Top 10 W-L for YE Top 10 (YEC excluded) since 1990

AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
PART 1: 1990-2004

1990

#1 Edberg 12-6
#2 Becker 9-6
#3 Lendl 6-4
#4 Agassi 4-2
#5 Sampras 7-4
#6 Gomez 2-2
#7 Muster 1-2
#8 Sanchez 3-2
#9 Ivanisevic 3-8
#10 Gilbert 0-6

1991

#1 Edberg 5-8
#2 Courier 7-8
#3 Becker 6-4
#4 Stich 7-7
#5 Lendl 6-3
#6 Sampras 4-6
#7 Forget 6-5
#8 Novacek 4-2
#9 Korda 4-7
#10 Agassi 3-2

1992

#1 Courier 7-6
#2 Edberg 6-10
#3 Sampras 7-7
#4 Ivanisevic 8-5
#5 Becker 5-4
#6 Chang 6-6
#7 Korda 7-6
#8 Lendl 7-8
#9 Agassi 7-4
#10 Krajicek 9-7


1993

#1 Sampras 9-5
#2 Stich 9-8
#3 Courier 8-2
#4 Bruguera 6-5
#5 Edberg 4-12
#6 Medvedev 4-6
#7 Ivanisevic 6-3
#8 Chang 4-6
#9 Muster 1-4
#10 Pioline 7-7

1994

#1 Sampras 9-6
#2 Agassi 11-4
#3 Becker 7-5
#4 Bruguera 6-7
#5 Ivanisevic 5-9
#6 Chang 7-4
#7 Edberg 6-7
#8 Berasategui 3-7
#9 Stich 3-4
#10 Martin 5-6

1995

#1 Sampras 12-5
#2 Agassi 8-5
#3 Muster 12-0 (!)
#4 Becker 4-6
#5 Chang 3-6
#6 Kafelnikov 6-8
#7 Enqvist 7-6
#8 Courier 5-9
#9 Ferreira 5-7
#10 Ivanisevic 5-5

1996

#1 Sampras 9-4
#2 Chang 6-8
#3 Kafelnikov 2-7
#4 Ivanisevic 7-5
#5 Muster 4-2
#6 Becker 5-1
#7 Krajicek 1-6
#8 Agassi 7-5
#9 Enqvist 4-4
#10 Ferreira 2-7

1997

#1 Sampras 9-0 (!)
#2 Rafter 6-11
#3 Chang 4-4
#4 Björkman 6-7
#5 Kafelnikov 3-4
#6 Rusedski 3-7
#7 Moya 4-2
#8 Bruguera 5-6
#9 Muster 3-6
#10 Rios 5-5

1998

#1 Sampras 3-2
#2 Rios 4-2
#3 Corretja 5-1
#4 Rafter 7-0 (!)
#5 Moya 4-4
#6 Agassi 8-6
#7 Henman 7-8
#8 Kucera 5-5
#9 Rusedski 5-4
#10 Krajicek 8-2

1999
#1 Agassi 8-5
#2 Kafelnikov 5-4
#3 Sampras 6-2
#4 Enqvist 9-7
#5 Kuerten 8-6
#6 Kiefer 8-6
#7 Martin 3-9
#8 Lapentti 3-4
#9 Rios 2-1
#10 Krajicek 3-2

2000
#1 Kuerten 6-3
#2 Safin 7-3
#3 Sampras 4-4
#4 Norman 3-5
#5 Kafelnikov 2-3
#6 Agassi 3-2
#7 Hewitt 10-5
#8 Corretja 4-2
#9 Enqvist 3-3
#10 Henman 6-5

2001
#1 Hewitt 7-3
#2 Kuerten 7-5
#3 Agassi 4-3
#4 Kafelnikov 1-7
#5 Ferrero 5-2
#6 Grosjean 3-7
#7 Rafter 9-6
#8 Haas 4-9
#9 Henman 0-3
#10 Sampras 5-5

2002
#1 Hewitt 6-3
#2 Agassi 5-3
#3 Safin 7-1
#4 Ferrero 5-1
#5 Moya 9-6
#6 Federer 8-4
#7 Novak 2-4
#8 Henman 3-4
#9 Costa 4-3
#10 Roddick 0-5

2003
#1 Roddick 4-3
#2 Federer 4-5
#3 Ferrero 4-4
#4 Agassi 4-4
#5 Coria 3-6
#6 Schüttler 5-4
#7 Moya 2-3
#8 Nalbandian 5-2
#9 Philippoussis 4-9
#10 Grosjean 2-5

2004
#1 Federer 13-0
#2 Roddick 3-5
#3 Hewitt 5-7
#4 Safin 6-7
#5 Moya 2-6
#6 Henman 2-5
#7 Coria 5-3
#8 Agassi 5-3
#9 Nalbandian 0-4
#10 Gaudio 3-1
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
PART 2: 2005-2019

