Players who have done well in strong years

WhiCH year(s) was the most impressive and ALSO showed the player can beat strong competition?

  • Fed 04~06

    Votes: 7 18.4%

  • Fed 07

    Votes: 9 23.7%

  • Fed 09

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • Fed 12

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Nole 11

    Votes: 27 71.1%

  • Nole 12~14

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • Nole 15

    Votes: 6 15.8%

  • Nadal 08

    Votes: 10 26.3%

  • Nadal 10

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Nadal 13

    Votes: 8 21.1%
  • Total voters
    38
PeterHo

PeterHo

Hall of Fame
More debates to keep this forum alive over Christmas.

Which year(s) proved these players are great in terms of beating strong competition? Which year was most impressive against strong competition?

Fed 04~06
Fed 07
Fed 09
Fed 12
Nadal 08
Nadal 10
Nadal 13
Nole 11
Nole 12~14
Nole 15

Fed: I would go for either 07 or 12.

07 he dominated a rather strong field, with nadal at his best on clay and grass. Young guns like Novak and Murray came along while roddick and others were still active. Fed won 3 slams.

12, 30+ fed came back to no.1 for 4 months, over double digit slammers in their primes, Novak and Nadal.

Nadal: picking 2013. Nadal is arguably past his absolute peak, and won the US summer events in convincing fashion, over hard court goat candidate Novak, who was in his prime.

Nole 11, 10~1 over Fedal, 3 slams, says it all.
 
upchuck

upchuck

Hall of Fame
1. Djokovic 2011
2. Nadal 2013
3. Nadal 2008
4. Djokovic 2015
5. Federer 2009
6. Federer 2007

The field was deepest between 2011-2014. However, in all but two of those years (listed one and two above), the best player only won one slam, so I don't think Djokovic's 2012-2014 seasons make the list.

2011 is a clear number 1. We had Djokovic and Nadal at the peak of their powers and Federer with a typical post-2007 season; Murray, statistically, also had one of his best years. Despite all this, Djokovic dominated.

As for second, I put Nadal's 2013 season above his 2008 season because in 2013 he faced peak Djokovic and a Murray who was in slam winning form. Federer was better in 2008 than he was in 2013, so that balances things a bit, but Djokovic and Murray hadn't quite come of age yet in 2008 so I give '13 the edge.

2015 is next because Roger had a typical post-2007 season (on the higher end of that) and Murray was at his best. A declining Nadal pushes it below the rest.

2009 is interesting since Federer benefited tremendously from Nadal's decline that year. He also faced baby Djokovic and Murray that year. However, that was overall a solid cast of top 10 players, which is enough to make that year fifth.

As you can see, while I think the overall quality of the field matters, the strength of an era is best determined by examining what life was like at the top of the sport. I'm not one of those people who put a lot of stock in determining the quality of the journeymen.
 
70後

70後

Hall of Fame
out of all these choices, 2011 obviously. It was so strong that no Djokovic 2.0 = 3 slams for Nadal and 1 slam for Fed (since he wouldn't have had to play Nadal.) Even a possibility for a Nadal 7 in a row if he hadn't got injured.
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
I chose all of Fed 2007, Novak 2011, Nadal 2008.
All have proven they can dominate the field regardless of the level of competition as far as I'm concerned.
They've all faced all kinds of fields and won.

- Federer 11/16 slams in a four-year period (2004-2007)
- Nadal 6-1 6-3 6-0 vs. GOAT in a slam final + claiming the throne at WIM 08 + Olympics (2008)
- Djokovic 7-0 vs. Prime Nadal and the tour demolition in general (2011)

All awesome.
 
PeterHo

PeterHo

Hall of Fame
Firstservingman said:
I chose all of Fed 2007, Novak 2011, Nadal 2008.
All have proven they can dominate the field regardless of the level of competition as far as I'm concerned.
They've all faced all kinds of fields and won.

- Federer 11/16 slams in a four-year period (2004-2007)
- Nadal 6-1 6-3 6-0 vs. GOAT in a slam final + claiming the throne at WIM 08 + Olympics (2008)
- Djokovic 7-0 vs. Prime Nadal and the tour demolition in general (2011)

All awesome.
Click to expand...


Yeah all great.

I guess for Noles its quite obvious which year was impressive. For fed and nadal less so.
 
