Best ballstriker in history?

Who was the best ballstriker in history?

  • Andre Agassi

    Votes: 66 60.0%

  • Roger Federer

    Votes: 38 34.5%

  • Jimmy Connnors

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Rod Laver

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Bjorn Borg

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • John Mcenroe

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Novak Djokovic

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Andy Murray

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Pete Sampras

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Big Bill Tilden

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • Total voters
    110
F

Fedfan34

Guest
For me this is always and only Andre Agassi. What he did from the baseline was revolutionary. At times, he was essentially a baseline serve volleyer. Saw a clip of him doing a tutorial with Bolleteri and they analyzed a clip of one of his matches against a serve volleyer and Andre actually moved closer to the baseline the bigger the serve and deeper the volley was. Amazing.

I'd love to hear other opinions and their rationale.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
Agassi, no one comes close really. HIs ballstriking is the reason he could play the same game no matter the surface, conditions or opponent (and he played at a time those things varied drastically from tourney to tourney) and why he could hold his own in baseline rallies agaisnt much younger, very talented players like Fed and Safin at an advanced tennis age.

Him winning Wimbledon in the manner in which he did is one of the most impressive (and underrated) achievements in tennis for me.
 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
PETE, particularly on clay. The surface didn't suit his game overall, but his clean baseline groundstrokes were on full display, particularly the year he won Rome. Something the Swiss Doper NEVER did.

Did I mention PETE also dominated his main rivals?
 
N

Nickzor

Semi-Pro
I've gone with Federer, sure he's got a history of shanking but everyone shanks, in his prime and during his best performances he was invincible and everything he hit just went in, I can't say much for Agassi as I started plying tennis 2006 when he retired so I never really got to see him play
 
W

Waspsting

Hall of Fame
Hydrocella said:
Agassi.

Nobody plays as fearlessly anymore - it's been percentage tennis for about a decade:
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the match in the video? I think that's more 'desperate' than 'fearless'

Or are you talking about Agassi's play in general? his results went up when he became a bit more percentage conscious

---

Or are you lamenting in general? There I'm with you. There's a thrill in watching a guy just go for it... though I confess, its a sign of not being in control, its great entertainment.

Sampras on a lot of his return games was like that. Djokovic occasionally goes bonkers when he's rattled (usually wins when he does). Federer went this route for a while against Djokovic and Nadal... usually lost, but turned in some hair raising thrilling passages of play.

I suppose Wawrinka is the champion of the fearless now
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
Waspsting said:
Are you talking about the match in the video? I think that's more 'desperate' than 'fearless'

Or are you talking about Agassi's play in general? his results went up when he became a bit more percentage conscious

---

Or are you lamenting in general? There I'm with you. There's a thrill in watching a guy just go for it... though I confess, its a sign of not being in control, its great entertainment.

Sampras on a lot of his return games was like that. Djokovic occasionally goes bonkers when he's rattled (usually wins when he does). Federer went this route for a while against Djokovic and Nadal... usually lost, but turned in some hair raising thrilling passages of play.

I suppose Wawrinka is the champion of the fearless now
Click to expand...

Haha, not lamenting. Agassi was the first guy that truly amazed me, you won't see this kind of ball striking on tour. Federer is coming closer to this style in his latter days [transition from 2015 and seems to have finally found it in 2017] - taking the ball super early with impeccable timing. There's a reason both guys have done well into their 30's.

It still amazes me when you see some of his stuff on youtube. Don't get me wrong, Federer has variety/serve/movement and a lot of other things going for him, he's also my favourite player of all time, and quite possibly the most naturally talented tennis player ever but for pure ball striking, for me anyway, it's Agassi.

I don't think its desperate, he had an incredible ability to find the angle/sweetspot taking the ball early. His finish is nothing like you'll see on tour nowadays, including Federer's [baseline rallies] There's no windshield wiper. The grip is a hybrid Eastern-Semi Western. I wish we'd see more of this nowadays but its a style discouraged, probably rightfully so.

andre-agassi-forehand-followthrough.jpg


agassi-forehand-followthrough.jpg
 
N

Nashvegas

Guest
In his book Agassi talked about intentionally shanking shots out of the court when he needed a break from his dad's endless sessions with the ball machine. I think that puts him in a class by himself.

