Are We Really At The Level ,to Play With Professional Rackets Completely ?

ossamah · Sep 17, 2014

Hi guys greetings,
guys i have been playing tennis for now more than 4 years approx.

Topic i want to discuss today is regarding the professional rackets that we use for our game,

1, Are we really utilizing these rackets completely to their max level ? or we need to switch to more towards bigger head , lite weight head heavy rackets to play our game with still saving enough energy to play more games ?

2, Almost all professional rackets , like aeropro, blades, pure drives , etc requires really a long and fast swings always to play well with them ,
even if u improve our level of game , still we cant reach the professional fitness and game level

What u guys says on this , will be really great to hear feedback from all of u thanks so much . have a great day every day

TimothyO · Sep 17, 2014

The pros don't use the same racquets that we mortals do because they (almost always) heavily modify theirs, at least on the ATP tour.

Here on TT and other sites you can find specs for modified professional frames. They usually add a ton of lead in the hoop and silicone or lead in the handle. Their static weight and/or SW is usually much higher.

So even if they're using a frame available off the shelf the modified specs are very different. Most of the lower ranked pros and juniors do indeed use the retail versions of frames and modify them. Very high ranked pros sometimes have access to OOP frames (eg Nadal IIRC) or have frame specially made for them. And many mid-high level pros use older retail frames painted to look like current models and modified to their favorite specs.

So those "professional" frames that you list are more likely designed for high level rec players in their stock form. It simply doesn't make economic sense to design and sell frames that can't be used by college and high-level rec players in stock form (even then many college and high level rec players modify retail frames with a favorite grip and a little lead in the hoop or handle).

I would also argue that frames that demand better technique can be better for even mid-level and new players. Light, stiff frames with large heads are sometimes necessary in light of an individual's physical limitations. But such frames can mask poor technique which can result in tennis elbow and stunted skill development. Such frames can even prevent skill development since taking a long, full cut at the ball sends the ball into the back fence while the same stroke with a more "demanding" frame will result in an excellent shot. IMO, if you have the physical ability and even a modicum of time to practice then you should use the most demanding frame that you can in order to develop proper tennis skills.

The problem is that most rec players pick up a racquet during their social league tennis matches and maybe once a week to practice during the season (I see that a lot here in Atlanta with ALTA players). So that means they hit during matches maybe 9-16 times per year (3-4 times per season for 3 or 4 seasons per year) and maybe have as many team "practice" sessions (but usually don't go to practice regularly). They don't go to the court to hit a bucket of serves, they don't hit between season with friends or hire pros for private lessons. And so they end up with stunted skills and braces on their elbows and wrists.

JG4tennis · Sep 17, 2014

Thanks, that is great information. I would guess the secret of modifying rackets is in concert with the engineers at the racket manufacturing company that stands to gain from the publicity of the Pro using their racket. This leads me to a bigger question. How come their aren't regulations on tennis rackets like there is for baseball bats or golf clubs?

ossamah · Sep 17, 2014

Nice Thanks for this useful info,
u r rite , i have seen novaks rackets having massive lead tape on its head all the way .

TimothyO · Sep 17, 2014

JG4tennis said:
Thanks, that is great information. I would guess the secret of modifying rackets is in concert with the engineers at the racket manufacturing company that stands to gain from the publicity of the Pro using their racket. This leads me to a bigger question. How come their aren't regulations on tennis rackets like there is for baseball bats or golf clubs?

There are some regulations such as limits on head size and total length. At this point the genie is out of the bottle and I can't see them introducing new rules. Too much money to be made.

I really love your question for another reason.

I wonder if manufacturers design all frames with an expectation that they will be played in stock form or if some are specially designed with the expectation that they NEED to be modified to perform well but are sold without that explicit advice/guidance.

Some frames are referred to as "Platform Frames" in that we tennis gear-heads find that their stock specs are such that they can be modified to something that the hardcore amateur will enjoy. Usually this modified version would be in the 11.5 to 13 ounce range depending on level, skill, and physique. The stock value would be around 11 to 11.5 ounces (maybe 12 ounces for the higher level rec players).