PeterHo

PeterHo

Hall of Fame
upchuck said:
1. Djokovic 2011
2. Nadal 2013
3. Nadal 2008
4. Djokovic 2015
5. Federer 2009
6. Federer 2007

The field was deepest between 2011-2014. However, in all but two of those years (listed one and two above), the best player only won one slam, so I don't think Djokovic's 2012-2014 seasons make the list.

2011 is a clear number 1. We had Djokovic and Nadal at the peak of their powers and Federer with a typical post-2007 season; Murray, statistically, also had one of his best years. Despite all this, Djokovic dominated.

As for second, I put Nadal's 2013 season above his 2008 season because in 2013 he faced peak Djokovic and a Murray who was in slam winning form. Federer was better in 2008 than he was in 2013, so that balances things a bit, but Djokovic and Murray hadn't quite come of age yet in 2008 so I give '13 the edge.

2015 is next because Roger had a typical post-2007 season (on the higher end of that) and Murray was at his best. A declining Nadal pushes it below the rest.

2009 is interesting since Federer benefited tremendously from Nadal's decline that year. He also faced baby Djokovic and Murray that year. However, that was overall a solid cast of top 10 players, which is enough to make that year fifth.

As you can see, while I think the overall quality of the field matters, the strength of an era is best determined by examining what life was like at the top of the sport. I'm not one of those people who put a lot of stock in determining the quality of the journeymen.
Click to expand...

Agree with 1 and 2.

I would probably rank fed 07 no.3 or 4. I think its way underrated with the mix of competition he faced that year, with his generation of players still around, nadal peaking, and young Novak showing up. Could have easily been a nadal year really if fed lost at WB. That was also his last major win over nadal.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
1. Djokovic 2011
2. Nadal 2013
3. Nadal 2008
4. Djokovic 2015
5. Federer 2009
6. Federer 2007

The field was deepest between 2011-2014. However, in all but two of those years (listed one and two above), the best player only won one slam, so I don't think Djokovic's 2012-2014 seasons make the list.

2011 is a clear number 1. We had Djokovic and Nadal at the peak of their powers and Federer with a typical post-2007 season; Murray, statistically, also had one of his best years. Despite all this, Djokovic dominated.

As for second, I put Nadal's 2013 season above his 2008 season because in 2013 he faced peak Djokovic and a Murray who was in slam winning form. Federer was better in 2008 than he was in 2013, so that balances things a bit, but Djokovic and Murray hadn't quite come of age yet in 2008 so I give '13 the edge.

2015 is next because Roger had a typical post-2007 season (on the higher end of that) and Murray was at his best. A declining Nadal pushes it below the rest.

2009 is interesting since Federer benefited tremendously from Nadal's decline that year. He also faced baby Djokovic and Murray that year. However, that was overall a solid cast of top 10 players, which is enough to make that year fifth.

As you can see, while I think the overall quality of the field matters, the strength of an era is best determined by examining what life was like at the top of the sport. I'm not one of those people who put a lot of stock in determining the quality of the journeymen.
Click to expand...

When did Nadal face Murray in 2013?
 
BVSlam

BVSlam

Professional
Djokovic 2011 is the obvious answer. That's what made it even more impressive than it already was.
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
NatF said:
When did Nadal face Murray in 2013?
Click to expand...

Not once iirc lol.

But what made 2013 tough was facing an on fire Del Po in IW, Novak in RG, Canada and US Open who was dominating all other top 10 players. Also, Ferrer was quite tough during clay season, probably at his best (except for the RG final). Also, even though Fed had a bad year, for the two matches in Cinci and WTF, Fed was in pretty good form.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
The_Order said:
Not once iirc lol.

But what made 2013 tough was facing an on fire Del Po in IW, Novak in RG, Canada and US Open who was dominating all other top 10 players. Also, Ferrer was quite tough during clay season, probably at his best (except for the RG final). Also, even though Fed had a bad year, for the two matches in Cinci and WTF, Fed was in pretty good form.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point :D. If you're going to prop up a player at least know who he faced lol. Murray didn't make 2013 tough for Nadal. That's just basic.

Having said that 2013 was a good year - Nadal went through tough competition to win his titles. I might rate 2008 as more impressive, would need to think about it. What is your view on that?
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
NatF said:
Exactly my point :D. If you're going to prop up a player at least know who he faced lol. Murray didn't make 2013 tough for Nadal. That's just basic.

