Waiter's Tray vs High Level Serving Technique- What's Out There?

LeeD · Aug 22, 2015

Waiter's tray serve is not the worse you can have.
My bud can serve 10 mph faster than me using it.
I have another bud on the Albert's Park 4.0 team with waiter tray. He exceeds 100 with top/slice spin, but doesn't hit flats. Another 6'1" ape armed dude. Loose wrist, whippy wristy motion for both.

robok9 · Aug 22, 2015

Is it just me or does Bernard Tomic have a waiter's tray serve. Somehow, he makes it work, but I suspect he will have a lot of shoulder issues later in the future.

heninfan99 · Aug 23, 2015

No but he doesn't tilt his shoulders very much which can cause impingement of the shoulder muscles.

robok9 said:
Is it just me or does Bernard Tomic have a waiter's tray serve. Somehow, he makes it work, but I suspect he will have a lot of shoulder issues later in the future.

JackB1 · Aug 23, 2015

heninfan99 said:
thats great. The racquet drop is sweet. Can your more vertical, straight up.
Youre going a bit like / I need you to go I

And faster & looser. You should hear a swoosh as you naturally pronate.
I can't see if you pronating on the finish.

you mentioned tomaz/feel tennis. Did you know any of his pronation drills?
"smacking in the ground" is a good one 13:37 in

I will work on swinging more vertical. Also on faster and looser. Yes I am pronating through the contact zone.

JackB1 · Aug 23, 2015

heninfan99 said:
Agreed but he's close. I actually won 3.5 league 9 years ago with a waiters serve but he seems to really want to "fix" his serve but he serves fine now.

JackB feel free to PM me, though it is hard to fix via the internets I'm happy to help if I can.

I can, but why not do it here so others can benefit too?

heninfan99 · Aug 23, 2015

that's fine but I"m publicly walking back from my statement that you can improve it in two weeks. I was wrong. Sorry about that.

Many people can fix it two weeks and many people can't for many reasons.

Chas Tennis · Aug 23, 2015

JackB1,

You don't have a Waiter's Tray or a high level technique. Your technique is one of the 30%+/- other miscellaneous techniques. The characteristics are clear in your Dec 2014 high speed video. This is a very good, on topic, example of what is out there.

* very inadequate external shoulder rotation and, therefore, little pre-stretch of the muscles used for internal shoulder rotation.
* likely a much too small angle between the forearm and racket (that angle also changes rapidly).
* limited internal shoulder rotation can be seen by the shadows at the elbow and forearm but ISR seems very late and since there is likely no forearm-racket angle, little racket head speed results.

Can you see these things in your videos? If not, you might put some more time into video analysis of your serve videos.

With all the interest it might be a good time to update your videos in bright sunlight and start another thread for analyzing your serve and discussing the drills. ?

JackB1 · Aug 23, 2015

heninfan99 said:
that's fine but I"m publicly walking back from my statement that you can improve it in two weeks. I was wrong. Sorry about that.

Many people can fix it two weeks and many people can't for many reasons.

haha. There aren't too many adult rec players that can eliminate a serious serve technique flaw in 2 weeks.

heninfan99 · Aug 23, 2015

Don't misquote me
You don't have a "serious flaw" in your technique just a regular flaw(s).
You have a more serious flaw with your mental approach & attitude.

1. too many cooks
2. too many useless questions and talking yourself out of it
3. No belief
= failure

JackB1 said:
haha. There aren't too many adult rec players that can eliminate a serious serve technique flaw in 2 weeks.

JackB1 · Aug 23, 2015

Chas Tennis said:
JackB1,

You don't have a Waiter's Tray or a high level technique. Your technique is one of the 30%+/- other miscellaneous techniques. The characteristics are clear in your Dec 2014 high speed video. This is a good on topic example of what is out there.

* very inadequate external shoulder rotation and therefore little pre-stretch of the muscles used for internal shoulder rotation.
* likely a much too small angle between the forearm and racket.
* some internal shoulder rotation can be seen by the shadows at the elbow but it seems very late and since there may be no forearm-racket angle little racket head speed results.

Can you see these things in your videos? If not, you might put some more time into video analysis of your serve videos.

With all the interest it might be a good time to update your videos in bright sunlight and start another thread for analyzing your serve and discussing the drills. ?