Sometimes I look at a light, low SW frame and can't understand how any manufacturer would expect the frame to play well in the absence of some modification.

anubis · Sep 17, 2014

ossamah said:
Hi guys greetings,
guys i have been playing tennis for now more than 4 years approx.

Topic i want to discuss today is regarding the professional rackets that we use for our game,

1, Are we really utilizing these rackets completely to their max level ? or we need to switch to more towards bigger head , lite weight head heavy rackets to play our game with still saving enough energy to play more games ?

2, Almost all professional rackets , like aeropro, blades, pure drives , etc requires really a long and fast swings always to play well with them ,
even if u improve our level of game , still we cant reach the professional fitness and game level

What u guys says on this , will be really great to hear feedback from all of u thanks so much . have a great day every day

Most people cannot effectively play with pro stock frames -- they're just too much frame. I have a bunch of pro stocks, they are all way too much of everything for me to handle.

I prefer modern, retail frames that I then customize to my liking. But when its all said and done, it's still a far cry from a true pro stock frame.

Most of the 4.5 and 5.0 players that I know and respect also use retail, stock frames such as Pure Drives, Radicals, and K-Factors. If a stock retail frame is good enough for a 5.0, then it should be good enough for everyone below him.

magnut · Sep 17, 2014

frames are fine. Strings are not. No Poly

used to be 10 year olds playing with jack kramers. Pro Frames are just fine to learn with.

JackB1 · Sep 17, 2014

ossamah said:
Hi guys greetings,
guys i have been playing tennis for now more than 4 years approx.

Topic i want to discuss today is regarding the professional rackets that we use for our game,

1, Are we really utilizing these rackets completely to their max level ? or we need to switch to more towards bigger head , lite weight head heavy rackets to play our game with still saving enough energy to play more games ?

2, Almost all professional rackets , like aeropro, blades, pure drives , etc requires really a long and fast swings always to play well with them ,
even if u improve our level of game , still we cant reach the professional fitness and game level

What u guys says on this , will be really great to hear feedback from all of u thanks so much . have a great day every day

This topic has been disussed many time over here...I would suggest a search.
Best answer IMO is to match the ability level to the racquet as closely as possible. Get something not too heavy...not too light...not too powerful...not too low in power. These variables are all individual and depend on many factors. There is no black /white answer to this question.

Say Chi Sin Lo · Sep 17, 2014

... You've only been playing for 4 years, that's nothing.

Some of us have been playing for decades. And I still consider myself as inexperienced after 2 decades of learning and playing and constant learning.

But yeah, I grew up on these "Professional Racquets" so it's nothing to me. Growing up on mids has taught me good, decent strokes, and the importance of footwork and weight transfer.

Honestly, if people have a hard time playing tennis with their Aero Pros, Pure Drive, Big-A** Racquet this and that, then I'm not sure what else can help them?

LeeD · Sep 17, 2014

I play a completely different game than the pros play.
I face softer shots, I hit softer shots, I'm out of condition and much weaker than pros.
Does it sound like I should be using a Pro's racket when there are hundreds of alternatives out on the market?

Ramon · Sep 17, 2014

If you're a 3.0 with a retail Pure Drive, you're also a 3.0 with a custom pro frame. If you're a pro tour player with your own custom frame, you'll still be a quality tour player with the retail version. I use a heavy head light players stick, and the other day I played a spontaneous pick up game with a friend's light weight head heavy game improvement racquet. Guess what? I can still serve aces and play long rallies with it.

I think a lot of people here have distorted views on the effects of customized pro frames and the extent to which they are truly different.

magnut · Sep 17, 2014

LeeD said:
I play a completely different game than the pros play.
I face softer shots, I hit softer shots, I'm out of condition and much weaker than pros.
Does it sound like I should be using a Pro's racket when there are hundreds of alternatives out on the market?

i think the way you hit the ball you could play with just about anything accept a really light granny frame. You shouldnt have any problems with mid sizes to mid plus.

If i was recommending a frame for you it would probably be a mid plus player frame in the 11 1/2 to 12 1/2 ounce range. from there just tinker with it until you get it dialed in. If you can go heavier ...great! i would steer you away from the poly and probably more towards gut. higher stiffness and thicker beams are not going to do anything for you other than placebo maybe and it wont last.