Having said that 2013 was a good year - Nadal went through tough competition to win his titles. I might rate 2008 as more impressive, would need to think about it. What is your view on that?
Click to expand...

Yeah looks like he took a stab in the dark with mentioning Murray.

2008 was pretty tough as well, Fed was playing well during the clay season and so was Novak to be fair. Then of course, prime Federer in a Wimbledon final and winning the Olympics.

What I tend to look at though is not only how strong the competition is, but also, how hard it is on a player to achieve certain success. IMO, It was harder for 2013 Nadal to have the record he did than it was for a younger and faster Nadal in 2008. In 2013 Nadal really changed his fh up and started being more aggressive. Not an easy thing to do.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
The_Order said:
Yeah looks like he took a stab in the dark with mentioning Murray.

2008 was pretty tough as well, Fed was playing well during the clay season and so was Novak to be fair. Then of course, prime Federer in a Wimbledon final and winning the Olympics.

What I tend to look at though is not only how strong the competition is, but also, how hard it is on a player to achieve certain success. IMO, It was harder for 2013 Nadal to have the record he did than it was for a younger and faster Nadal in 2008. In 2013 Nadal really changed his fh up and started being more aggressive. Not an easy thing to do.
Click to expand...

An interesting perspective. I think 2013 might have been when Nadal's forehand peaked. Overall I tend to think Nadal's best level of play was the clay season 08 up to the same point in 2009. But perhaps Nadal's adjustments in 2013 were more impressive. In 2013 I felt like Nadal was riding a wave of momentum - I thought he would struggle to repeat in it 2014, in 2008 it felt like Nadal had arrived and would remain at the top for the foreseeable future.

Also lol at that RF-18 quote in your sig
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Federer 2004 is unnderrated IMO. Hewitt and Roddick were at their best, Safin had great results at AO, WTF and the fall season, Agassi and Nalbandian were dark horses who could be very dangerous on their day. Coria was still a force on clay. Roddick played one of his best ever GS finals against a peak Federer. Overall I found 2004 to be a pretty competitive year.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
mike danny said:
Federer 2004 is unnderrated IMO. Hewitt and Roddick were at their best, Safin had great results at AO, WTF and the fall season, Agassi and Nalbandian were dark horses who could be very dangerous on their day. Coria was still a force on clay. Roddick played one of his best ever GS finals against a peak Federer. Overall I found 2004 to be a pretty competitive year.
Click to expand...

All Federer's slam draws were very deep in 2004. It was an underrated year, as is 2005. It dropped off in 2006 - though even that drop off is exaggerated.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
NatF said:
All Federer's slam draws were very deep in 2004. It was an underrated year, as is 2005. It dropped off in 2006 - though even that drop off is exaggerated.
Click to expand...
18-0 against top 10 players in 2004. Doesn't get any better than that against top opposition.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I found 2009 to be a bit more competitive than 2015, simply because the younger guns back then were at least making some runs. Djokovic and Murray did reach GS SF in 2009. Delpo also reached a GS SF and won a GS. This year not a single younger gun did that. Even outside the slams Nole, Delpo and Murray were a force in 2009. Today's younger guys are nowhere to be seen.

And yes Federer may have been a bit fortunate Nadal wasn't at his best that year, but he still had other guys to challenge him. And that's what made 2009 one of the most competitive years in recent times.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
mike danny said:
18-0 against top 10 players in 2004. Doesn't get any better than that against top opposition.
Click to expand...

To be fair Henman ended 2004 inside the top 10 and he did score a win over Federer. Still a great record though. Federer went 22-1 against the YE top 10 in 2004.

mike danny said:
I found 2009 to be a bit more competitive than 2015, simply because the younger guns back then were at least making some runs. Djokovic and Murray did reach GS SF in 2009. Delpo also reached a GS SF and won a GS. This year not a single younger gun did that. Even outside the slams Nole, Delpo and Murray were a force in 2009. Today's younger guys are nowhere to be seen.

And yes Federer may have been a bit fortunate Nadal wasn't at his best that year, but he still had other guys to challenge him. And that's what made 2009 one of the most competitive years in recent times.
Click to expand...

2009 was a really good year, much better than 2015...much better. It's the second most competitive year in recent memory behind 2012 IMO. Perhaps behind 2011 as well.
 
user

user

Professional
mike danny said:
Djokovic and Murray did reach GS SF in 2009. Delpo also reached a GS SF and won a GS. This year not a single younger gun did that.
Click to expand...