2005

#1 Federer 12-2
#2 Nadal 5-3
#3 Roddick 2-5
#4 Hewitt 4-6
#5 Davydenko 2-6
#6 Nalbandian 2-2
#7 Agassi 3-5
#8 Coria 1-7
#9 Ljubicic 7-6
#10 Gaudio 1-3

2006
#1 Federer 14-4
#2 Nadal 8-1
#3 Davydenko 2-6
#4 Blake 5-4
#5 Ljubicic 5-5
#6 Roddick 0-4 (!)
#7 Robredo 3-4
#8 Nalbandian 3-6
#9 Ancic 5-7
#10 Gonzalez 5-9

2007
#1 Federer 13-3
#2 Nadal 9-5
#3 Djokovic 6-7
#4 Davydenko 2-5
#5 Ferrer 5-6
#6 Roddick 3-5
#7 Gonzalez 3-4
#8 Gasquet 4-5
#9 Nalbandian 6-3
#10 Robredo 0-6

2008
#1 Nadal 17-6
#2 Federer 7-8
#3 Djokovic 7-10
#4 Murray 9-7
#5 Davydenko 6-3
#6 Tsonga 7-3
#7 Simon 3-6
#8 Roddick 4-5
#9 del Potro 4-7
#10 Blake 3-4

2009
#1 Federer 13-8
#2 Nadal 14-8
#3 Djokovic 13-11
#4 Murray 12-5
#5 del Potro 8-7
#6 Davydenko 5-5
#7 Roddick 5-9
#8 Söderling 4-9
#9 Verdasco 2-11
#10 Tsonga 5-5

2010
#1 Nadal 7-4
#2 Federer 11-6
#3 Djokovic 2-6
#4 Murray 5-3
#5 Söderling 5-7
#6 Berdych 5-8
#7 Ferrer 7-11
#8 Roddick 4-2
#9 Verdasco 5-3
#10 Youzhny 2-4

2011
#1 Djokovic 20-2
#2 Nadal 15-9
#3 Federer 5-9
#4 Murray 7-7
#5 Ferrer 5-8
#6 Tsonga 7-11
#7 Berdych 4-7
#8 Fish 3-6
#9 Tipsarevic 2-8
#10 Almagro 1-7

2012
#1 Djokovic 19-10
#2 Federer 13-7
#3 Murray 10-7
#4 Nadal 11-2
#5 Ferrer 7-8
#6 Berdych 6-12
#7 del Potro 6-12
#8 Tsonga 1-12 (!)
#9 Tipsarevic 3-7
#10 Gasquet 3-9

2013
#1 Nadal 20-4
#2 Djokovic 19-6
#3 Ferrer 3-10
#4 Murray 5-5
#5 del Potro 5-5
#6 Federer 2-8
#7 Berdych 5-12
#8 Wawrinka 7-10
#9 Gasquet 3-8
#10 Tsonga 3-6

2014
#1 Djokovic 15-5
#2 Federer 13-5
#3 Nadal 6-4
#4 Wawrinka 6-1
#5 Nishikori 9-5
#6 Murray 4-9
#7 Berdych 4-5
#8 Raonic 3-8
#9 Cilic 5-7
#10 Ferrer 2-9

2015
#1 Djokovic 27-4
#2 Murray 11-8
#3 Federer 11-5
#4 Wawrinka 7-6
#5 Nadal 4-10
#6 Berdych 3-11
#7 Ferrer 3-8
#8 Nishikori 5-8
#9 Gasquet 4-11
#10 Tsonga 5-8

2016
#1 Murray 11-5
#2 Djokovic 18-3
#3 Raonic 6-7
#4 Wawrinka 2-3
#5 Nishikori 4-10
#6 Cilic 6-3
#7 Monfils 2-5
#8 Thiem 4-7
#9 Nadal 4-5
#10 Berdych 2-8

2017
#1 Nadal 12-5
#2 Federer 11-1
#3 Dimitrov 3-5
#4 Zverev 6-5
#5 Thiem 3-5
#6 Cilic 2-4
#7 Goffin 4-4
#8 Sock 2-4
#9 Wawrinka 3-3
#10 Carreno Busta 1-4

2018
#1 Djokovic 11-3
#2 Nadal 10-3
#3 Federer 2-4
#4 Zverev 4-5
#5 del Potro 7-4
#6 Anderson 3-4
#7 Cilic 3-6
#8 Thiem 4-5
#9 Nishikori 6-8
#10 Isner 3-4