LeeD · Sep 17, 2014

Thanks for the reco..
Until 4 years ago, it was Dunlop 200's, around 12.5 oz and 350 SW's with the strings I use.
Since then, a brief flirtation with 10 oz rackets, then it's been 11 oz , 320 SW's, and 97-100 head sizes. I do have 105 and 107 rackets, for days I'm blind, like the day in the vid.

magnut · Sep 17, 2014

LeeD said:
Thanks for the reco..
Until 4 years ago, it was Dunlop 200's, around 12.5 oz and 350 SW's with the strings I use.
Since then, a brief flirtation with 10 oz rackets, then it's been 11 oz , 320 SW's, and 97-100 head sizes. I do have 105 and 107 rackets, for days I'm blind, like the day in the vid.

i hear ya. when i play lefty there are times I have to go with a mid plus to 103 inch head size and take the weight down a bit. My normal frames are just too powerful and i dont have the same feel with my left side. much more physical on that side relying on spin for control instead of timing and drive time.

If i am out on the ball machine working out lefty I go with a standard 65 inch head size as it pretty much forces you to hit the ball correctly. against people though...forget it.

sureshs · Sep 17, 2014

JG4tennis said:
How come their aren't regulations on tennis rackets like there is for baseball bats or golf clubs?

There are. Length and head size are limited.

TennisCJC · Sep 17, 2014

As TimO said, retail rackets are not the same as pro rackets. A high percentage of pros use customized rackets. I took a stringers log pull off TT with 43 pros and the AVERAGE strung weight was 12.6 oz. Even if you took only retail "players" rackets, the average is not going to be near 12.6 oz. I think the RF97 is the only retail frame with a spec weight of 12.6 oz.

Personally, unless you are young, fit, play 4.5+ and practice a lot; I don't think you should use a racket with true pro specs as the swing weight and static weight are simply too heavy for mere mortals. And, LeeD has a good point, you don't face 120 mph serves and 80 mph forehands and don't need as heavy a racket as the pros.

On the other hand, I think racket manufacturers are making "players" rackets too light. SW should be at least 320 grams for good 4.0 and above level tennis in my view and we are now seeing a lot of players' rackets with SW below 315. The PS95 is a good example of a "players" racket with a SW that is too low at 305-310. The TF ATP 315 is another example of a players racket with too low SW.

Chief · Sep 17, 2014

magnut said:
frames are fine. Strings are not. No Poly

used to be 10 year olds playing with jack kramers. Pro Frames are just fine to learn with.

Yeah I agree with the Poly statement. I see too many rec players hitting with full bed polys and they wonder why they have shoulder or elbow issues.

Not to mention having to swing harder and having more errors because of the low powered setup.

JackB1 · Sep 17, 2014

JG4tennis said:
Thanks, that is great information. I would guess the secret of modifying rackets is in concert with the engineers at the racket manufacturing company that stands to gain from the publicity of the Pro using their racket. This leads me to a bigger question. How come their aren't regulations on tennis rackets like there is for baseball bats or golf clubs?

Who said there wasn't

http://officialtennisrules.com/category/rules-on-the-tennis-racket/

Length: the frame of the tennis racket shall not exceed 29 inches (73.7 cm) in overall length, including the handle.
Width: the frame of the tennis racket shall not exceed 12.5 inches (31.7 cm) in overall width.
Hitting Surface: the hitting surface shall not exceed 15.5 inches (39.4 cm) in overall length and 11.5 inches (29.2 cm) in overall width.

magnut · Sep 17, 2014

Chief said:
Yeah I agree with the Poly statement. I see too many rec players hitting with full bed polys and they wonder why they have shoulder or elbow issues.

Not to mention having to swing harder and having more errors because of the low powered setup.

thats because pros tell them they need more racquet head speed.

that has to be my favorite tip......just swing faster....yeah OK .....LOL.