Took Fed years to master that.
 
intrepidish

intrepidish

Hall of Fame
Has to be Agassi and Nalbandian. That David was not very fit given his talent level makes him look less impressive than he actually was. I don't think anyone ever made tennis look more like ping pong than David did when he was fit to play.
 
2

2HBH-DTL

Guest
Agassi and "ball striking" go hand in hand.

Just like peas and carrots.
Just like peanut butter and jelly.
Just like pure athleticism and sureshs.
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
Hydrocella said:
Agassi.

Nobody plays as fearlessly anymore - it's been percentage tennis for about a decade:

Click to expand...

Okay, I'm referencing my own post here but there's a reason:

For you young ones that don't remember/know who this Agassi guys was, and why many people think he had the greatest ROS, watch that video. His ROS was lethal off both wings.

4-2 Second Set the way he murders Fed's serve - ridiculous.

This was PRIME/PEAK Fed against 35 year old Agassi at the USO. I love Federer, he's my all time favourite, but you can't deny the pure ball striking talent of Agassi.
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
Fedfan34 said:
For me this is always and only Andre Agassi. What he did from the baseline was revolutionary. At times, he was essentially a baseline serve volleyer. Saw a clip of him doing a tutorial with Bolleteri and they analyzed a clip of one of his matches against a serve volleyer and Andre actually moved closer to the baseline the bigger the serve and deeper the volley was. Amazing.

I'd love to hear other opinions and their rationale.
Click to expand...

No votes for big pervert bill Tilden ???
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
This is really making me wish that I had started this thread sometime during the day instead of right before bed. I've forgotten so many good candidates. Nalbandian and Safin in particular are killing me.
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
125downthemiddle said:
PETE, particularly on clay. The surface didn't suit his game overall, but his clean baseline groundstrokes were on full display, particularly the year he won Rome. Something the Swiss Doper NEVER did.

Did I mention PETE also dominated his main rivals?
Click to expand...
I believe you left a key phrase out of your first sentence:

PETE, particularly on clay. The surface didn't suit his game overall, but his clean baseline groundstrokes were on full display, particularly the year he won Rome. Something the Swiss Doper NEVER did...roflmao


I think the emphasis in the last sentence should have been something like this:

Did I mention Pete also DOMINATED his rivals?
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
Hydrocella said:
Okay, I'm referencing my own post here but there's a reason:

For you young ones that don't remember/know who this Agassi guys was, and why many people think he had the greatest ROS, watch that video. His ROS was lethal off both wings.

4-2 Second Set the way he murders Fed's serve - ridiculous.

This was PRIME/PEAK Fed against 35 year old Agassi at the USO. I love Federer, he's my all time favourite, but you can't deny the pure ball striking talent of Agassi.
Click to expand...
If Agassi had gone all out in that final and been willing to risk injury/make that the end of his pro career, he could have won it IMO. Won the second and up a break in the third. But wore out and didn't go that extra 5 percent that could have made the difference (and ended his career). Ending as US Open Champ in '05 would have been a better swan song than what he got, imo
 
Fridge

Fridge

Professional
Nalbandian and Davydenko were extremely good. Fed shouldn't be on the tho.... there is a reason he is called Shankerer
 
HailDjokovic

HailDjokovic

Semi-Pro
This is blasphemous

It HAS to be Federer.
Dude effortlessly swings and creates thunder.

I think the notion is that Federer tended to frame or shank his backhand a lot when he was under pressure.
But when he is locked in, he is the greatest ball striker in the history of the sport, PERIOD.
I've never seen shots flow as they do with federer, where it is onslaught destruction.

I think Agassi had a cleaner return than Federer obviously, but Federer at peak (2004-2007) and even now in 2017 where he has changed his backhand is supremely magnificent in ways that Agassi could only dream of.
A lot of those highlights of agassi don't show him running and missing balls or framing them, so we tend to live in the past and believe that he was the cleanest hitter.
Agassi had short and compact strokes that allowed him to be an extremely clean hitter no doubt.

But
1. Federer
.
.

2. Agassi
3. Djokovic

For best ball strikers
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
Fedfan34 said:
This is really making me wish that I had started this thread sometime during the day instead of right before bed. I've forgotten so many good candidates. Nalbandian and Safin in particular are killing me.
Click to expand...

