SteveI
Legend
I don't see how high tension is a necessity for high swingweight either... if you have decent strokes.. I know many players using frames with SW in 345-360 range and they are stringing only in high 40s. I don't see the connection ..
Looser = Better?
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I don't see how high tension is a necessity for high swingweight either... if you have decent strokes.. I know many players using frames with SW in 345-360 range and they are stringing only in high 40s. I don't see the connection ..
WYK
Hall of Fame
If Eugenie Bouchard, Sara Errani, Martina Hingis, Samantha Stosur, Milos Raonic, the Bryan brothers, Nishikora and Federer, et al can get it done in the mid 40's, I don't see how one can claim it's uncontrollable. Federer has strung in the mid 40's during his career. I would argue it is difficult to make it to the absolute top of the sport spraying balls everywhere.
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Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
For me even the gauge makes a big difference. I've tried 16 gauge gut in my hybrid and was nowhere near as lively as I like. 17 gauge mains and crosses, verrry juicy. I'd use 18 if I could find good gut that thin. In a dense pattern, it's very helpful to use thin strings.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Come on Stevel you and all other guys who dont see the connection also have thousands of years of experience stringing racquets but dont see it???
Os racquets have a higher tension range than mids because they are more powerful due to the string bed being larger. More power= more tension.
Higher sw equals more power which equals more tension. Its why your 360 buds are in the high 40s and not the 30s. Said another way, up their sw to 380 and see if they dont ask for higher tension. Or said another way, if you dropped them from 360 to 330sw they would ask for lower tension.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Jack Sock stringing instructions from French Open 2017
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SteveI
Legend
Ah..... Thanks for the response. In general the trend is going the opposite as you are thinking. Players with good strokes and footwork are playing high SW and static weight frames at lower tensions using polys than in the past. If you have enough RHS /Spin and hit the ball consistently, you can tap into the lower tension to take advantage of the increased spin and power. This creates a heavy ball, more spin and getting margin for error over the net. Thus the modern game of tennis. Not sure what else to add. Beating a dead horse here...
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Imago
Hall of Fame
Jack Sock stringing instructions from French Open 2017
This is kg, since France?
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Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
I'd go up to 500 swingweight but I know it would slow me down. I don't think there's such a thing as uncontrollably high swingweight in tennis. I'd love to find anracket and string setup that others deem uncontrollably powerful, cos I look for the maximum combination of SW power, stringbed power (spin-friendly power of course), swing speed, and maneouvrability. I don't think there's such a thing as too much power in a racket.
Large headsize rackets need a higher tension for the sake of accuracy. That's what can be the issue if you string too loose in general. The dwell time may increase so much that the ball shoots off in unpredictable directions.
The other issue with large rackets is their sweetspot tends to be closer to the handle, so you don't get as much leverage into your shots or reach on your serves. I like the sweetspot to be as high on the racket as possible.
I challenge anybody to please offer me a setup that they think is uncontrollably powerful. That might just be my new equipment of choice, with the right strings.
Large headsize rackets need a higher tension for the sake of accuracy. That's what can be the issue if you string too loose in general. The dwell time may increase so much that the ball shoots off in unpredictable directions.
The other issue with large rackets is their sweetspot tends to be closer to the handle, so you don't get as much leverage into your shots or reach on your serves. I like the sweetspot to be as high on the racket as possible.
I challenge anybody to please offer me a setup that they think is uncontrollably powerful. That might just be my new equipment of choice, with the right strings.
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Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
That would be 77 lbs. We're talking Sock, not Shroud.
SteveI
Legend
Just fell off my chair laughing.... thanks Attila!!!
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
I'm inclined to think that if shroud NEEDS 86lbs or else his balls fly he needs better skill. But if he prefers it that high it's just how he likes it. I don't think swing weight affects it that much as he claims. I have a 13.5 oz babolat. I leaded up to feed balls. I can use 30s tension and I've had it strung 60 by mistake. Can still play either way. I usually play with a 12.4 oz aero strung at 50 lbs poly.
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SteveI
Legend
WYK
Hall of Fame
Shroud's videos are on line if you want to check out his technique. I played competitive tennis in University. I'll just remain quiet on his videos is the best compliment I can manage.
What I will say is it is astonishing how many people have strong opinions on what others should be doing with their equipment on these forums; especially in light of some of the videos I see these people posting...
WYK
Hall of Fame
According to Collin:
Roger Federer Wilson Pro Staff RF97 Autograph
Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/45lbs
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
WYK
Hall of Fame
I think some of the people here are completely missing the point. I guess I have to make it clear:
Pros play at many different tensions.
They have been known, and documented, to play at very low tensions. (Federer included)
They play very well at lower tensions. I have, too. Some others in this thread have seen interesting results as well.
I personally play anywhere from 30 lbs up to 57lbs without problems, depending on the racquet, string, weather, etc.