JackB1 · Sep 17, 2014

LeeD said:
Thanks for the reco..
Until 4 years ago, it was Dunlop 200's, around 12.5 oz and 350 SW's with the strings I use.
Since then, a brief flirtation with 10 oz rackets, then it's been 11 oz , 320 SW's, and 97-100 head sizes. I do have 105 and 107 rackets, for days I'm blind, like the day in the vid.

Don't feel bad. If everyone on these boards posted video of themselves playing, everyone would be much more humble and tempered in their criticism of others.
The fact is that noone is as good in reality as they are inside their own head. You need to see yourself on video to really appreciate that fact. Until you do, your perception of how good you are is totally skewed.

magnut · Sep 17, 2014

JackB1 said:
Don't feel bad. If everyone on these boards posted video of themselves playing, everyone would be much more humble and tempered in their criticism of others.
The fact is that noone is as good in reality as they are inside their own head. You need to see yourself on video to really appreciate that fact. Until you do, your perception of how good you are is totally skewed.

absolutely. i used to record myself all the time. i made it a point never to record students and show them unless they were very dedicated. They are out there visualizing federer and get so discourage they dont want to play anymore.

Older women are the funniest. You can see it on there faces when they realize those short skirts just dont cut it on the court like they do in the department store. If you do show them just make sure you tell them they look sexy or graceful out there. Then take them out for a beer. Do not tell them they look like a drunk, three legged, elephant on crytal meth. Thats Not good.

Say Chi Sin Lo · Sep 17, 2014

JackB1 said:
Don't feel bad. If everyone on these boards posted video of themselves playing, everyone would be much more humble and tempered in their criticism of others.
The fact is that noone is as good in reality as they are inside their own head. You need to see yourself on video to really appreciate that fact. Until you do, your perception of how good you are is totally skewed.

I posted a video of myself playing. I think my reality matches my description here.

Mick · Sep 17, 2014

i bought a racquet that Sharapova had played with from the auction site.
I played with it a few times and gave up because it was too heavy :shock:

magnut · Sep 17, 2014

Say Chi Sin Lo said:
I posted a video of myself playing. I think my reality matches my description here.

just under rate yourself and be done with it.

people here get really hung up on ratings. i dont even really care if i am trying to get a hit in. i will hit the ball right to people and keep it in there strike zone as long as they can keep it in play. i dont even care if they are male or female.

Say Chi Sin Lo · Sep 17, 2014

magnut said:
just under rate yourself and be done with it.

people here get really hung up on ratings. i dont even really care if i am trying to get a hit in. i will hit the ball right to people and keep it in there strike zone as long as they can keep it in play. i dont even care if they are male or female.

I feel like there should be a rule in the "Tennis Tip" section:

One cannot criticize and correct people unless they post a video of themselves playing.

magnut · Sep 17, 2014

Say Chi Sin Lo said:
I feel like there should be a rule in the "Tennis Tip" section:

One cannot criticize and correct people unless they post a video of themselves playing.

yeah maybe. i can usually tell within a few posts if a poster knows what they are talking about or are just full of it. same goes for teaching pros, tennis players etc.

you cant BS me.

yangster007 · Sep 17, 2014

ossamah said:
Hi guys greetings,
guys i have been playing tennis for now more than 4 years approx.

Topic i want to discuss today is regarding the professional rackets that we use for our game,

1, Are we really utilizing these rackets completely to their max level ? or we need to switch to more towards bigger head , lite weight head heavy rackets to play our game with still saving enough energy to play more games ?

2, Almost all professional rackets , like aeropro, blades, pure drives , etc requires really a long and fast swings always to play well with them ,
even if u improve our level of game , still we cant reach the professional fitness and game level

What u guys says on this , will be really great to hear feedback from all of u thanks so much . have a great day every day

Andy Murray is literally 4 twigs tied together, and he's still swinging a 400 swingweight rated racquet

droliver · Sep 17, 2014

Don't the women pretty much play with stock racquets?

Pepper · Sep 17, 2014

TimothyO said:
The pros don't use the same racquets that we mortals do because they (almost always) heavily modify theirs, at least on the ATP tour.

Here on TT and other sites you can find specs for modified professional frames. They usually add a ton of lead in the hoop and silicone or lead in the handle. Their static weight and/or SW is usually much higher.