I think I might just have to face the cold truth that this is about as good as it will get for my serve and focus instead on placement and changing speeds, etc. At my level (4.0) it doesn't hurt me and usually helps me more than it hurts. There are many guys I play that have worse serves who win a lot. I think my main issue is lack of flexibility in the shoulder. Its very hard for me to get my leading elbow up and get my forearm horizontal.

willeric · Aug 23, 2015

This discussion confuses a lot of basic techniques. Is "Waiter Tray" the same as "Frying Pan"? Typically "Waiter's Tray" refers to using a eastern forehand grip which eliminates the possibility of pronation. However, you can still (and probably will) use ISR with a "Waiter's Tray" Eastern Grip serve. In fact it may actually be easier to "ISR" since it's identical to throwing a ball in a horizontal direction.

Then there is "Waiter Tray" with a continental grip which is caused by excessive and early wrist extension. So "Waiter's Tray" is either caused by using an eastern grip or having excessive wrist extension using a continental grip. ISR had nothing to do with this and instead is a rotation of the upper arm.

heninfan99 · Aug 23, 2015

JackB1 said:
I think I might just have to face the cold truth that this is about as good as it will get for my serve and focus instead on placement and changing speeds, etc. At my level (4.0) it doesn't hurt me and usually helps me more than it hurts. There are many guys I play that have worse serves who win a lot. I think my main issue is lack of flexibility in the shoulder. Its very hard for me to get my leading elbow up and get my forearm horizontal.

utter nonsense and excuses

LeeD · Aug 23, 2015

Listen to Heninfan99 again.
Tight shoulder means nothing.
Flex test, my fingertips are easily 13" apart. My g/f can interlock.
Loose grip and loop swing gives the racket drop.

Chas Tennis · Aug 23, 2015

JackB1 said:
I think I might just have to face the cold truth that this is about as good as it will get for my serve and focus instead on placement and changing speeds, etc. At my level (4.0) it doesn't hurt me and usually helps me more than it hurts. There are many guys I play that have worse serves who win a lot. I think my main issue is lack of flexibility in the shoulder. Its very hard for me to get my leading elbow up and get my forearm horizontal.

If you have a lack of shoulder flexibility that could be the most significant factor - the normal serve characteristics for the normal shoulder do not apply. You can measure the flexibility of your shoulder's external shoulder rotation. There are Youtubes on how to measure external shoulder rotation.

You can search for the normal ranges of motion for external and internal shoulder rotation or any other joint motions. See how your shoulder compares.

RetroSpin · Aug 23, 2015

JackB1 said:
I have tried almost everything and it's far from easy to fix. Here are a couple of serves I
just during my lunch break. Still looks pretty bad

Jack, you have worked on this a lot and seem to have a lot of videos of your serve, but have you ever compared your motion from the back with a top pro server? I wish you would do that and let us know what you conclude.

Chas Tennis · Aug 23, 2015

willeric said:
This discussion confuses a lot of basic techniques. Is "Waiter Tray" the same as "Frying Pan"? Typically "Waiter's Tray" refers to using a eastern forehand grip which eliminates the possibility of pronation. However, you can still (and probably will) use ISR with a "Waiter's Tray" Eastern Grip serve. In fact it may actually be easier to "ISR" since it's identical to throwing a ball in a horizontal direction.

Then there is "Waiter Tray" with a continental grip which is caused by excessive and early wrist extension. So "Waiter's Tray" is either caused by using an eastern grip or having excessive wrist extension using a continental grip. ISR had nothing to do with this and instead is a rotation of the upper arm.

I agree with this usage for Waiter's Tray. This is my usage.
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/big_l_student.php

The usage of tennis terms is chaotic and inconsistent. I would like to include some of the other terms - Pancake Serve, Housewife's Serve, Frying Pan Serve, etc. which I believe - but do not know - are being used for the same technique that recently on this forum has most often been called the Waiter's Tray. I especially don't know much about the "Frying Pan Serve" and the usage of the term.

Waiter's Tray is often addressed in instruction. But this thread was started to get some idea of how wide spread WT is. Apparently, 50%, more or less, of tennis players are using a Waiter's Tray, the technique as shown above. I now recognize it by eye by looking for the face on orientation of the racket face when it accelerates forward to the ball. Start looking, you'll see it. To me, that very early face on orientation that continues to impact means little or no ISR occurred.