What about 2014? Dimitrov, Gulbis, Raonic, reaching SF, Nishikori F and Cilic winning USO. And from what I've heard on this board, that is not an evidence of a strong year, but a poor one.

mike danny said:
Even outside the slams Nole, Delpo and Murray were a force in 2009.
Click to expand...

Murray was fine in 2009, Del Potro apart from the USO was ok, no more. But Djokovic certainly was not a force, 2009 was tragic, much worse than his 2008 level, probably even 2007.
 
F

Fedalforever

Semi-Pro
2009 baby Djokovic wtf. You could make an argument that he actually had the age advantage over Federer starting that year actually especially considering he was already a Gs winner.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
user said:
What about 2014? Dimitrov, Gulbis, Raonic, reaching SF, Nishikori F and Cilic winning USO. And from what I've heard on this board, that is not an evidence of a strong year, but a poor one.



Murray was fine in 2009, Del Potro apart from the USO was ok, no more. But Djokovic certainly was not a force, 2009 was tragic, much worse than his 2008 level, probably even 2007.
Click to expand...
I was talking about 2015. And Cilic was not a young gun in 2014. He was 26. Same thing for Gulbis.

Djokovic's level in 2009 may have been lower than 2007 but outside the slams he reached 5 masters finals. He wasn't that poor at least outside the slams. In the slams, yeah, he was poor in 2009.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
He didn't have to. It's the overall quality of the field I'm considering. A strong field with Murray has ramifications for Nadal too...
Click to expand...
If Nadal did not have to face Murray at all, you cannot count him as competition for Rafa, since Murray wasn't standing in Rafa's way in any titles that he won.
 
upchuck

upchuck

Hall of Fame
mike danny said:
I found 2009 to be a bit more competitive than 2015, simply because the younger guns back then were at least making some runs. Djokovic and Murray did reach GS SF in 2009. Delpo also reached a GS SF and won a GS. This year not a single younger gun did that. Even outside the slams Nole, Delpo and Murray were a force in 2009. Today's younger guys are nowhere to be seen.

And yes Federer may have been a bit fortunate Nadal wasn't at his best that year, but he still had other guys to challenge him. And that's what made 2009 one of the most competitive years in recent times.
Click to expand...
I'm less concerned about how young guns perform than about the quality of their tennis. In that regard, 2009 had a particularly strong top 10-15, but it was before Djokovic and Murray reached their best and Federer benefited tremendously from an oft-injured Nadal that year.
Fedalforever said:
2009 baby Djokovic wtf. You could make an argument that he actually had the age advantage over Federer starting that year actually especially considering he was already a Gs winner.
Click to expand...
It was before he matured into the player he is now. 2009 and 2010 are rightfully viewed as years of stasis for him.
NatF said:
All Federer's slam draws were very deep in 2004. It was an underrated year, as is 2005. It dropped off in 2006 - though even that drop off is exaggerated.
Click to expand...
In terms of quality of competition, I'd take a year with peak Djokovic, Nadal and Murray over any year where the toughest competition were Hewitt and Roddick.
mike danny said:
If Nadal did not have to face Murray at all, you cannot count him as competition for Rafa, since Murray wasn't standing in Rafa's way in any titles that he won.
Click to expand...
Well, by that token, 2015 deserves to be higher ranked then. 31-5 is an extraordinary, unprecedented display of comfort meeting then beating the best ranked players in the world.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
He didn't have to. It's the overall quality of the field I'm considering. A strong field with Murray has ramifications for Nadal too...
Click to expand...

Does it? Murray didn't play the FO and he went out easily in the QF in the other half of the draw at the USO, Nadal missed the AO and went out 1R at Wimbledon where Murray performed well.

He was non existent in the clay masters so no strength added there. He also only had a QF in Cincy and lost in his second match in Canada. What strength did he impart on the field in the big events Nadal won?

You f*cked up, admit :D
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
I'm less concerned about how young guns perform than about the quality of their tennis. In that regard, 2009 had a particularly strong top 10-15, but it was before Djokovic and Murray reached their best and Federer benefited tremendously from an oft-injured Nadal that year.
It was before he matured into the player he is now. 2009 and 2010 are rightfully viewed as years of stasis for him.

