Is Karlovic's serve motion a good textbook serve?
- Thread starter Heuristic
- Start date
No serve would transfer well to Olivier Rochus.
Then why does Federer admire it? He hasn't mentioned one word about height in that assessment. Is he just being polite?
Why doesn't Isner have these serving stats against Federer if it's all about height?
https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/2015/500/MS002/match-stats?isLive=False
https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/2014/328/MS002/match-stats?isLive=False
https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/2015/500/MS002/match-stats?isLive=False
https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/2014/328/MS002/match-stats?isLive=False
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
I think it's pretty similar to Nick Kyrgios.
There's no sudden huge acceleration which makes it more reliable. It's not super explosive to hit even bigger.
It's technically better than Isner and Opelka imo.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Karlovic plays S&V and I think that tactic has a smaller gap between playing bad and GOAT players than staying behind on the baseline has. + Karlovic is just a better server than Isner. Isner relies a lot on a big +1 which Fed just neutralizes too.Why doesn't Isner have these serving stats against Federer if it's all about height?
https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/2015/500/MS002/match-stats?isLive=False
https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/2014/328/MS002/match-stats?isLive=False
Zeref
Professional
Here's a YouTube link.
He is not Bending his back as much or 'exploding' into the ball because he doesn't need to being nearly 7 feet tall. Not a big fan of his ball toss. His arm motion / pronation is good, an average guy can copy that and get few good serves in but a guy with regular height ( 5'10" to 6'2") won't be able to get slick 1st serves in on a regular basis with just arming the ball. We would need to use our back more than Karlovic for that and we still won't able to get any where close to his serve speed.
Also a thing to note is 2nd serves, often neglected. I don't know what Karlovic does on 2nd serves since I don't watch his matches and can't find his 2nd serves on YouTube. I guess from that height getting a good 2nd serve with 75% speed isn't much difficult.
But regular guys need to get some spin on the ball to dip 2nd serves into the service box. 2nd serves need consistency ( obviously) and variety (so it doesn't get punished) hence we need to go for topspin/kicker and slice . Slice serves don't need back that much whereas to develop a kicker you need to use your back a lot.
If u are a regular guy, I would just say to take Sampras/Fed/Almagro's serve an example. People may get shoulder and back injuries but that is mostly because they are over exerting themselves ( shoulder problems) , different body motions in serve kinetic chain aren't in sync ( back problem).
Also people can model Stan's serve. His serve doesn't get enough credit. He keeps it simple, u can model him when u just can't get your Serve Kinetic chain going.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Almagro has 0 leg action on his serve and is all fast arm. Do not look at Almagro.
Honestly I'd just say find your own natural serve, then look which great server is similar and go from there. Dimitrov is the prime example of what can go wrong if you imitate another player and don't get it completely right.
Zeref
Professional
Don't get me going on Dimitrov.
I always go full Almagro ( with no jump) while warming up for serves, gives me good feel on the ball, gets my upper body in sync and then add leg drive later after 20-25 hits. Just my way to gear up for serves.
I second the bolded part. Nothing is better if you can find another guy who has similar motion to your natural motion.
Agreed, but why does Karlovic still have a consistently lower ranking than Isner then? I fully agree Dr Ivo has a better hold game (he has a better serve as well but leaving that aside).
I want to serve like Ivo. My current serve is like Soderling. I think it sucks.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
For the same reason that Nadal, Djokovic and Federer have higher rankings than Karlovic, albeit the difference is much less extreem for Isner.
Karlovic moves better than Isner and from what I've seen returns more consistently. Isners forehand is more solid. I can't think of anything else. Ivos' volley is better.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Karlovic is worse than Isner at everything except serving and probably volleying.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
I was just thinking Delpo (and Cilic and Zverev) should be able to serve better with their height.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Cilic and Zverev are above average movers for their height. Cilic doesn't actually serve super big and he's kinda inconsistent hitting his spots. Zverev actually does reach 220+ but he doesn't hit his spots that well, his 2nd serve is really bad apart from a few stretches of brilliance.
Del Potro is just an average athlete. He doesn't have a fast arm and all that pace in the forehand comes from a stiff wrist which results in a super violent wrist snap. Think this is also why it got injured a billion times.