If you have some additional information on these terms please let us know, but also please provide some references to others using these terms in a similar way.

Can you show us a clear high speed video with Waiter's Tray and ISR to illustrate what you are referring to?

RetroSpin · Aug 23, 2015

dgold44 said:
Amazing how few pros can correctly teach the serve.

All my past pros were good at groundies, slice and volleys but terrible at serve.

This has been my experience as well. I think the reason is tennis pros are typically very good players, which usually means they were good athletes who took up tennis at a young age. They have trouble translating what is an instinctive motion to them into a "feel" that adult rec players can incorporate.

Then there is the hostility many of them seem to have to people who try to break down the complex motions into biomechanically accurate terms. They seem to think telling adults to "snap the wrist" and "keep the elbow loose" wil do it. obviously, for the vast majority it won't.

willeric · Aug 23, 2015

Chas Tennis said:
I agree with this usage for Waiter's Tray. This is my usage.
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/big_l_student.php

The usage of tennis terms is chaotic. I would like to include some of the other terms - Pancake Serve, Housewife's Serve, Frying Pan Serve, etc. which I believe - but do not know - are being used for the same technique that recently on this forum has most often been caller the Waiter's Tray. WT is addressed in instruction but this thread was started to get some idea of how wide spread WT is. Apparently, 50% of the tennis players are using a Waiter's Tray, the technique as shown above. I now recognize it by eye by looking for the orientation of the racket face when it accelerates forward to the ball. Start looking, you'll see it.

Can you show us a clear high speed video with Waiter's Tray and ISR to illustrate what you are referring to?

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/big_l_student.php - This looks to be a problem with wrist extension and trying to use wrist flexion to accelerate the racquet head.

I'm not sure if they are using the term pronation to mean "wrist rotation" or ISR (upper arm rotation). If the arm is straight they both do the same thing.

I don't have any high speed videos of someone with an eastern grip serving. I think it's going to look very close to someone throwing a ball horizontally:

. But I think it's why "low level" players can actually hit quite fast servers (especially if they played baseball) with an eastern grip - it's like throwing a ball. And then when they try to move to a continental grip, they have nothing to base the motion off of.

Chas Tennis · Aug 23, 2015

"Frying Pan Grip" term usage by Frank Dinoffer. That looks like a Waiter's Tray to me.
http://on.aol.com/video/how-to-do-the-frying-pan-grip-in-tennis-27820389

RetroSpin · Aug 23, 2015

willeric said:
... But I think it's why "low level" players can actually hit quite fast servers (especially if they played baseball) with an eastern grip - it's like throwing a ball. And then when they try to move to a continental grip, they have nothing to base the motion off of.

I agree. They have trouble because they want to use a throwing motion, with level shoulders, hand outside their shoulder and upright torso. Sound like anyone we know?

Chas Tennis · Aug 23, 2015

willeric said:
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/big_l_student.php - This looks to be a problem with wrist extension and trying to use wrist flexion to accelerate the racquet head.

I'm not sure if they are using the term pronation to mean "wrist rotation" or ISR (upper arm rotation). ..........................

............................................................ I think it's going to look very close to someone throwing a ball horizontally:

. But I think it's why "low level" players can actually hit quite fast servers (especially if they played baseball) with an eastern grip - it's like throwing a ball. And then when they try to move to a continental grip, they have nothing to base the motion off of.

By "pronation" in reality he means powerful internal shoulder rotation and some forearm pronation.

Thread comparing throwing and serving -
http://asmiforum.proboards.com/thread/2104/shoulder-orientation-overhead-baseball-tennis

See the girl practicing the upper arm rotation (ISR) by both throwing and serving, compare what the upper arm is doing, the ISR. For the throw, hand speed for the ball is developed from upper arm rotation from the angle of the elbow, that is, the forearm is at an angle. For the tennis serve, the arm is more straight and the racket head speed is developed by the angle between the forearm and racket, the racket is at an angle. (In her case, the forearm is also at an angle.) High level servers use a rapidly changing angle between the forearm and racket and their arm is near straight arm approaching impact. See high speed videos for details during this 25 milliseconds. Besides the upper arm rotation there are separate joint motions that also swing the racket head forward.

My view is that for a Waiter's Tray serve the upper arm rotation is nearly absent and that is why the pace is less. Even the percent difference in pace between a good WT and high level serve seems to fit this view based on measurements by Elliott et al, that is, ISR contributes 40% to racket head speed. That 40% is missing for a WT.

