Better Backhand: Thiem or Federer?
- Thread starter King No1e
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tusharlovesrafa
Hall of Fame
LOL at the thread...It's 20 slams vs 0.. / Thread..
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
So Federer's backhand is better than Wawrinkas too?
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
If you'd watched either of them play live, there is NO contest. Fed's BH is vastly superior. And yes, Fed's BH is superior to Stan's, you must be joking. Just during the USO, the question was asked, "who has the greatest one handed BH in history?" to Lendl, Mac, Becker and Wilander. All said with no hesitation, "Roger Federer."
Stan has no slice BH and no BH return of serve. Velocity isn't the biggest factor in a BH, variety is.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Stan is a joke compared to Fed's BH. ZERO variety! He has a great topspin BH when he's in Stanimal mode, which is once every three years.
http://mymovestore.com/top-10-best-one-handed-backhands-tennis-history/
Breakpointerer
Legend
Feder
Slightly D1
Professional
Thiem does not compare to Federer in anything.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, absolutely. Wawrinka's bh is an excellent "gruelling rally" shot. But it is also limited; almost weak in the forecourt and a below average return-shot. The only weakness of Federer's bh is the inconsistency, which sometimes occurs. The variety is pretty extreme. His all over game is more advanced than Stan's and Thiem's.
If the question was: Who has the best backhand from two metres behind the baseline, I would say:
Wawrinka
Thiem
Federer
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Fed better server tham Karlovic confirmed
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
If you count the slice, then Fedr.
If not, then... still Fedr.
If not, then... still Fedr.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
I'd take Federers BH over Thiems. Huge variety and is better suited for different set of surfaces and conditions. His BH is way more adaptable aswell and play it close to the baseline, aswell as from the back of the court.
I also see discussions about Waw BH vs Fed, it's Federer there aswell.
I also see discussions about Waw BH vs Fed, it's Federer there aswell.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Instructors, tennis critics, players, pros, REALITY: Thiem
Frauderinas: Fed - because slice, even though poll says NOT SLICE
Color me SHOCKED
Frauderinas: Fed - because slice, even though poll says NOT SLICE
Color me SHOCKED
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Priceless
- get Roddick, Lopez, Karlovic, Raonic on the line and tell them that the only issue with their backhands is inconsistency - LMAO!!!!
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Stop it.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Thiem and Gasquet hit harder than Wawrinka. Stan's backhand is a more consistent, aggressive weapon. It's essentially his 2nd forehand. He can rip it when he wants, but even otherwise it's a solid, accurate shot that doesn't break down on defense as much as Fed's does. Now his slice is nowhere near Federer's, but his regular backhand is GOAT 1-hander IMO.
Thiem's backhand is a more powerful, less consistent version of Wawrinka's, with little variety and accuracy. Federer BH > Thiem BH for me, but I know some club players who are Thiem fans and strongly believe Thiem's backhand is better than Fed's; hence the thread.
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
Uh, since when does Stan have no slice backhand?
Make that 4 metres behind the baseline and I agree with you.
But if I was watching a match like that, I'd walk out.
R
Robert Baratheon
Guest
Remove the slice out of the equation and it's most definitely Thiem.
I mean tennis is not just FH or BH bois and gals.
Fraud has supreme movement which makes his shots more effective and efficient.
The point is that on its own Federer's topspin BH is simply not better than Thiem's or Stan's.
Fed has the serve which sets up for a weak return on which Fed jumps like a monster to hit great putaways. Those kind of things are Fed's strength. Neutralising the rally with his slice. Getting balls in play with his chip returns and his amazing hand eye coordination to pull off amazing shots.
Those are the things he is known for.
Not for blasting BH winners DTL or CC past the opponents. Take away the GOAT forehand which does 70% of the damage and he ends with nothing. Don't get me wrong he has great things overall but without that FH to set things up those other things will only be rare 'trick shots' like Kyrgios does.
You don't win through trick shots. You win because of weapons.
Fraud's weapons are SERVE, FH, Slice BH, 1st serve chip returns. Pretty much that. And since he turned Edbergerer you can add volleys in there.
His topspin BH became a legit weapon in 2017 first half though.
So yeah to conclude Wawrinka topspin BH>Thiem's>>Fraud's
I mean tennis is not just FH or BH bois and gals.
Fraud has supreme movement which makes his shots more effective and efficient.
The point is that on its own Federer's topspin BH is simply not better than Thiem's or Stan's.
