, as far as I'm aware, there is no evidence of kevlar being in either BLX 90 version. TW does not list it in the racquet ingredients and "Kevlar" appears nowhere in any Wilson marketing materials for either frame, at least not that I've seen. You can see above that they completed dodged the kevlar question that I sent them. I interpreted this to mean "No, no Kevlar," but interpretations vary.

Nice to see that Kevlar is making it back into the next version. Many people give Kevlar a lot of credit for the unique feel of the Pro Staff and its spawn.
Click to expand...
Nice detective work! I wonder what they're hiding.
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Sander001 said:
As a long time owner of a Pro Staff 85 [not the 6.0] I have to say I much prefer the feel of the BLX Tour 90 to the feel of the [k]Factor Tour 90 or the nCode.
And I have a Pro Staff Tour 90 and it feels awful. Though mine says "Double Braid" on the inside of the throat so maybe I have some lower quality production run or something.

Whatever the case, I haven't heard any version of the Tour 90 being the definitive replicant to the Pro Staff 85. Nice detective work! I wonder what they're hiding.
Click to expand...
Nope, it just depends on exactly when it was produced as Wilson typically changes the graphics on its frames from time-to-time even on the exact same model. So a lot of PS Tour 90s did have the "Double Braid" logo on the inside of the throat:

IMG_2852.jpg



The reason that none of the Tour 90s feel exactly like the PS 85 is that they all have something else in them other than just pure 80% graphite and 20% Kevlar, whether it's HyperCarbon, silicon oxide, Basalt, Amplifeel, etc.

PS Tour 90: HyperCarbon
nCode 90: HyperCarbon and silicon oxide
K90: silicon oxide
BLX 90: Basalt
PS90BLX: Basalt and Amplifeel

I think the K90 has the closest feel to the PS 85 because they took out the HyperCarbon and kept the braided 80% graphite/20% Kevlar but they also kept the silicon oxide molecules (nCoded graphite) in the graphite from the nCode 90.
 
Vcore89

Vcore89

Talk Tennis Guru
BreakPoint said:
The PS Tour 90 had 10% HyperCarbon in it, braided into a second layer with the graphite, while the other layer was braided graphite/Kevlar, so it was 70% graphite/20% Kevlar.


"Double Braid" means it has one layer of braided graphite/Kevlar and a second layer of braided graphite/HyperCarbon so it's "Double Braid" (two layers of braiding with two different materials instead of one).


BTW, the nCode 90 was also 10% HyperCarbon/70% Graphite/20%Kevlar. The only difference with the PS Tour 90 is that they injected silicone oxide molecules (nCode) into the HyperCarbon and the Graphite. (http://web.archive.org/web/20040814...is-warehouse.com/ractechpage.html?PCODE=WN61T). (HyperCarbon is nothing but ultra-high modulus graphite: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/abouthypercarbon.html )

http://web.archive.org/web/20040725...nis-warehouse.com/descpageRCWILSON-WN61T.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification regarding ''double'' braid...was veering towards the braided (fibreglass) Extusa Power Beam (that I liked).

Hyper and Ultra...makes perfect sense.
 
Vcore89

Vcore89

Talk Tennis Guru
Vcore89 said:
Thanks for the clarification regarding ''double'' braid...was veering towards the braided (fibreglass) Extusa Power Beam (that I liked).

Hyper and Ultra...makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

and without being radiculous, I actually had a different braided and double braided idea in mind...:)
 
ian27

ian27

New User
Just saw this close-up pic......

Anyone have any idea for what purpose are those marked units of measurement?
To help with placements of lead tape....??

I just don't get it.....I've decided that the paintjob on the 2014 PS90 is just awful.....Much prefer my "retro" AN90s.....Thank you very much!


578723_10151686852353657_1154314476_n.jpg
 
MrFlip

MrFlip

Professional
ian27 said:
Just saw this close-up pic......

Anyone have any idea for what purpose are those marked units of measurement?
To help with placements of lead tape....??

I just don't get it.....I've decided that the paintjob on the 2014 PS90 is just awful.....Much prefer my "retro" AN90s.....Thank you very much!