There is no "one size fit's all" answer.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
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Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
One of the important effects of string tension in terms of playability is dwell time. If you grow up used to a certain dwell time, it can take several months to adjust to something different during your tennis career. You may even never get used to it. I assume Fed is just trying to recreate the same feel with his 97 as he used to have with his previous, smaller frames.
Longer dwell time is the main reason people often struggle with low tensions. It's a very different feel, it requires you to change your technique, takes getting used to. Kids that are brought up with low tensions, can tap into the benefits. Or even adult rec players who can afford to spend a lot of time and lose matches while experimenting and getting used to new stuff.
SteveI
Legend
Nailed it... great post!!
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Or you just have a powerful racquet
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Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
If you think that's the case, then why don't you lower both sw and tension to get the same outcome? Just better maneouvrability, speed and comfort.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
As I said there are many vids and few show current technique and there is very little match vid were I even have my normal setup. Most vids are progressions or concepts where I am trying something new.
What specifically would you suggest i do technique wise?
And you are misreading me for sure. I dont care what people do with their equipment but like @Rabbit you must think “you could play with my stick” is the same as you SHOULD.
I do have strong opinions on tension and control and its common wisdom that higher tension (which is probably the problem as it should be stringbed stiffness or dynamic tension) leads to more control. Every site says that you string tighter for more control. Sure because its stiffer you can go lower in tension and still get the same SBS or DT with POLY, but yeah I think its not accurate to say lower tension gives more control. Thats a far cry from saying that everyone has to use high tension.
SteveI
Legend
Great question..... balance the two.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I did. Went down to 286g static weight and 320sw. It was a 110” which was 70ra and I was coming from the 6.1 95 (18x20). It was great from a movement standpoint. But it got pushed around. Added weight and ended up at 400sw. Needed max tension. I never could translate swinging faster into swinging better. My technique was a bit differrnt then especially on the fh so maybe today it would be better.
Low sw has its disadvantages. Volleys and serves didnt have the power I had with the 6.1.
And these racquets are stiffer than what you guys hit with so that ups the power too.
And to answer your question about powerful racquet get the profile 2.7 110” and add weight till it has the specs of my sig. string it with poly at 35lbs and see how easy it is to control. That has to be one of the most powerful setups.
You never had a stick that was a trampoline?
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I am betting that i have experienced much more range than most posters in terms of dwell time. A 15lb 14/10 pattern has probably the most dwell time you can get. I got used to that but what are the benefits you mention???
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Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
I did, when I had poorer tennis skills and was using unsuitable strings.
Like I said, dwell time becomes an issue at very loose tensions. You can't have too much power, but you can have too long dwell time.
If you weren't always yoyo-ing from one extreme to another, you may find what works best for your overall game.
I totally understand 320 sw getting pushed around and having no pop at the net. 350-360 won't have those issues, even less so at healthy tensions.
The benefit of a longer dwell time, within reason, for me is better comfort, touch and spin. Some may call it control.
Again, this is only valid with slippery strings or at least a hybrid. With locked strings, these benefits are still there, but to a much lesser extent, and especially the lack of snapback spin will hurt your ability to hit with pace.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
So fed is using 56 lbs. and he changes to a new string job every half hour of play. So that is not low tension more like mid to high. You can not compare fresh string jobs to ones that are used for days, I can play fine with mid 50’s tension when new but after a couple days of hitting it’s is nowhere near the same.
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Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
New poly even at a higher tension (in Fed'case a poly cross) is much livelier than most old strings at a lower tension. That's because the string has not started denting yet, it's free to slide in all directions, providing maximum power and spin. Once the strings dent, they don't slide very easily, lose their power and spin, and hurt your arm.
I don't use poly, but can see it from my teammates, how much more action they get on the ball with new strings. Not because they are tighter, but because they slide and snap back more freely.
String snapback is not just about spin. It's the basis for every form of elastic energy in action. Which means power as well as spin.
In theory, when analyzed individually, poly may be a stiff and low powered string. But in action, in an actual stringbed, fresh poly is more powerful and comfortable than full multi. Simply because of the free string movement in all directions. Once the strings get locked, they go dead and boardy, and you lose the benefits of poly.
This is one of the reasons why I prefer Zyex crosses. It doesn't dent, so stays lively pretty much until the gut breaks.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
And here we go again.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
So after the hijack and the train wreck, I say this to the OP....yes, try it. Play around with your tension and find what works best for you.
SteveI
Legend
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
FROM BASELINE.COM:
Delray Beach, FL. — Tecnifibre is the official stringing service of the ATP 250 event in Delray Beach, and they've had a busy week so far. On Monday, they strung 80 frames on a day that saw just five singles and two doubles matches.
It takes the Delray Beach Open professional stringers just 12 minutes per racquet (including the stenciling and packaging). The most demanding customers are Juan Martin Del Potro, Jack Sock and Milos Raonic with five frames per match.
While that makes sense, the tension highs and lows of the week could come as a bit of a shock.
