Actual 5.5 and 6.0 play

F

floydcouncil

Professional
I've seen plenty of 5.0 and 5.5 players in my leagues. Those guys fit right in. But, there's no way a 6.0 player moves that slow.
 
N

NLBwell

Legend
Serves are pretty wimpy compared to the 4.5 guy I played last week. (Pretty sure he will be a 5.0 next year) Rest of their games seem are far more solid, though.
 
TimeSpiral

TimeSpiral

Professional
Cool find. It's interesting to see NTRPs of that level in that area. I wish they were using a better camera angle though. *shrugs*

I was hoping to see some rallies (of which there were very few). It was interesting to see them both essentially employ serve and volley as their primary tactic. Lots of 1-2 and 1-2-3 tennis.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I consider Div1 singles to be 5.5, and the top level, possibly 6.0.
Div1, the player's are younger, more likely to get into long rallies, basing their winning on stamina, speed, quickness, endurance.
5.5-6.0 players are older, need to save something for the next match, and want to end the point sooner.
TonLars an exception, of course.
Then you get ATP lower level players, 1,500 down to 300, who can hit the winners, but also are in fantastic shape and can extend rallies AND hit winners.
 
HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
Yes, pretty obvious they're both very high level players.

Agree with one player that their movement might be the one thing to hinder them from being super competitive at 6.0.
 
Avles

Avles

Hall of Fame
Looks like Mariusz (6.0) is Mariusz Adamski.

Apparently while at Wake he had a win over Isner in doubles--if I were him I'd be working that fact into as many conversations as possible... :)
 
Timbo's hopeless slice

Timbo's hopeless slice

Hall of Fame
Avles said:
Looks like Mariusz (6.0) is Mariusz Adamski.

Apparently while at Wake he had a win over Isner in doubles--if I were him I'd be working that fact into as many conversations as possible... :)
Click to expand...

Haha!

I have a friend who has a career winning record over Lleyton Hewitt..

(I think they played once when he was 14 and Hewitt was 11 or something and playing up an age division, but still... :) )

Mind you, he is still a top class player!
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Most good players don't need to mention names they have beaten, because they themselves underachieved, while the would have been named player DID achieve the goals that were set back in the day.
Most.
OTOH, I have crushed GeorgeHolland, TysonVolland, RodneySmith (all made top 10, FACTORY team riders (AMA Motocross), and a bunch of other top pro riders.....when they were first starting racing in Novice class...:):)
Of course, by the middle of their first season, they advanced to expert, while I was still trying to get out of Novice class.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
It's nice to know some of us don't see reality nearly as clearly as other's.
I"m pretty sure most 4.0 don't volley, don't hit 130 mph serves, nor do they stand in and return the serves of those two guys.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
They might be smacking the tape and hitting just out when they play each other....
Believe me, when they play against you and me, they hit every ball perfectly and placed perfectly out of our reach.
 
N

NLBwell

Legend
joemanblues said:
but these guys serve land inside the service box
Click to expand...

Of course my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I was shocked at a 4.5 guy serving as well as this guy did. I've played or hit against very few people who served bigger than him and his first serve percentage was about 75% (one was as ATP doubles player who at one time was timed as the second fastest serve in the world, to give you the idea of what I'm talking about). There is a point to be made that looks on video don't necessarily translate to how good the players are. They both are much better players than the 4.5, but if you just saw video, it would be hard to tell and you might pick the 4.5 as better.
 
R

RetroSpin

Hall of Fame
Those are not 130 MPH serves. I saw one big serve, and I would say it was 115 maybe. Most of the serves were kickers that probably didn't top 100.
 
Topspin Shot

Topspin Shot

Legend
Some of you guys are just plain crazy. This is very high level tennis; my head is exploding from reading some of these comments.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
The guy in the white shorts footfaults on every serve (both feet) so he deserves a NTRP ranking of 0.

Let him follow the rules of tennis and then we can discuss again.
 