578723_10151686852353657_1154314476_n.jpg
Click to expand...

Ncode 90s all the way. Best racquet paint job ever
 
zapvor

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
serious though.....if you can feel teh difference between braid and unbraided materials, you need to be doing soimething else. i am willing to bet if i painted a bunch of rackets all same color NONE of you can tell the difference. geez......
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
zapvor said:
serious though.....if you can feel teh difference between braid and unbraided materials, you need to be doing soimething else. i am willing to bet if i painted a bunch of rackets all same color NONE of you can tell the difference. geez......
Click to expand...
Um...nope. I can certainly tell the difference.
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
ian27 said:
Anyone have any idea for what purpose are those marked units of measurement?
To help with placements of lead tape....??
Click to expand...

Because Wilson thinks it's too expensive for tennis players to spend $2 on a ruler so they've given us a reason to spend $200 instead.

Also, this "technology" does not apply to people who prefer their lead tape at 2/10 o'clock or anywhere else.
 
ian27

ian27

New User
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Because Wilson thinks it's too expensive for tennis players to spend $2 on a ruler so they've given us a reason to spend $200 instead.
Click to expand...

Hah!!

Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Also, this "technology" does not apply to people who prefer their lead tape at 2/10 o'clock or anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Isn't that weird?? Hardly utilitarian yet crass....The paintjob of a PS90 should be understatedly elegant.

Based on what pictures I've seen so far of this new 2014 PS range, the paintjobs certainly don't appeal to me.... :?
 
Vcore89

Vcore89

Talk Tennis Guru
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
Because Wilson thinks it's too expensive for tennis players to spend $2 on a ruler so they've given us a reason to spend $200 instead.

Also, this "technology" does not apply to people who prefer their lead tape at 2/10 o'clock or anywhere else.
Click to expand...

So Wilson teaches us arithmetic with the deductive (subliminal) reasoning that $200 spent is far better than $2?:)

Btw, Wilson must be telling me to move my lead tape to 3 - 9?:)
 
P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
zapvor said:
serious though.....if you can feel teh difference between braid and unbraided materials, you need to be doing soimething else. i am willing to bet if i painted a bunch of rackets all same color NONE of you can tell the difference. geez......
Click to expand...
Why should one not be able to feel it? The direction fibres in the material point will make a huge difference in stiffness, how it flexes, etc.
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
Vcore89 said:
So Wilson teaches us arithmetic with the deductive (subliminal) reasoning that $200 spent is far better than $2?:)

Btw, Wilson must be telling me to move my lead tape to 3 - 9?:)
Click to expand...

The 2015 mid-cycle paintjob refresh will feature an instructional diagrams at 6 o'clock to show people to install dampeners. Also, on the throat, it'll show people how to put overgrips on.
 
Vcore89

Vcore89

Talk Tennis Guru
Say Chi Sin Lo said:
The 2015 mid-cycle paintjob refresh will feature an instructional diagrams at 6 o'clock to show people to install dampeners. Also, on the throat, it'll show people how to put overgrips on.
Click to expand...

Future-proofing in reverse (to put it nicely) eh?:) Or more succinctly, dumb-proofing it.:) Way to go Wilson.:-|

At least Head is splicing Graphenes for the gullibles.:)
 
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Phantasm

Phantasm

Semi-Pro
Saw the 6.1 95 visual on a Wilson catalog. Same type of paintjob but it was slightly more pleasant to look at than the 90.

I guess the gold stripes aren't as accentuated because its not box beam. Definitely not my favorite PJ but I like the how the PJ looks on the 6.1 than the 90s. Pretty interested in trying the Spin effect 6.1 95s
 
H

Hollywood2

Rookie
Who ran over it?

Jesus,

That's one ugly looking racquet. Looks like someone ran over it with their car and killed it.

How could Wilson butcher this paint job so badly. I agree those gold stripes are very, very tacky.

C'mon Wilson it's 2014 spend a little on a good PJ.

P.S I showed my friend the pic of the racquet and he said it looked like a tampon. I almost fell of my couch laughing so hard.
 
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