Biomechanics and Tennis. B. Elliott. See Table #2.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577481/

JackB1 · Aug 23, 2015

heninfan99 said:
utter nonsense and excuses

YOU are the one who changed his mind and said I couldn't be fixed in 2 weeks!
It's just that I've tried almost everything and have only seen very minor improvements.

TennisCJC · Aug 23, 2015

I think Jack needs to go more like \ rather than vertical | as heninfan requested. Jack's practice swing is like / now. Jack do the continuous serve drill and get your hand outside of contact so the line from your hand to contact looks like \. Get the handle of the racket to be to the R of contact. Hit up and to the R even on 1st serves but just not as severely up and to the R like you would on a 2nd serve.

WildVolley · Aug 23, 2015

JackB1 said:
YOU are the one who changed his mind and said I couldn't be fixed in 2 weeks!
It's just that I've tried almost everything and have only seen very minor improvements.

I agree that fixing your serve isn't going to be an easy process. On a positive note, you do enter the drop with a bend in the arm now. However, the timing pattern still isn't right and you pull the racket into the ball before it can drop.

I don't think it is impossible for you to learn a better drop, but you might have to work with someone to do it. Unlike some people, I know you've made a fairly serious effort into changing your form, so your current pattern is a pretty strong habit.

LeeD · Aug 23, 2015

Lucky for JackB1, he can ROS, he can volley, he can hit groundstrokes, and he stays a way from walkabouts.

dgold44 · Aug 23, 2015

Lee, I actually tried to follow the ball "edge on" and then turn it the last second. I noticed about 7-10 mph increase in power almost instantly. It felt very weird and I hit many serves in the net but the truth is obvious. IT works.

heninfan99 · Aug 24, 2015

you mentally tapped out two days in. never got to two weeks.
You can't do it because of mental issues. Nothing physically is wrong and tight shoulders are not the cause.

there is only do or do not, there is no try.

JackB1 said:
YOU are the one who changed his mind and said I couldn't be fixed in 2 weeks!
It's just that I've tried almost everything and have only seen very minor improvements.

JackB1 · Aug 24, 2015

Chas Tennis said:
If you have a lack of shoulder flexibility that could be the most significant factor - the normal serve characteristics for the normal shoulder do not apply. You can measure the flexibility of your shoulder's external shoulder rotation. There are Youtubes on how to measure external shoulder rotation.

You can search for the normal ranges of motion for external and internal shoulder rotation or any other joint motions. See how your shoulder compares.

I tried this and upwards I go only go a little past straight up. If were talking about a clock, it would be to around 1'.
Going downward about the same...to 5 oclock.

JackB1 · Aug 24, 2015

WildVolley said:
I agree that fixing your serve isn't going to be an easy process. On a positive note, you do enter the drop with a bend in the arm now. However, the timing pattern still isn't right and you pull the racket into the ball before it can drop.

I don't think it is impossible for you to learn a better drop, but you might have to work with someone to do it. Unlike some people, I know you've made a fairly serious effort into changing your form, so your current pattern is a pretty strong habit.

I am totally willing to work on it, but I have to be realistic too.

JackB1 · Aug 24, 2015

TennisCJC said:
I think Jack needs to go more like \ rather than vertical | as heninfan requested. Jack's practice swing is like / now. Jack do the continuous serve drill and get your hand outside of contact so the line from your hand to contact looks like \. Get the handle of the racket to be to the R of contact. Hit up and to the R even on 1st serves but just not as severely up and to the R like you would on a 2nd serve.

I'll try it CJC. Thanks.

Chas Tennis · Aug 24, 2015

Reply in thread on forearm-racket angle. JackB1 take a look.

Chas Tennis said:
Not sure yet, but I believe that servers who swing their hand at the ball will be more often using a Waiter's Tray or one of the techniques where they do ISR and pronation but have little angle between the forearm and racket.

But for all high level serves the hand tracks at quite an angle to the ball's trajectory as the Salazar pictures show. Notice the path of the hand to the side and imagine the ball's trajectory. (Unfortunately, the ball's trajectory is not in these pictures, search Fuzzy Yellow Ball's Salazar Slice videos, etc to see the trajectories.)