Safin should had won several slams as his talent was equal to Agassi
 
metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Fedfan34 said:
If Agassi had gone all out in that final and been willing to risk injury/make that the end of his pro career, he could have won it IMO. Won the second and up a break in the third. But wore out and didn't go that extra 5 percent that could have made the difference (and ended his career). Ending as US Open Champ in '05 would have been a better swan song than what he got, imo
Click to expand...
What about Agassi wearing out allowed Federer to paint 2 lines with a backhand winner and then hit a reflex backhand return off a 126 mph first serve to the back of the service box and then follow with an unreturnable forehand. Those are the shots he had to come up with to break back and from there he was untouchable the rest of the way.

Even if Federer had not raised his level in the third, there's no chance Agassi would have won that match. Agassi just did not have it physically at that stage, he was cooked in the 4th. Federer would have won in 5.
 
F

Fedfan34

Guest
metsman said:
What about Agassi wearing out allowed Federer to paint 2 lines with a backhand winner and then hit a reflex backhand return off a 126 mph first serve to the back of the service box and then follow with an unreturnable forehand. Those are the shots he had to come up with to break back and from there he was untouchable the rest of the way.

Even if Federer had not raised his level in the third, there's no chance Agassi would have won that match. Agassi just did not have it physically at that stage, he was cooked in the 4th. Federer would have won in 5.
Click to expand...

If Fed had done the same thing against Agassi during his 1999-2001 period, he wouldn't have mentally collapsed as he did in '05. Part of not having that extra 5 percent gear I mentioned earlier. Remember, Andre took Fed to 5 the year before.
 
D

Deleted member 742196

Guest
Russeljones said:
I think there's a bit of a handicap for players using the 2h BH. Cleaner by definition, no?
Click to expand...

Actually one of the reasons people find it easier to hit with a 1HBH at the early stages is the contact is longer and extends forward more naturally. It's a simpler stroke, the trick is getting into position to take it a little further out in front. There's no wrist, less things that can go wrong, no open stance/hip movement etc.

Ask a newbie adult player which one he/she prefers - 9/10 times they'll say the 1H. On the flip side kids take to the 2H more easily as they're more flexible.
 
D

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
HailDjokovic said:
This is blasphemous

It HAS to be Federer.
Dude effortlessly swings and creates thunder.

I think the notion is that Federer tended to frame or shank his backhand a lot when he was under pressure.
But when he is locked in, he is the greatest ball striker in the history of the sport, PERIOD.
I've never seen shots flow as they do with federer, where it is onslaught destruction.

I think Agassi had a cleaner return than Federer obviously, but Federer at peak (2004-2007) and even now in 2017 where he has changed his backhand is supremely magnificent in ways that Agassi could only dream of.
A lot of those highlights of agassi don't show him running and missing balls or framing them, so we tend to live in the past and believe that he was the cleanest hitter.
Agassi had short and compact strokes that allowed him to be an extremely clean hitter no doubt.

But
1. Federer
.
.

2. Agassi
3. Djokovic

For best ball strikers
Click to expand...


Consider that Fed's movement allows him to get to balls that Agassi would struggle to, even in his prime and not just the aging Agassi who faced Fed in 2005. So for Agassi to be able to win 8 slams, win Wimbledon in the 90s where other baseliners failed and complete a CGS (the only one from his era who did so) WITHOUT an amazing serve or great movement or great volleys, he would kind of have to have incredible ball striking ability. Fed made hitting winners out of court and off balance routine and Djokovic took it to an even greater extreme, making screamers with legs as far apart laterally as they possibly could be. Agassi didn't have all that. BUT he could take big serves from inside the baseline.
 
Purplemonster

Purplemonster

Hall of Fame
intrepidish said:
Has to be Agassi and Nalbandian. That David was not very fit given his talent level makes him look less impressive than he actually was. I don't think anyone ever made tennis look more like ping pong than David did when he was fit to play.
Click to expand...

Have to agree with Nalbandian. Not only was he a clean ball striker off both wings, his volleying and point construction were top notch. Yes his problem was fitness and mental instability. Outrageously talented, wasted of course.

Kafelnikov and Safin were also clean ball strikers. Baghdatis worth a mention as well.
 
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