Fed has the serve which sets up for a weak return on which Fed jumps like a monster to hit great putaways. Those kind of things are Fed's strength. Neutralising the rally with his slice. Getting balls in play with his chip returns and his amazing hand eye coordination to pull off amazing shots.
Those are the things he is known for.
Not for blasting BH winners DTL or CC past the opponents. Take away the GOAT forehand which does 70% of the damage and he ends with nothing. Don't get me wrong he has great things overall but without that FH to set things up those other things will only be rare 'trick shots' like Kyrgios does.
You don't win through trick shots. You win because of weapons.
Fraud's weapons are SERVE, FH, Slice BH, 1st serve chip returns. Pretty much that. And since he turned Edbergerer you can add volleys in there.
His topspin BH became a legit weapon in 2017 first half though.
So yeah to conclude Wawrinka topspin BH>Thiem's>>Fraud's
dropshotlikeitshot
Professional
Using this logic, Nadal has a better serve than Isner.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Thiem can handle the high bounce, Fed can't. Huge difference, but Fed also has his slice backhand. I would say they are comparable... But Fed's looks better.
By handle, do you mean retreat 4m behind the baseline and blaze away .. or step in and drive the half volley?
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Whether by his silly jump or stepping back, he simply deals with it better.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Thiem on clay, Fed everywhere else. Thiem's big swing hurts him in comparison, and he doesn't have Stan's precision.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
These polls are usually responded by fanboys. Fed had decent chance of winning even if question was about the greatest two-handed backhand too.
guitarra
Professional
True. Paire would have a great chance to win "the best FH poll" but he doesn't have any fans unfortunately...
Bender
G.O.A.T.
@Red Rick
As for what I think re: Fed v Thiem v Wawrinka...
Assuming:
- Achievements are not considered: because Fed's 20 slams are a result of more than one or two factors. So no, Federer's BH didn't win him 20 slams on its own. Stop with that nonsense.
- Only topspin / rally backhands are considered, as slices are not included.
- Takes the ball earlier
- Consistent considering how early he hits the ball
- Redirects well
- Angles
- Hits well on the run
- Good on grass and lower bouncing hards
- Handles big serves well
- Particularly weak to heavy topspin balls {laughs in Claydal}
- Therefore a liability on clay
- Loses a lot of power once forced to hit deep behind the baseline
- Can still break down inexplicably
- Immense spin and power from any part of the court
- Hits well on the run
- Handles heavy topspin balls well
- Consistent for how much risk is being taken
- Good on high bouncing hards and clay
- Handles big and slow serves equally as well (but not as well as Fed does against big serves)
- Error prone, partly caused by Thiem's tennis IQ
- Not as good as Federer's when hit on the rise
- Therefore can be a liability on grass (not a huge liability)
- Not that good at angles
- Not that good at redirecting
- Immense spin and power that does not require too much risk
- Fantastic placement and depth
- Handles heavy topspin balls well (although Wawrinka considers it a liability against Nadal)
- Angles
- Redirects well
- The weakest out of the three when forced to hit on the rise
- Therefore weak on grass
- Cannot be used to drive returns consistently
- Limited court coverage
ForehandRF
Legend
Leaving the title aside and also the opponent, this is a good example for Fed's backhand performance in a match.Everybody talks about AO and IW 2017 when it comes to backhand, but how about this ? It was a low bouncing court, but still
ForehandRF
Legend
Great analysis, but liability on clay only against the Nadal because nobody else could brake Fed's one hander like that.
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Fedr
Bender
G.O.A.T.
On clay pretty much everyone goes to Federer's backhand and usually it's a profitable venture. It's just nearly as profitable as Nadal's FH, but that's because Nadal's FH is Fed's BH's kryptonite on clay.
Meanwhile, Wawrinka and Thiem's BHs are less consistently fragile against Nadal's forehand, but they lose nonetheless (usually) because of other factors.
Edit: accidentally said Nadal’s backhand instead of Nadal’s forehand in the last sentence
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Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Thiem's backhand has more raw power than Wawrinka. I love when he hits backhand winners that are closer to the center of the court than down the line but they go a zillion miles per hower so watchu gon do about it.
Thiem's also the only one I've seen basically do the Djokovic slide with a one handed backhand on a passing shot.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I don't know if it's just me imagining things, but the reason why I'm hesitant to agree is that Thiem plainly looks like he's hitting as hard as he can, whereas Wawrinka even on his biggest BHs seem to be dialing it back just a little. But it does seem like Thiem hits his backhands harder, although I don't have the stats (not that they'd help even if I did have them).