(Ironically, from this view the racket head seems to start by going 'Up and IN' relative to the player or ball trajectory. Does this conflict with the advice to 'Hit up and out'.)

If you swing your hand too much directly at and under the ball it is hard to have a forearm-racket angle.

Maybe the trained hand path is one of the issues that make transitioning from the Waiter's Tray technique to a high level serve difficult.

GuyClinch · Aug 24, 2015

if you just want drop - you do not need that much shoulder flexibility.

For example..

Also FWIW I disagree with the random denigration of coaching here. 10 lessons with say the serve doctor would totally fix JackBs serve. You don't need a biomechanical breakdown to hit a good serve... You don't need to know any biomechanics. Tennis really is a sport.

LakeSnake · Aug 24, 2015

GuyClinch said:
if you just want drop - you do not need that much shoulder flexibility.

For example..

Also FWIW I disagree with the random denigration of coaching here. 10 lessons with say the serve doctor would totally fix JackBs serve. You don't need a biomechanical breakdown to hit a good serve... You don't need to know any biomechanics. Tennis really is a sport.

I spent a lot of time doing the "dangle" because that was the only way I could think of to ensure I wasn't waitering it. But it looks like I need to work on the "sprinkler" move, as I don't think I really get any rotation.

JackB1 · Aug 24, 2015

I noticed when Freeman demonstrated the full serve, there was no "dangle"...he had a full grip on the handle.

another similar drill is instead of the "dangle", you just grip the racquet with 2 or 3 fingers.

RetroSpin · Aug 24, 2015

GuyClinch said:
if you just want drop - you do not need that much shoulder flexibility.

For example..

Also FWIW I disagree with the random denigration of coaching here. 10 lessons with say the serve doctor would totally fix JackBs serve. You don't need a biomechanical breakdown to hit a good serve... You don't need to know any biomechanics. Tennis really is a sport.

You or the serve doctor may be the world's greatest coaches. The other poster and I were reporting our personal experiences that many pros are fine at teaching groundstrokes, etc but are total fails at teaching serve. If that is not your experience, great but I think it is far more common than perhaps you realize.

RetroSpin · Aug 24, 2015

TennisCJC said:
I think Jack needs to go more like \ rather than vertical | as heninfan requested. Jack's practice swing is like / now. Jack do the continuous serve drill and get your hand outside of contact so the line from your hand to contact looks like \. Get the handle of the racket to be to the R of contact. Hit up and to the R even on 1st serves but just not as severely up and to the R like you would on a 2nd serve.

This is a key point and I am pretty sure Jack knows it. However, because of his baseball pitcher's delivery, he finds it almost impossible to get into that position and get a serve in.

GuyClinch · Aug 24, 2015

I noticed when Freeman demonstrated the full serve, there was no "dangle"...he had a full grip on the handle.

another similar drill is instead of the "dangle", you just grip the racquet with 2 or 3 fingers.

True. its just a drill to help people get the feeling of the racquet drop.. But you don't need a lot of shoulder flexibility if you just let the racquet drop with a loose wrist/loose grip.. Your problem IMHO is that you want to hit the ball so you just tighten up and shorten your swing. I get it..I do the same thing sometimes..

Your serve is actually pretty good despite your lack of drop though.. So probably that frustrates you even more. I don't buy into the theory though that you lack the flexibility for a racquet drop. Can you hold the racquet in the still position with a lot of racquet drop? I bet you can.. So flexibility is not the problem.. I agree with Henin99. I don't agree about the two weeks stuff. Your swing allows you to hit the ball when timed with your toss. So a longer swing is going to take different timing on the toss and this is why its so hard to break this habit IMHO.

RetroSpin · Aug 24, 2015

JackB1 said:
I tried this and upwards I go only go a little past straight up. If were talking about a clock, it would be to around 1'.
Going downward about the same...to 5 oclock.

I think that is pretty normal and shouldn't be an obstacle to a decent serve. When you drop dynamically in yout serve, you will get more ESR. You get the racquet drop by radially deviating your wrist.

JackB1 · Aug 24, 2015

RetroSpin said:
This is a key point and I am pretty sure Jack knows it. However, because of his baseball pitcher's delivery, he finds it almost impossible to get into that position and get a serve in.

It is a valid point and I will try and work on it.

dgold44 · Aug 25, 2015

The longer you can stay on edge with the racket the more speed you get. Even for an extra second your serve will be a tad faster.
I just started working on this and its not easy. I did notice a big jump in speed but felt bizarre.