So even if they're using a frame available off the shelf the modified specs are very different. Most of the lower ranked pros and juniors do indeed use the retail versions of frames and modify them. Very high ranked pros sometimes have access to OOP frames (eg Nadal IIRC) or have frame specially made for them. And many mid-high level pros use older retail frames painted to look like current models and modified to their favorite specs.

So those "professional" frames that you list are more likely designed for high level rec players in their stock form. It simply doesn't make economic sense to design and sell frames that can't be used by college and high-level rec players in stock form (even then many college and high level rec players modify retail frames with a favorite grip and a little lead in the hoop or handle).

I would also argue that frames that demand better technique can be better for even mid-level and new players. Light, stiff frames with large heads are sometimes necessary in light of an individual's physical limitations. But such frames can mask poor technique which can result in tennis elbow and stunted skill development. Such frames can even prevent skill development since taking a long, full cut at the ball sends the ball into the back fence while the same stroke with a more "demanding" frame will result in an excellent shot. IMO, if you have the physical ability and even a modicum of time to practice then you should use the most demanding frame that you can in order to develop proper tennis skills.

The problem is that most rec players pick up a racquet during their social league tennis matches and maybe once a week to practice during the season (I see that a lot here in Atlanta with ALTA players). So that means they hit during matches maybe 9-16 times per year (3-4 times per season for 3 or 4 seasons per year) and maybe have as many team "practice" sessions (but usually don't go to practice regularly). They don't go to the court to hit a bucket of serves, they don't hit between season with friends or hire pros for private lessons. And so they end up with stunted skills and braces on their elbows and wrists.

I didn't want to start with a beginner frame and seeing someone validate this is nice. I feel I am a much better player now.

yangster007 · Sep 18, 2014

droliver said:
Don't the women pretty much play with stock racquets?

Not Serena Williams.

robbo1970 · Sep 18, 2014

yangster007 said:
Andy Murray is literally 4 twigs tied together, and he's still swinging a 400 swingweight rated racquet

Compared to who? Murray is pretty big now. He used to be slim but he's bulked up a lot.

I think we should use the racquets we enjoy using. It's about walking off the court having had fun.

JackB1 · Sep 18, 2014

yangster007 said:
Andy Murray is literally 4 twigs tied together, and he's still swinging a 400 swingweight rated racquet

He's 6"3 185 lbs and in incredible shape and works out way more than most any of us do. Plus he has proper technique and incredible footwork which allows him to succesfully use heavy racquets.

There more to it than that.

movdqa · Sep 18, 2014

TennisCJC said:
As TimO said, retail rackets are not the same as pro rackets. A high percentage of pros use customized rackets. I took a stringers log pull off TT with 43 pros and the AVERAGE strung weight was 12.6 oz. Even if you took only retail "players" rackets, the average is not going to be near 12.6 oz. I think the RF97 is the only retail frame with a spec weight of 12.6 oz.

I think that the PK Ki5 PSE is 12.9 ounces.

movdqa · Sep 18, 2014

Andy Murray's strength-training routine:

http://www.menshealth.co.uk/building-muscle/get-big/andy-murrays-strength-session

It's brutal. I suspect that I run more miles than Murray does but he spends a lot more time on strength-training.

movdqa · Sep 18, 2014

Mick said:
i bought a racquet that Sharapova had played with from the auction site.
I played with it a few times and gave up because it was too heavy :shock:

C'mon! You can't handle an 11 ounce frame with a swingweight of 310? Hit the gym, dude!

:mrgreen:
:wink:

JackB1 · Sep 18, 2014

movdqa said:
C'mon! You can't handle an 11 ounce frame with a swingweight of 310? Hit the gym, dude!

:mrgreen:
:wink:

TO be fair, Head's specs can be all over the place. I was also shopping this racquet at one point and most weighed near 330 grams strung and had swingweights around 325 or more.

Rabbit · Sep 18, 2014

It isn't how strong they are. It's how good their timing is. If you get tired swinging a 12 ounce racquet, it's due to the fact that you're muscling the ball too much. The key to playing tennis is to keep a live, loose arm through your strokes. The only time you should really have a tense arm is on the volley and that isn't for that long.