For raw power, theoretical or actual, Gasquet should be right up there as well.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Pretty much, I think Gasquet actually has better kinetics for max power.
Thiem is frustrating cause he doesn't use the backhand well at all in general cross court rallies.
ForehandRF
Legend
True, everyone goes to Fed's backhand on clay, but they weren't successful against 2005-2012 Fed who was stopped, with few exceptions, only by Nadal.In fact everyone goes to Fed's backhand on every surface, but mainly Djokovic has had success, especially in recent years and more so on high bouncing hardcourts.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
I recall seeing one graphics on spin rate for all top 100 playaers on both FH and BH sides. No one was even closer to Gasquet on Back Hand side. He leads on every one else easily in terms of spin. Both one handed and two-handed.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
There's quite a few reasons to explain your observations, but if we split your observations into two parts:
- Fed's BH on clay
- Fed's BH vs Djokovic
2005-2012 Fed was younger and faster. He could get to the ball and set up a lot faster so that an attacking ball coming that way can be neutralised if not countered. Often he'd prefer running around the BH and hit FHs, which of course is his major strength. However, this didn't work against Nadal because:
- Nadal was too fast and could get to most if not almost all attacking FHs that Fed hit from the AD court
- Nadal was ridiculously good at turning defence to offence with a single shot from the most outlandish parts of the court
This meant that Fed basically had to commit to hitting BHs on almost every ball that went to his BH, where it was susceptible to breaking down under Nadal's heavy CC FH, because the moment he sacrifices court to go on the offence, unless it was 99% perfect Nadal would counter and automatically win the point.
This was not a dynamic that Fed had to worry about against anyone else because Fed could hit past or through everyone else not named Nadal on clay.
As for #2, interestingly Federer loses BH to BH exchanges in several ways:
- For the same reasons Nadal's topspin FH doesn't match up well against Djokovic's BH, except Nadal's topspin FH >>>>> Federer's topspin BH, and Nadal's topspin FH >>> Djokovic's BH
- Federer is too slow to deal with big balls coming that way
- He can’t easily create power off that wing and hitting early isn’t enough to compensate for it, which means that there’s no pressure on Djokovic’s own backhand wing
- The only way Federer can put pressure on Djokovic is to change directions by going down the line, which is not percentage tennis
- And even if Federer does successfully go down the line, unless it’s struck hard and placed well (which doesn’t happen often and on demand even on a good day), Djokovic can either run it down and drill a cross-court forehand making Fed go on the defence or drill it back down the line, which will likely result in a short ball to be put away.
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AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
What the does that mean? You shouldn't have to "hope" grass is faster/lower-bouncing than clay, or something.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I meant that back during the peak of their rivalry, when Rafa was actually good enough to meet Fed off clay regularly, Fed would have to “hope” that they’d meet on a surface that was suited for him, as Rafa’s level was more or less a constant, meaning that unless something mitigated Rafa’s game, Rafa would win by default. Earlier on in their rivalry that rarely happened as Rafa just wasn’t good enough off clay to get to Fed.
So later on, say 2008-2014, it was a matter of whether, say, the grass was slower that year, or whether the conditions were hot and humid, etc. Not a slight at Federer or anything, but back when they were meeting at the business end of all the major events, Federer often needed an extra factor in his favour otherwise it became a rather predictable affair. He just didn’t have a plan that worked consistently to take Rafa out.
Of course now that they’ve both gotten old, the dynamic is quite different, but that’s another story.
flanker2000fr
Hall of Fame
If you take the slice out of the equation, I'd give it to Thiem. He has far more security on that shot.
If slice is in, then it's very difficult to beat the variety that Federer has on this side.
If slice is in, then it's very difficult to beat the variety that Federer has on this side.
ForehandRF
Legend
Fed's problem in the 2008-2014 was more mental than anything else.That Wimbledon 2008 final was critical from that point of view imo and I believe that if Rafa had lost that one, their rivalry following that would have been different.Rafa was so much into Fed's had than even in the 2010 World Tour Finals Roger needed 3 sets to win, conditions that favor him.Something like how is Djokovic into Rafa's head now.
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ForumMember
Hall of Fame
if we talk just about slice then Fed is in his league of his own. No one even comes close. But I wonder who would be second?
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