"Jack Sock is very low, and Dustin Brown is very high. [Mikhail] Kukushkin is very low also," Delray Beach Open stringer Jay Lewandowski said. "It depends on their stroke and their racquet, and its weight and balance. Everybody is a little bit different, it's all sort of a personal preference."
Alexandre Papineau, Tecnifibre's marketing manager, said that ninety percent of the players get their frames strung between 45 and 55 pounds.
But Brown asks for 79 pounds, while Kukushkin gets his frames at 32 pounds. Yes, that's right, 32 pounds.
"Some players want to have the pocket effect," Lewandowski said. "They want the ball to pocket onto their strings. They have a very lively arm so they want to have more feel."
http://baseline.tennis.com/article/64392/delray-beach-stringer-reveals-crazy-low-tension
Delray Beach, FL. — Tecnifibre is the official stringing service of the ATP 250 event in Delray Beach, and they've had a busy week so far. On Monday, they strung 80 frames on a day that saw just five singles and two doubles matches.
It takes the Delray Beach Open professional stringers just 12 minutes per racquet (including the stenciling and packaging). The most demanding customers are Juan Martin Del Potro, Jack Sock and Milos Raonic with five frames per match.
While that makes sense, the tension highs and lows of the week could come as a bit of a shock.
"Jack Sock is very low, and Dustin Brown is very high. [Mikhail] Kukushkin is very low also," Delray Beach Open stringer Jay Lewandowski said. "It depends on their stroke and their racquet, and its weight and balance. Everybody is a little bit different, it's all sort of a personal preference."
Alexandre Papineau, Tecnifibre's marketing manager, said that ninety percent of the players get their frames strung between 45 and 55 pounds.
But Brown asks for 79 pounds, while Kukushkin gets his frames at 32 pounds. Yes, that's right, 32 pounds.
"Some players want to have the pocket effect," Lewandowski said. "They want the ball to pocket onto their strings. They have a very lively arm so they want to have more feel."
http://baseline.tennis.com/article/64392/delray-beach-stringer-reveals-crazy-low-tension
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
No. It is in POUNDS.
35 KG would be nearly 78 lbs. It is well documented that Sock likes his racquets strung in the mid 30s.
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Here is another discussion thread on STRINGFORUM on the same subject that references the discussion board on "Low Tension Polys" on this website:
https://www.stringforum.net/board/showthread.php?t=3412&highlight=tension
https://www.stringforum.net/board/showthread.php?t=3412&highlight=tension
Imago
Hall of Fame
jwocky
Rookie
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
WYK
Hall of Fame
Get a coach, and use a decent racquet set up.
I am having some wrist issues so I strung up my Blade 98L with Leona 66 (33 ft in a set, it's some old stuff!) at hand tension. I just pulled it through the grommets, weaved it, and done! Its surprising how it's possible that I can actually hit with it. I have played against some decent players with it and I can still control my shots. Best shots are the tight angle topspin shots; flatter balls are not really an option. Funny part is, because it is only 33 ft, I had to tie off the crosses 5 strings early because I ran out. It amazes me that it's actually possible to play with a hand tensioned racquet.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Exactly. There is a video, somewhere on the boards, where Fed is displaying some rackets he's used during practice to the camera. Fed seems genuinely tickled that he's "shredded" the string jobs in 30 minutes. Could it be that Fed changes his rackets the game before every ball change because they wouldn't last much longer?
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I have had 4 in the last 2+ years. Only one was super. And that was John Yandell. Totally transformed my forehand. I linked a vid in the other thread. Just ignore the buggywhips. If you are on tennisplayer.net you can find the before and after in the write up he did.
The insuation and its rampant in this thread that anyone who strings at high tension somehow is lacking in technique is just not true and misses the affect of high sw. And the fact that my elbow is not injured
Anyhow there is a tips section here and its more brutal than this board even and a recent thread got some pretty good feedback and some praise. If my technique was as bad as you fellows insinuate that wouldnt be the case. Sure its not perfect but its on par for my level
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/forehand-vid-for-fireftw.605913/
WYK
Hall of Fame
You asked me, a perfect stranger on the internet, what my opinion was about how to improve your game. I was quiet until then. I gave you my honest opinion. All I will say is be careful what you ask for in the future.
Speaking in very general terms, there are a lot of users on this board who say things like "xxx has the wrong launch angle and it's impossible to hit a ball in." Those don't ever strike me as particularly experienced players, since I don't know that there's a racquet or string on the market that's actually impossible to use. In many cases, we're better off building skill rather than blaming perfectly capable equipment. It's easy to jump to that conclusion, whether it's right or wrong for the individual.
But speaking in very specific terms, you've got a weird setup, man. It's out there. It works for you, and that's great. But every time we talk about it, I wonder if you'd be better off learning how to be effective with a more conventional setup rather than developing your strokes around something so exotic. I think you may be painting yourself into a corner.
You've gotten a lot of good advice in that thread, and I don't want to pile on. You're on a good path.