A friend of mine and I took a lesson last night. We worked on backhands and serves. My friend was trying to learn how to hit a more conventional backhand and to do so with topspin. He's basically a flat ball hitter and while uber consistent, he lacks real weapons. Now that he's getting older, he'd like to do less running and be more offensive.

Anyway afterward (and over a beer), he said he had trouble brushing up over the ball and that his arm hurt. I told him he was gripping the racquet too tightly and he said "Yeah, I was". I told him that it was impossible to really accelerate your wrist if your arm was tense and the key was to keep a live arm. He agreed, but was so intent on getting the motion right, he just unintentionally had a hammer lock on the racquet.

It's really can be counter intuitive, but to hit the ball harder and with more spin, you need to relax your arm! And the only thing that'll be worn out is your legs!

movdqa · Sep 18, 2014

JackB1 said:
TO be fair, Head's specs can be all over the place. I was also shopping this racquet at one point and most weighed near 330 grams strung and had swingweights around 325 or more.

I was only kidding and I'm pretty sure that he knows it. Sharapova uses a YT Radical Pro, painted to look like an Instinct.

movdqa · Sep 18, 2014

Rabbit said:
It isn't how strong they are. It's how good their timing is. If you get tired swinging a 12 ounce racquet, it's due to the fact that you're muscling the ball too much. The key to playing tennis is to keep a live, loose arm through your strokes. The only time you should really have a tense arm is on the volley and that isn't for that long.

I think that regular time in the gym improves your tennis performance, assuming that your skills are decent.

Here's a video of a rec player using a pro racquet. The racquet is 386 SW. The static weight is around 13.25.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMJ65FQ79hs

Here's a sample gym exercise to maintain fitness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=904Y9SwH-84

Ramon · Sep 18, 2014

robbo1970 said:
Compared to who? Murray is pretty big now. He used to be slim but he's bulked up a lot.

I think we should use the racquets we enjoy using. It's about walking off the court having had fun.

I agree. Murray follows a training regimen that includes weight training, and he is heavily muscled up now.

I'm an average sized guy, and my racquet used to be modified to a 380+ swingweight. I didn't even realized it until I measured it. Honestly, these pro frames are not as extreme as people here think they are.

Rabbit · Sep 18, 2014

movdqa said:
I think that regular time in the gym improves your tennis performance, assuming that your skills are decent.

Here's a video of a rec player using a pro racquet. The racquet is 386 SW. The static weight is around 13.25.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMJ65FQ79hs

Here's a sample gym exercise to maintain fitness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=904Y9SwH-84

Sorry, never meant to imply going to the gym was pointless. Any activity is good! What I was trying to say is that the weight of a racquet and your effectiveness with it is more a factor of timing than strength. Most anyone can get stronger, timing can't be taught.

Fintft · Sep 18, 2014

ossamah said:
Hi guys greetings,
guys i have been playing tennis for now more than 4 years approx.

Topic i want to discuss today is regarding the professional rackets that we use for our game,

1, Are we really utilizing these rackets completely to their max level ? or we need to switch to more towards bigger head , lite weight head heavy rackets to play our game with still saving enough energy to play more games ?

2, Almost all professional rackets , like aeropro, blades, pure drives , etc requires really a long and fast swings always to play well with them ,
even if u improve our level of game , still we cant reach the professional fitness and game level

What u guys says on this , will be really great to hear feedback from all of u thanks so much . have a great day every day

As other posters pointed out to you: the stock frames we buy in stores are lighter then what the pros use...

Putting that aside: yes, I take some (if not full) advantage of "players rackets", such as Wilson BLX 95, or Babolat AeroStorm Tour.

From the ones you've mentioned, although I've toyed with them, I ended up not buying them for myself (APD, Pure Drive, Head IG Speed MP 315/Graphene Speed), b/c I wanted something heavier (with more static weight, but with the low enough swing weight- head light, for control and manoeuvrability). I may be losing something on my second serve and on volleys, but for baseline play, with a modern ATP FH and 1H BH at 220 LBS and 6'2" (former power forward in basketball- kinda build like Tsonga), I think that they fit me and my attacking game.