2019 (so far, rankings per race)
#1 Nadal 7-4
#2 Djokovic 7-4
#3 Medvedev 8-6
#4 Federer 4-5
#5 Thiem 6-3
#6 Tsitsipas 5-6
#7 Zverev 1-5
#8-11:
Berrettini 5-3
RBA 4-4
Goffin 1-9
Fognini 3-6
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Uuuhh. Stats look impossible. Roddick had 12 matches vs top 10 in 2004, including at least 5 wins over dudes who finished YE top 10
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
AnOctorokForDinner said:
PART 2: 2005-2019

2005

#1 Federer 12-2
#2 Nadal 5-3
#3 Roddick 2-5
#4 Hewitt 4-6
#5 Davydenko 2-6
#6 Nalbandian 2-2
#7 Agassi 3-5
#8 Coria 1-7
#9 Ljubicic 7-6
#10 Gaudio 1-3

2006
#1 Federer 14-4
#2 Nadal 8-1
#3 Davydenko 2-6
#4 Blake 5-4
#5 Ljubicic 5-5
#6 Roddick 0-4 (!)
#7 Robredo 3-4
#8 Nalbandian 3-6
#9 Ancic 5-7
#10 Gonzalez 5-9

2007
#1 Federer 13-3
#2 Nadal 9-5
#3 Djokovic 6-7
#4 Davydenko 2-5
#5 Ferrer 5-6
#6 Roddick 3-5
#7 Gonzalez 3-4
#8 Gasquet 4-5
#9 Nalbandian 6-3
#10 Robredo 0-6

2008
#1 Nadal 17-6
#2 Federer 7-8
#3 Djokovic 7-10
#4 Murray 9-7
#5 Davydenko 6-3
#6 Tsonga 7-3
#7 Simon 3-6
#8 Roddick 4-5
#9 del Potro 4-7
#10 Blake 3-4

2009
#1 Federer 13-8
#2 Nadal 14-8
#3 Djokovic 13-11
#4 Murray 12-5
#5 del Potro 8-7
#6 Davydenko 5-5
#7 Roddick 5-9
#8 Söderling 4-9
#9 Verdasco 2-11
#10 Tsonga 5-5

2010
#1 Nadal 7-4
#2 Federer 11-6
#3 Djokovic 2-6
#4 Murray 5-3
#5 Söderling 5-7
#6 Berdych 5-8
#7 Ferrer 7-11
#8 Roddick 4-2
#9 Verdasco 5-3
#10 Youzhny 2-4

2011
#1 Djokovic 20-2
#2 Nadal 15-9
#3 Federer 5-9
#4 Murray 7-7
#5 Ferrer 5-8
#6 Tsonga 7-11
#7 Berdych 4-7
#8 Fish 3-6
#9 Tipsarevic 2-8
#10 Almagro 1-7

2012
#1 Djokovic 19-10
#2 Federer 13-7
#3 Murray 10-7
#4 Nadal 11-2
#5 Ferrer 7-8
#6 Berdych 6-12
#7 del Potro 6-12
#8 Tsonga 1-12 (!)
#9 Tipsarevic 3-7
#10 Gasquet 3-9

2013
#1 Nadal 20-4
#2 Djokovic 19-6
#3 Ferrer 3-10
#4 Murray 5-5
#5 del Potro 5-5
#6 Federer 2-8
#7 Berdych 5-12
#8 Wawrinka 7-10
#9 Gasquet 3-8
#10 Tsonga 3-6

2014
#1 Djokovic 15-5
#2 Federer 13-5
#3 Nadal 6-4
#4 Wawrinka 6-1
#5 Nishikori 9-5
#6 Murray 4-9
#7 Berdych 4-5
#8 Raonic 3-8
#9 Cilic 5-7
#10 Ferrer 2-9

2015
#1 Djokovic 27-4
#2 Murray 11-8
#3 Federer 11-5
#4 Wawrinka 7-6
#5 Nadal 4-10
#6 Berdych 3-11
#7 Ferrer 3-8
#8 Nishikori 5-8
#9 Gasquet 4-11
#10 Tsonga 5-8

2016
#1 Murray 11-5
#2 Djokovic 18-3
#3 Raonic 6-7
#4 Wawrinka 2-3
#5 Nishikori 4-10
#6 Cilic 6-3
#7 Monfils 2-5
#8 Thiem 4-7
#9 Nadal 4-5
#10 Berdych 2-8

2017
#1 Nadal 12-5
#2 Federer 11-1
#3 Dimitrov 3-5
#4 Zverev 6-5
#5 Thiem 3-5
#6 Cilic 2-4
#7 Goffin 4-4
#8 Sock 2-4
#9 Wawrinka 3-3
#10 Carreno Busta 1-4

2018
#1 Djokovic 11-3
#2 Nadal 10-3
#3 Federer 2-4
#4 Zverev 4-5
#5 del Potro 7-4
#6 Anderson 3-4
#7 Cilic 3-6
#8 Thiem 4-5
#9 Nishikori 6-8
#10 Isner 3-4

