Which GOAT candidate had the weakest competition

Which GOAT candidate had the weakest competition

  • Total voters
    83
mandy01

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
The Dark Knight said:
You don't call Federer , djokovic , Coria competition on clay?

Well I guess no one is real competition against Nadal on clay...so in a way your right .
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Of course not. Neither Djokovic nor Federer are clay-court specialists. They're just hard-courters or grass-courters who can play reasonably well on clay but wouldn't even figure in the top 5 or 10 of the all-time list. Djokovic, definitely NOT until he wins a FO. Besides, haven't you already argued Federer isn't really all that good given his 'weak era?' So which is it?
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
mandy01 said:
Of course not. Neither Djokovic nor Federer are clay-court specialists. They're just hard-courters or grass-courters who can play reasonably well on clay but wouldn't even figure in the top 5 or 10 of the all-time list. Djokovic, definitely NOT until he wins a FO. Besides, haven't you already argued Federer isn't really all that good given his 'weak era?' So which is it?
Click to expand...

This is the paradox.

Well balanced post, asking a sensible question.
 
illusions30

illusions30

Banned
mandy01 said:
Of course not. Neither Djokovic nor Federer are clay-court specialists. They're just hard-courters or grass-courters who can play reasonably well on clay but wouldn't even figure in the top 5 or 10 of the all-time list.
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Who today besides Federer would even be a top 15 grass courter of all time. I agree the clay field today is weak relative to other eras, but the grass field is much weaker still. Especialy given that many Federer fans claim Nadal is only a clay courter who is a lucky fluke winner on other surfaces, and wouldn't make it past the 2nd round of Wimbledon in another era, yet he is by an enormous margin the 2nd best grass courter of the Federer era and Federer's toughest opponent on grass. So if the clay field is weak, the grass field is the weakest ever.
 
Who Am I?

Who Am I?

Banned
illusions30 said:
Who today besides Federer would even be a top 15 grass courter of all time. I agree the clay field today is weak relative to other eras, but the grass field is much weaker still. Especialy given that many Federer fans claim Nadal is only a clay courter who is a lucky fluke winner on other surfaces, and wouldn't make it past the 2nd round of Wimbledon in another era, yet he is by an enormous margin the 2nd best grass courter of the Federer era and Federer's toughest opponent on grass. So if the clay field is weak, the grass field is the weakest ever.
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Federer beat grass court specialists in Roddick, Hewitt and Murray to win 5/7 of his WImbledon titles. Which clay court specialist did Nadal beat to win any of his FO titles? Oh, that's right, Ferrer. :lol:

And the only reason, Nadal proved to be a tough opponent on grass for Federer was due to the match up issues, not because Nadal is an extraordinary grass courter himself.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
mandy01 said:
Of course not. Neither Djokovic nor Federer are clay-court specialists. They're just hard-courters or grass-courters who can play reasonably well on clay but wouldn't even figure in the top 5 or 10 of the all-time list. Djokovic, definitely NOT until he wins a FO. Besides, haven't you already argued Federer isn't really all that good given his 'weak era?' So which is it?
Click to expand...

I see so its only a clay court specialist .....which clay court specialist do you think ever had a chance against Nadal?

Coria? Nadal beat him

Gaudio? No way.

Keratin ? One handed bh....no chance.

I guess the world is wrong....Nadal is the undisputed greatest clay courter of all time....except here at TW. It's a mad mad world where you can't even give him that.

Fed is good by the way....it's just that Nadal is better.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Who Am I? said:
Federer beat grass court specialists in Roddick, Hewitt and Murray to win 5/7 of his WImbledon titles. Which clay court specialist did Nadal beat to win any of his FO titles? Oh, that's right, Ferrer. :lol:

And the only reason, Nadal proved to be a tough opponent on grass for Federer was due to the match up issues, not because Nadal is an extraordinary grass courter himself.
Click to expand...