TimeSpiral

TimeSpiral

Professional
sureshs said:
The guy in the white shorts footfaults on every serve (both feet) so he deserves a NTRP ranking of 0.

Let him follow the rules of tennis and then we can discuss again.
Click to expand...

Oh don't be silly. Foot faulting is not a "real rule." Only sissies follow that rule. I serve from the service line. Why else would it be called the service line?!

They also don't play with singles sticks. They should be insta-NTRP 0.0- in my book. And plus, they're serve and volleying! Go play doubles, losers.

Disclaimer: I'm kidding. Unbuntch panties now, please.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Good you guys noticed the footfaulting....by the weaker serving player.
I think there is a code or honor system at higher levels of tennis, where you don't call for footfaults unless the serve is really effective or big.
Certainly, if you're a higher rated player, or a better player, it's not really important. This looks like a practice match, not a tournament match.
I've played a few tournaments, and while my opponent HAS called me for footfaults, I know I don't because the spectators say I don't, and it never get's mentioned more than one time. It's more a ploy to try to disturb my service motion than anything else.
 
skiracer55

skiracer55

Hall of Fame
Yep, I'd say these guys are the real thing...

...5.5s to 6.0s, about what you'd see in the later rounds of an Open tournament...
 
KineticChain

KineticChain

Hall of Fame
RetroSpin said:
Those are not 130 MPH serves. I saw one big serve, and I would say it was 115 maybe. Most of the serves were kickers that probably didn't top 100.
Click to expand...

This serve, I linked previously, is 126 mph.

This video shows the speeds of different serves including the exact serve I linked.

If you do not believe, use this website to calculate the speed for yourself. Make sure to use the proper frame rate and not the default, if necessary.
 
R

RetroSpin

Hall of Fame
KineticChain said:
This serve, I linked previously, is 126 mph.

This video shows the speeds of different serves including the exact serve I linked.

If you do not believe, use this website to calculate the speed for yourself. Make sure to use the proper frame rate and not the default, if necessary.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can do that accurately off youtube. The video is compressed and the quality of that match video is pretty poor to begin with.

Maybe the one ace was 126, I can't say for sure obviously. I estimated 115 which is not that far off. These guys do not have Tour serves. They have, as someone said, what you would expect in an Open tournament. Not too many Tour players are consistently >125, that's for sure.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
You are correct, they don''t have travelling tour serves.
They expect a high kicking twist or top/slice to solicit a weak high floater return, so they can pummell the volley.
Obviously, 6.0 guy has a much stronger serve that might due duty on the tour.
But they are advertised as 5.5-6.0 players playing practice match.
 
KineticChain

KineticChain

Hall of Fame
RetroSpin said:
I don't think you can do that accurately off youtube. The video is compressed and the quality of that match video is pretty poor to begin with.

Maybe the one ace was 126, I can't say for sure obviously. I estimated 115 which is not that far off. These guys do not have Tour serves. They have, as someone said, what you would expect in an Open tournament. Not too many Tour players are consistently >125, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

I gave you the resources necessary so you can be "sure". You can accurately do it off Youtube. It's a more direct and accurate measurement than radar *if you know what your doing*. The quality doesn't really matter as long as you can see the ball upon contact with the racquet and during contact of the court. You have to download the video first.. then open it through a video program to count the frames per second. Based on the number of frames the ball travels in air, you can calculate the initial speed to within a mph accuracy. You also have to know the distance traveled, which varies slightly depending on how far wide the server is standing and where the ball hits the serve box.

Also... 115 vs. 126 mph is about a 10% error and quite a big difference in terms of ability. Don't think of it like a difference of only 11 mph, think of it as an addition of 11 mph to an already big serve.
 
skiracer55

skiracer55

Hall of Fame
Bingo...

LeeD said:
I"m sure you doubters hit the same backhand passing shots as those guys.
Click to expand...

...these guys are respectable 5.5/6.0s, regardless of serve speed. The whole NTRP schema is only semi-objective, anyway, and above 5.0 it's somewhat difficult to discern a player's *actual* level based on a video of a few points.