Fintft · Sep 18, 2014

magnut said:
just under rate yourself and be done with it.

people here get really hung up on ratings. i dont even really care if i am trying to get a hit in. i will hit the ball right to people and keep it in there strike zone as long as they can keep it in play. i dont even care if they are male or female.

Very well said and I got many friends like you, it's a joy to fine tune your shots against them, like a free tennis lesson (in turn I try to do the same with the players weaker then me).

Fintft · Sep 18, 2014

Rabbit said:
It isn't how strong they are. It's how good their timing is. If you get tired swinging a 12 ounce racquet, it's due to the fact that you're muscling the ball too much. The key to playing tennis is to keep a live, loose arm through your strokes. The only time you should really have a tense arm is on the volley and that isn't for that long.

A friend of mine and I took a lesson last night. We worked on backhands and serves. My friend was trying to learn how to hit a more conventional backhand and to do so with topspin. He's basically a flat ball hitter and while uber consistent, he lacks real weapons. Now that he's getting older, he'd like to do less running and be more offensive.

Anyway afterward (and over a beer), he said he had trouble brushing up over the ball and that his arm hurt. I told him he was gripping the racquet too tightly and he said "Yeah, I was". I told him that it was impossible to really accelerate your wrist if your arm was tense and the key was to keep a live arm. He agreed, but was so intent on getting the motion right, he just unintentionally had a hammer lock on the racquet.

It's really can be counter intuitive, but to hit the ball harder and with more spin, you need to relax your arm! And the only thing that'll be worn out is your legs!

Bonjour le Lapin, ahem Rabbit!

I see we have the same stick and open pattern

What you're saying it makes perfect sense, yet around 95% of the members of my tennis club do that, only the ones at the top of the ladder (or outside of it) have loose arms (i.e. with that delayed arm on the ATP style FH etc. Same probably goes for the BH).

Personally that's why I try to improve my technique and treat even matches as practice (my place is no higher then in the second ladder) AND I'm totally aware that my movement (or the lack there off ) is my greatest weakenss...

Cheers!

BreakPoint · Sep 18, 2014

ossamah said:
2, Almost all professional rackets , like aeropro, blades, pure drives , etc requires really a long and fast swings always to play well with them ,
even if u improve our level of game , still we cant reach the professional fitness and game level

Wow, if you feel those racquets require long fast swings then I assume you've never played with a racquet like the PS 6.0 85, Tour 90, or PK Redondo Mid?

Fintft · Sep 18, 2014

BreakPoint said:
Wow, if you feel those racquets require long fast swings then I assume you've never played with a racquet like the PS 6.0 85, Tour 90, or PK Redondo Mid?

That's what I was thinking

Loved the K90, especially on the FHs...But never owned one.

Captain Ron · Sep 18, 2014

If we can't handle the same racquets as the pros, why play with the same balls?
Forget Wilson USO or propenn/ATP, let's all play with the can of pennchamps we opened last week.

Seriously, you don't need to play with what the pros use but if you have remotely decent form there is no reason you can't.
Let's stop making excuses about gear and hit the courts

I'll bring a fresh can of Wilson USOs

rh310 · Sep 18, 2014

^^^ absolutely true on video. I record myself once a week, and there are two truths I see in my case:

1. I do not look like I think I look, although it's getting better

2. Improvement takes longer than I think it does

movdqa · Sep 18, 2014

Rabbit said:
It isn't how strong they are. It's how good their timing is. If you get tired swinging a 12 ounce racquet, it's due to the fact that you're muscling the ball too much. The key to playing tennis is to keep a live, loose arm through your strokes. The only time you should really have a tense arm is on the volley and that isn't for that long.

I think that timing is easier on high-swingweight racquets than on low-swingweight racquets. High-swingweight racquets require better preparation though.

rh310 · Sep 18, 2014

Rabbit said:
Sorry, never meant to imply going to the gym was pointless. Any activity is good! What I was trying to say is that the weight of a racquet and your effectiveness with it is more a factor of timing than strength. Most anyone can get stronger, timing can't be taught.

Good point about how important timing is to this. Timing can't be taught, but it can be improved.

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