Roddick won the USO how is he a grass court specialist ?

Hewitt won the USO how is he a grass court specialist ?

Murray won the USO how is he a grass court specialist?

Nadal beat Roddick on fast grass by the way at queens club. And as far as bad matchup that's such a lame argument because Nadal is a bad matchup then for the top 50 players in the world? Nadal made it to those finals by beating everyone before him including Roger Federer himself.

You have lost the debate in any event the jury has rendered its verdict and the decision is Federer had the weakest competition......next thread.
 
tipsa...don'tlikehim!

tipsa...don'tlikehim!

Talk Tennis Guru
Who Am I? said:
Federer beat grass court specialists in Roddick, Hewitt and Murray to win 5/7 of his WImbledon titles. Which clay court specialist did Nadal beat to win any of his FO titles? Oh, that's right, Ferrer. :lol:
Click to expand...

Ferrer, Gasquet, Wawrinka, Almagro, Verdasco, these are clay court specialists.

What are u trying to say? i don't get it... Nadal won 8 FO.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
hoodjem said:
Is there a neutral choice?
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These are the posters that voted Federer. Anti-Fed fans are from Nadal, Sampras and Rosewall. You can't take the poll seriously.

Neutral fans have merit are Zagor, hitman, Sentinel, TheFifthSet or abmk. These are the people that you want them to vote, not with posters who base on feeling/emotion.

-RF-, 6-1 6-3 6-0, 90's Clay, Anti-Fedal, baobabz, beast of mallorca, BobbyOne, BrooklynNY, Bud, bullfan, CaptainCool309, chandu612, Crose, ducnscc, Gonzo_style, hoodjem, mistik, papertank, reversef, rossi46, sam_p, swizzy, tennis4jags, The_Order, tipsa...don'tlikehim!, Turning Pro, victorcruz, viduka0101
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
TMF said:
These are the posters that voted Federer. Anti-Fed fans are from Nadal, Sampras and Rosewall. You can't take the poll seriously.

Neutral fans have merit are Zagor, hitman, Sentinel, TheFifthSet or abmk. These are the people that you want them to vote, not with posters who base on feeling/emotion.

-RF-, 6-1 6-3 6-0, 90's Clay, Anti-Fedal, baobabz, beast of mallorca, BobbyOne, BrooklynNY, Bud, bullfan, CaptainCool309, chandu612, Crose, ducnscc, Gonzo_style, hoodjem, mistik, papertank, reversef, rossi46, sam_p, swizzy, tennis4jags, The_Order, tipsa...don'tlikehim!, Turning Pro, victorcruz, viduka0101
Click to expand...

There are more fed fans than nadal on this board ......fed fans can't bring themselves to vote,.

Like it or not the jury has made its decision....case closed. You lose.
 
10is

10is

Professional
TMF said:
Actually the weak competition theory all started by Sampras fans. When Federer was chasing Sampras in the mid-2000, Sampras fans were jealous/bitter of Roger's success rate and produces better numbers, so they resort to down talk Federer for every trophy he got his hands on. Since they got nothing to defend Sampras, they clutch at straws by calling Fed has weak competition.
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What's rather amusing is that in the 33 grand slam tournaments between Wimbledon '93 and Wimbledon '01, Pete Sampras lost 21 slams, winning only 12 slams. That’s a failure rate of 64%.

Even worse, Sampras lost to many lousy or low-ranked players at grand slams, even at the US Open and Australian Open. Sampras lost to players outside the top ten, such as Jaime Yzaga (No. 23) in 1994; Gilbert Schaller No. 24) in 1995; Mark Philippoussis (No. 40) and Richard Krajicek (No. 13) in 1996; Magnus Norman (No. 65) and Petr Korda (No. 16) in 1997; Karol Kucera (No. 20) and Ramon Delgado (No. 97) in 1998; Mark Philippoussis (No. 14), Andrei Medveddev (No. 100) and Vincent Spadea (No. 34) in 1999; Mark Philippoussis (No. 25); Todd Martin (No. 54) and Roger Federer (No. 14) in 2001. Sampras also lost to Agassi and other top ten players as well.