No shot in tennis is even half as hard as the serve is. The only great thing is that the serve is the easiest shot to practice because all you need is new balls and empty court.
Then once you learn the serve you can suffer with the slice and kick. This sport is way too much.. sometimes.

JackB1 · Aug 25, 2015

Anyone have any tips on how to make your serve swingpath more vertical like | instead of like / ???

I was trying it last night with some dry swinging and its hard to swing totally vertical and still finish near your left hip.

onehandbh · Aug 25, 2015

Chas, I'm thinking of switching to a waiter's tray serve.

Would getting a job in a busy restaurant be good training for this?

RetroSpin · Aug 25, 2015

JackB1 said:
Anyone have any tips on how to make your serve swingpath more vertical like | instead of like / ???

I was trying it last night with some dry swinging and its hard to swing totally vertical and still finish near your left hip.

Your upper body is too upright I think. Most good servers align their upper body with their thighs. It looks like they are arching their backs and leaning way back but really they are keeping their back and thighs in the same alignment. When they bend their knees, they lean back and that opens their chest to teh sky. It is much easieer from that position to swing verically.

In fairness, the biggest server, Sam Groth, does not appear to do this. He squats and jumps and somehow gets his chest up later. Not too many do it that way however.

GuyClinch · Aug 25, 2015

Limbo move right? Yeah good servers do that.. however has nothing to do with JackB1 lack of drop. You do not need the limbo move for racquet drop. No do you need to hike your shoulders and drop your back arm.. Jeff Salzeinstein has some free advice (some kind of sales lead) on the serve where he talks about this.. You do both of these things on high level serves. But you can serve without any limbo and very little shoulder hike and still get full racquet drop..

Radial deviation/the dangle etc - will do this. No advanced technique necessary..

JackB1 · Aug 25, 2015

GuyClinch said:
Limbo move right? Yeah good servers do that.. however has nothing to do with JackB1 lack of drop. You do not need the limbo move for racquet drop. No do you need to hike your shoulders and drop your back arm.. Jeff Salzeinstein has some free advice (some kind of sales lead) on the serve where he talks about this.. You do both of these things on high level serves. But you can serve without any limbo and very little shoulder hike and still get full racquet drop..

Radial deviation/the dangle etc - will do this. No advanced technique necessary..

Got a link to the Salzenstein video?

JackB1 · Aug 25, 2015

RetroSpin said:
Your upper body is too upright I think. Most good servers align their upper body with their thighs. It looks like they are arching their backs and leaning way back but really they are keeping their back and thighs in the same alignment. When they bend their knees, they lean back and that opens their chest to teh sky. It is much easieer from that position to swing verically.

So you are saying to tilt my upper body more forward from the hips?
I see very few rec players that really get there chest to the sky like the Pros
and they still manage to get some drop.

RetroSpin · Aug 25, 2015

GuyClinch said:
Limbo move right? Yeah good servers do that.. however has nothing to do with JackB1 lack of drop. You do not need the limbo move for racquet drop. No do you need to hike your shoulders and drop your back arm.. Jeff Salzeinstein has some free advice (some kind of sales lead) on the serve where he talks about this.. You do both of these things on high level serves. But you can serve without any limbo and very little shoulder hike and still get full racquet drop..

Radial deviation/the dangle etc - will do this. No advanced technique necessary..

I agree but he was concerned about the angle of his forearm compared to images of pros. If you "limbo", and thanks for that image, your forearm is more parallel to the ground. You are not getting any more ESR but you are getting a deeper drop.

LeeD · Aug 25, 2015

Even Suresh tilt's his chest upwards towards the sky. Look at the pics of him on the T shirt.

JackB1 · Aug 25, 2015

LeeD said:
Even Suresh tilt's his chest upwards towards the sky. Look at the pics of him on the T shirt.

He also serves about 35 mph, so what does that mean?

LeeD · Aug 25, 2015

Roddick tilt's his chest up to face the sky, he serves better than 100.
What it means, is that you are extremely stiff, and don't know how to get the racket or the body into serving position.
Try leaning FORWARDS at prep position, try using the dynamic loop swing to provide the racket drop. Seriously.

Waiter's Tray vs High Level Serving Technique- What's Out There?

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