In my experience, the qualies of local Open tournaments usually have 5.0s and a sprinkling of 5.5s, and the later rounds, a mixture of 5.5s and 6.0s. 6.5? To me that's Futures/Challenger level. 7.0? Definitely ATP, more specifically, ATP top 20...
 
J

jservoss

Rookie
skiracer55 said:
...these guys are respectable 5.5/6.0s, regardless of serve speed. The whole NTRP schema is only semi-objective, anyway, and above 5.0 it's somewhat difficult to discern a player's *actual* level based on a video of a few points.

In my experience, the qualies of local Open tournaments usually have 5.0s and a sprinkling of 5.5s, and the later rounds, a mixture of 5.5s and 6.0s. 6.5? To me that's Futures/Challenger level. 7.0? Definitely ATP, more specifically, ATP top 20...
Click to expand...

It only takes watching Fabrice Santoro for one point to realize that judging someone by a couple of videos rather than their results is just downright stupid.
 
skiracer55

skiracer55

Hall of Fame
Perfect...

jservoss said:
It only takes watching Fabrice Santoro for one point to realize that judging someone by a couple of videos rather than their results is just downright stupid.
Click to expand...

...the guy was a tennis genius, beat some of the best with his variety, but if you watched him warm up, you'd think he was a 3.5...
 
Fuji

Fuji

Legend
These guys are really good. If you think they are anything less than a 5.0 you are simply out of your tree haha. Both guys are solid.

-Fuji
 
KineticChain

KineticChain

Hall of Fame
skiracer55 said:
...the guy was a tennis genius, beat some of the best with his variety, but if you watched him warm up, you'd think he was a 3.5...
Click to expand...

It looked different and therefore funny, but he still hit a heavy pro level ball. If you saw hit him hit up close.. there's no way he'd look like a 3.5. The T.V. camera angle is terrible for gauging power and spin.

Take a look at this guy who has a two handed forehand and backhand, and small, like Santoro. He can still smack a ball with that technique.
 
TimeSpiral

TimeSpiral

Professional
KineticChain said:
It looked different and therefore funny, but he still hit a heavy pro level ball. If you saw hit him hit up close.. there's no way he'd look like a 3.5. The T.V. camera angle is terrible for gauging power and spin.

Take a look at this guy who has a two handed forehand and backhand, and small, like Santoro. He can still smack a ball with that technique.
Click to expand...

It warms my heart to see a 2HFH / 2HBH player at the challenger level! Too bad he was up against Sock who edged him out in that second set. I'm going to see if I can take a closer look at this guy and pick up any tips. Thanks for the share!

It is extremely rare, in my experience, to even hear about a 2HFH, much less see one at a high level like this (in men's tennis).
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
He get's to because he's playing a better player who knows it.
It's a practice match, nobody really cares.
6.0 guy would get better practice if 5.5 guy was allowed to serve a foot inside his baseline.
 
D

dennis10is

Banned
Not real 5.5. As a falling 1.0 I would have stepped in on their serves, first and second, make contact 6-8 feet in front of baseline for winners.

On my serves, safe third serve, an 8 feet kicker and come in to finish.

They are both 0.5s but solid bench mark 0.5. Notice how they consistently hold the racket on the skinny tube like end and hit the ball with the round part, with strings criss crossing the circular part.

As a falling 1.0, I sometimes get confused and hold the stringy part and hit the the tubular part with the fake leather wrap.
 
Kalin

Kalin

Legend
At this camera angle it is very hard to judge speed of shots.

Also, tennis always looks slower on TV. Watch any top pros play and many of the shots look very gettable even to us. Face these shots in real life and they will just whizz by :)
 
R

RetroSpin

Hall of Fame
Kalin said:
At this camera angle it is very hard to judge speed of shots.

Also, tennis always looks slower on TV. Watch any top pros play and many of the shots look very gettable even to us. Face these shots in real life and they will just whizz by :)
Click to expand...

Very good points.
 
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