Whereas, in the 33 grand slam tournaments between Wimbledon '03 and Wimbledon '11, Federer lost only 17 slams, winning 16 slams. That’s a success rate of almost 50%! Federer lost only to Marat Safin (No. 4), Del Potro (No. 6), Soderling (No. 7), Nalbandian (No. 13), Berdych (No. 13), and Tsonga (No. 19) and Gustavo KJuerten (No. 30) outside of Nadal/Djokovic in grand slams since 2005.

Martin J said:
How many Slams would have Nadal won, had he played prime Djokovic since 2008? That's who silly looks this game.
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Even then, Nadal has been rather fortunate in the period encompassing Federer's post-prime and Djokovic's prime. For instance, between 2008 and 2011, Federer drew Djokovic in his half in 14 of 16 grand slam events. Whereas Nadal ONLY drew Djokovic in his half twice i.e. in the 2008 and 2010 French Open. Draw-fixing conspiracies aside, it's rather plausible to assume that this fortunate scenario inevitably aided Nadal in achieving 7 of his 10 grand slam titles between 2008 and 2011. Kudos to Nadal for taking advantage of this windows of opportunity, having not had to contend with a priming Djokovic during a period encapsulated by a gradually declining Federer.
 
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illusions30

illusions30

Banned
Who Am I? said:
Federer beat grass court specialists in Roddick, Hewitt and Murray to win 5/7 of his WImbledon titles.
Click to expand...

Roddick, Murray, and Hewitt are not grass court specialists. They are all better hard court players than grass court players. The fact remains Nadal is by far the 2nd best grass courter of the Federer era. This is something you cant deny even if you try, and is also by far Federer's toughest opponent on grass. Many Federer fans/Nadal haters (a category you would easily fall under) downplay the abilities of Nadal on grass, and call all his non clay wins lucky flukes. Yet he is by far the next best grass courter after Federer of this era. So based on that what does that say about Federer's competition on grass? Exactly. A so called clay specialist is also a better and more accomplished grass court player than all your so called grass specialists, which shows how useless that criteria is anyway.

Also if one is going to argue Federer's competition grass is tougher than Nadal's on clay you are basically conceding Nadal on grass >> Federer on clay. Meanwhile Roddick is certainly not a better grass court player than Djokovic is a clay court player. Djokovic has given Nadal more trouble on clay than Roddick has Federer on grass, and even Federer fans concede Nadal on clay > Federer on grass.

For the record I dont believe either Nadal or Federer had the weakest competition and did not vote for either in the poll. I do find the fans who vote for one as the weakest and one as the best (like yourself voting for Federer as best and Nadal as worst, but some Nadal fans did the same in reverse) are complete contrarians considering they are roughly the same era. There is no way they can be so far apart as one to have the best competition, and the other the weakest. If one has the strongest competition ever, the other has to be atleast top 3, and on the other hand if the other has the worst ever, the either has to be in the 3 bottom.
 
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M

msc886

Professional
The Dark Knight said:
Actually I ran a poll and it said Nadal was goat....poll was deleted.
Click to expand...

Well if it was deleted, it must be rubbish and doesn't count. doesn't count then. So based on polls Federer is the GOAT and is better than Nadal? U can't believe this poll and not believe the other polls.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
msc886 said:
Well if it was deleted, it must be rubbish and doesn't count. doesn't count then. So based on polls Federer is the GOAT and is better than Nadal? U can't believe this poll and not believe the other polls.
Click to expand...

Sure I can. This poll was just made.....the Fed goat poll is old.