In terms of quality of competition, I'd take a year with peak Djokovic, Nadal and Murray over any year where the toughest competition were Hewitt and Roddick.
Well, by that token, 2015 deserves to be higher ranked then. 31-5 is an extraordinary, unprecedented display of comfort meeting then beating the best ranked players in the world.
Click to expand...
Of course, but tennis existed before peak Nadal,Djokovic and Murray too, you know.
 
A

ABCD

Hall of Fame
For me, it has to be Djokovic2015. He beat the best version of Federer in 2 finals on 2 Federer's best surfaces in front of hostile crowd and he beat Nadal in FO. Beating Nadal in FO is the ultimate task, and Djokovic done it in an incredible manner. Not to mention WTF where he was, again, impressive against his 2 main rivals.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
In terms of quality of competition, I'd take a year with peak Djokovic, Nadal and Murray over any year where the toughest competition were Hewitt and Roddick.
Click to expand...

Murray wasn't that great in 2013...the difference between his year in 2013 and Roddick in 2004 is that Roddick had Federer in a Wimbledon final.
 
user

user

Professional
mike danny said:
I was talking about 2015. And Cilic was not a young gun in 2014. He was 26. Same thing for Gulbis.
Click to expand...

I have said 2014 because some people are talking about 2014 along with 2015 as some kind of a weak era benchmark. Cilic wasn't exactly a young gun at 26, but he was a new guy at the top. Djokovic and Murray in 2009, while 22 yo, were not exactly adding to the depth of the field, as they both were #3 and #4 for quite some time, so I don't think a "young gun" is an appropriate name for that. Not the same case with Raonic or Dimitrov.

mike danny said:
Djokovic's level in 2009 may have been lower than 2007 but outside the slams he reached 5 masters finals. He wasn't that poor at least outside the slams. In the slams, yeah, he was poor in 2009.
Click to expand...

He barely beat Monfils to win 1 M1000. Sucked at slams. Definitely not a force.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
I'm less concerned about how young guns perform than about the quality of their tennis. In that regard, 2009 had a particularly strong top 10-15, but it was before Djokovic and Murray reached their best and Federer benefited tremendously from an oft-injured Nadal that year.
It was before he matured into the player he is now. 2009 and 2010 are rightfully viewed as years of stasis for him.

In terms of quality of competition, I'd take a year with peak Djokovic, Nadal and Murray over any year where the toughest competition were Hewitt and Roddick.
Well, by that token, 2015 deserves to be higher ranked then. 31-5 is an extraordinary, unprecedented display of comfort meeting then beating the best ranked players in the world.
Click to expand...
Peak Murray would have done no damage to Federer in 2004.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Djokovic2011 was great.

Fed and Rafa were always destined for greatness. So even if they got a CYGS, it is nothing too much for them.

However a guy who could not win a single top 10 win in 2010 till the USO and who served more DF than aces, whose main weapon is defensive baseline game, winning 3 slams the next year was excellent though Fed had declined and Murray was not yet at his best.
 
NBP

NBP

Hall of Fame
PeterHo said:
More debates to keep this forum alive over Christmas.

Which year(s) proved these players are great in terms of beating strong competition? Which year was most impressive against strong competition?

Fed 04~06
Fed 07
Fed 09
Fed 12
Nadal 08
Nadal 10
Nadal 13
Nole 11
Nole 12~14
Nole 15

Fed: I would go for either 07 or 12.

07 he dominated a rather strong field, with nadal at his best on clay and grass. Young guns like Novak and Murray came along while roddick and others were still active. Fed won 3 slams.

12, 30+ fed came back to no.1 for 4 months, over double digit slammers in their primes, Novak and Nadal.

Nadal: picking 2013. Nadal is arguably past his absolute peak, and won the US summer events in convincing fashion, over hard court goat candidate Novak, who was in his prime.

Nole 11, 10~1 over Fedal, 3 slams, says it all.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree with al you said. 2012 was mighty impressive for Fed. The other three were all in their prime of primes (like 25 years old) and he went back to No.1, won a slam, 3 masters etc. 2007 is definitely underrated. I actually made a thread a while ago saying it is his most impressive year - backing up 2006, holding off Djokovic and Nadal for another year. And Djokovic in 2011 was also amazing, that was the best Nadal, no doubt.
 
upchuck

upchuck

Hall of Fame
NatF said:
Murray wasn't that great in 2013...the difference between his year in 2013 and Roddick in 2004 is that Roddick had Federer in a Wimbledon final.
Click to expand...
The difference is that Murray is a better player than Roddick was.
 
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