This is stats for both closest to each others respective primes: Karlovic vs Isner
https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/le...15&surface=all&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false
Notice the 4% difference in getting first serves in for Isner. Is this explained technically?
https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/le...15&surface=all&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false
Notice the 4% difference in getting first serves in for Isner. Is this explained technically?
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Isner takes less risks on first serves.
Say Karlovic aims for the line, Isner aims 5 cm within the line.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Curious to know "why" is it so for Cilic and Zverev but I guess it just is that way.
albertobra
Hall of Fame
Love the ball bouncing. The higher one before toss is intimidating.
Can a fairly proficient member in here with average player height try out the Karlovic mechanics and post a clip of it? I'm curious how it would look.
You would definately get some pop by just jumping into it.. I think you guys are underestimating the serve, but I could be wrong.
You would definately get some pop by just jumping into it.. I think you guys are underestimating the serve, but I could be wrong.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
His motion is low effort, with most of the power coming from his long leverage. This helps him continue to succeed at advanced age, in contrast to players like Rafter and Roddick who used a lot of shoulder and leg explosion to generate power.
You can’t teach height.
He jumps into it, though. Why isn't that sufficient to generate ample amount of force?
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
Monfils emulated it to moderate success
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
He doesn't "jump", he falls into it like everybody on the pro tour does.
Has he actually said that he tried to emulate it? He's not a big server, funnily enough.
Tenez!
Professional
Low effort sounds like a school report euphemism for lazy.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Roddick actively yanks his racquet downward from the trophy position, unlike most players who just use gravity. This allows him to get the racquet lower at the bottom of the swing, so that he can accelerate upward over a longer distance into ball, directly resulting in more racquethead speed. It’s the secret that separates his serve from the pack of other normal height players.
I heard a report that he had freakish shoulder flexibility, but it’s not clear if the flexibility was from the start to allow the exaggerated drop motion or if practicing the yank-down spring-loading motion while growing up led to the freakish flexibility.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
nope!
Karlovic takes full advantage of his height with his rather efficient service motion, as he should, but it wouldn't work for someone below 6ft5in.
Isner's serve is much more of a textbook, repeatable service motion, which conversely means he's not taking full advantage of his height (same as Karlovic) as far as efficiency is concerned.
Karlovic takes full advantage of his height with his rather efficient service motion, as he should, but it wouldn't work for someone below 6ft5in.
Isner's serve is much more of a textbook, repeatable service motion, which conversely means he's not taking full advantage of his height (same as Karlovic) as far as efficiency is concerned.
When you say "wouldn't work", you mean what exactly?
I'm surprised there's so much dislike of Karlovic's motion here.
IMO it's a very smooth, relaxed motion, quite fluid and simple. Sure, someone without a 6'10" frame won't be able to bang massive aces right and left with it, but for anyone that motion will give a pretty good serve.
IMO it's a very smooth, relaxed motion, quite fluid and simple. Sure, someone without a 6'10" frame won't be able to bang massive aces right and left with it, but for anyone that motion will give a pretty good serve.
I don't think his frame as much to do with it. Ivo is content at serving at about 125-130 mph. It may very well be that the higher bounce is all there is to it.
If you look at his serving, he doesn't appear to lick the lines any more than the other great ones in history, but he has that extra margin due to the higher bounce to put it inside the lines and still get aces or unreturnables.
Not for power no. Sampras, however, used outdated rackets even in his own time, so he didn't serve as hard as he could have done. I don't know if it had to do with getting better touches at the net or if he was just dogmatic. He to this day ONLY regrets that he didn't switch rackets for the French, not the other ones.... I assume he knows what he is doing.
MajesticMoose
Hall of Fame
I'm a big fan of the Delpo serve. In fact, I'm starting to emulate it more and more. My favorite pinpoint serve for sure. Very repeatable. I especially love the weight transfer from front > back > front.
Why not the Federer serve? It looks very simple.
MajesticMoose
Hall of Fame
I agree but being 6'4, a pinpoint is more comfortable to hit so I look to the best pinpoints to emulate. Delpo mold fits the bill nicely.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
That’s what I noticed.
I think Isner has one of the best serves from a technical standpoint
Similar threads