Go ahead and do a poll now.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
illusions30 said:
Roddick, Murray, and Hewitt are not grass court specialists. They are all better hard court players than grass court players. The fact remains Nadal is by far the 2nd best grass courter of the Federer era. This is something you cant deny even if you try, and is also by far Federer's toughest opponent on grass. Many Federer fans/Nadal haters (a category you would easily fall under) downplay the abilities of Nadal on grass, and call all his non clay wins lucky flukes. Yet he is by far the next best grass courter after Federer of this era. So based on that what does that say about Federer's competition on grass? Exactly. A so called clay specialist is also a better and more accomplished grass court player than all your so called grass specialists, which shows how useless that criteria is anyway.

Also if one is going to argue Federer's competition grass is tougher than Nadal's on clay you are basically conceding Nadal on grass >> Federer on clay. Meanwhile Roddick is certainly not a better grass court player than Djokovic is a clay court player. Djokovic has given Nadal more trouble on clay than Roddick has Federer on grass, and even Federer fans concede Nadal on clay > Federer on grass.

For the record I dont believe either Nadal or Federer had the weakest competition and did not vote for either in the poll. I do find the fans who vote for one as the weakest and one as the best (like yourself voting for Federer as best and Nadal as worst, but some Nadal fans did the same in reverse) are complete contrarians considering they are roughly the same era. There is no way they can be so far apart as one to have the best competition, and the other the weakest. If one has the strongest competition ever, the other has to be atleast top 3, and on the other hand if the other has the worst ever, the either has to be in the 3 bottom.
Click to expand...
roddick did push fed at W. see 2004 and 2009.

djoko pushed rafa only once at RG. this year.

with the rest of your points i agree
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
illusions30 said:
Roddick, Murray, and Hewitt are not grass court specialists. They are all better hard court players than grass court players. The fact remains Nadal is by far the 2nd best grass courter of the Federer era. This is something you cant deny even if you try, and is also by far Federer's toughest opponent on grass. Many Federer fans/Nadal haters (a category you would easily fall under) downplay the abilities of Nadal on grass, and call all his non clay wins lucky flukes. Yet he is by far the next best grass courter after Federer of this era. So based on that what does that say about Federer's competition on grass? Exactly. A so called clay specialist is also a better and more accomplished grass court player than all your so called grass specialists, which shows how useless that criteria is anyway.

Also if one is going to argue Federer's competition grass is tougher than Nadal's on clay you are basically conceding Nadal on grass >> Federer on clay. Meanwhile Roddick is certainly not a better grass court player than Djokovic is a clay court player. Djokovic has given Nadal more trouble on clay than Roddick has Federer on grass, and even Federer fans concede Nadal on clay > Federer on grass.

For the record I dont believe either Nadal or Federer had the weakest competition and did not vote for either in the poll. I do find the fans who vote for one as the weakest and one as the best (like yourself voting for Federer as best and Nadal as worst, but some Nadal fans did the same in reverse) are complete contrarians considering they are roughly the same era. There is no way they can be so far apart as one to have the best competition, and the other the weakest. If one has the strongest competition ever, the other has to be atleast top 3, and on the other hand if the other has the worst ever, the either has to be in the 3 bottom.
Click to expand...

Holy freholes...that's the quickest ban ever!
 
M

msc886

Professional
The Dark Knight said:
Sure I can. This poll was just made.....the Fed goat poll is old.

Go ahead and do a poll now.
Click to expand...

It may be old but the fact that nobody has started a Fed GOAT thread since then means that no-one wants to debate it further and hence it is still a valid poll. If you want to debate that Fed is not GOAT, then you should start a thread because I agree with Fed being GOAT and is better than Nadal.

For example, unless somebody does research to say that smoking is good for you, it will remain a fact that smoking is bad for you even though the reasearch is decades old.

So based on polls, if you believe this one then you'll still have to believe that Fed is GOAT and is better than Nadal especially when this poll contradicts itself. If Nadal is a GOAT candidate (or GOAT that you believe him to be) then Federer cannot have the weakest competition vice versa.
 
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