2019 (so far, rankings per race)
#1 Nadal 7-4
#2 Djokovic 7-4
#3 Medvedev 8-6
#4 Federer 4-5
#5 Thiem 6-3
#6 Tsitsipas 5-6
#7 Zverev 1-5
#8-11:
Berrettini 5-3
RBA 4-4
Goffin 1-9
Fognini 3-6
Click to expand...
Which years are the worst and best by looking at the stats? 1998 looks good percentage wise per opponent but the number of meetings is low and it gets criticised for being weak a lot.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Red Rick said:
How does it inflate top 10 wins?
Click to expand...

For the top 10 field overall. I mean there's always a total of 15 top 10 wins on the table, barring lower-ranking substitutes which then hurt others' top 10 stat for no good reason. So that can be ignored. besides, one tournament being so rich in top 10s to beat may skew stats, when someone does well throughout the season but poorly at the YEC (wrong surface or bad form), or the opposite, sulks through the season but randomly peaks in the end like chainrev last year.
 
R

Robert Baratheon

Guest
Red Rick said:
How does it inflate top 10 wins?
Click to expand...
Coz you play against all top 8s in YEC?
I think OP is saying that YEC isn't equal opportunity for #9 and #10 to inflate their top10 wins?
Other than that don't really see much sense in excluding YEC.
 
R

Robert Baratheon

Guest
AnOctorokForDinner said:
For the top 10 field overall. I mean there's always a total of 15 top 10 wins on the table, barring lower-ranking substitutes which then hurt others' top 10 stat for no good reason. So that can be ignored. besides, one tournament being so rich in top 10s to beat may skew stats, when someone does well throughout the season but poorly at the YEC (wrong surface or bad form), or the opposite, sulks through the season but randomly peaks in the end like chainrev last year.
Click to expand...
Okay it makes sense.
 
ForumMember

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
In 2006, in supposedly Federer's golden year, he was 14-4 against top 10 (not really flattering) while Nadal was 8-1.
 
H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
@AnOctorokForDinner You are judging by year-end rank, not by the rank at the time the match was played, right? So, e.g. when Edberg beat Courier in round 4 of the 1991 Australian Open, that counts because Courier ended the year as #2, even though at the time of the match Courier was ranked #23. Right?

You could solve the problem of inflating matches by counting the year-end event by restricting this to the top eight, as all top eight players qualify for the year-end event, and, anyway, top eight is the more meaningful category than top 10, given the way a knockout draw works.
 
Lew II

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic was the one who met the most top-10 in 6 years o_O (2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)

Nadal 3 (2008, 2011, 2017)
Federer 3 (2005, 2006, 2007)
Rafter (1997, 2001) 2
Edberg (1990), Courier (1991), Stich (1993), Sampras (1995), Chang (1996), Henman (1998), Enqvist (1999), Hewitt (2000), Moya (2002), Philippoussis (2003), Ferrer (2010), Medvedev (2019) 1
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Some observations:

early 90s were packed, Edberg especially played top 10 more than anyone else, 76 times in 5 years is a lot; his 18 seasonal top 10 meeting in 1990 as #1 wouldn't be equalled until 2006erer nor surpassed until 2008dal.

Fedr 2004 mark is epic indeed, 18-0 including 5-0 at the YEC. Muster going 12-0 in 1995 is surprisingly great, he pwned everyone on clay but also notched 4 top 10 wins on hard/carpet; but of course went 0-3 at the YEC though took a set in every match. Rafter's 7-0 in 1998 was gathered entirely during the NA HC swing, the GOAT of such swings in OE; he was forced to miss the YEC due to injury though. Pete's 9-0 in 1997 is a bit circumstantial but relays his supremacy that year (off clay that is); he finished with 13-1 (one RR loss to Moya).

Roddick making top 10 twice with 0 top 10 wins pre-YEC is kinda funny. He was the only player to actually qualify for the YEC with 0 top 10 wins in 2006, notching his only such win over Ljube there. Roddick was also the YE#1 with the second least amount of top 10 plays and wins (4-3, 6-5 incl YEC), only worse is Petros in '98 (3-2, 6-3 incl YEC so 'better' but not really).

The frequency of top player meetings between 08 and 16 is quite anomalous indeed, then it changed back radically. Frequency doesn't ensure quality though, plenty of beatings out there.

Tsonga's 2-15 in 2012 is something else, followed by Verdasco's 2-14 in 2009. Consistency+homogenisation+knowyourplaceitis=funny figures.
 
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D

Deleted member 763691

Guest
The key is how many top10 players do you meet on your favorite surface each year (or on their worst surface).
That's why it makes a big difference if someone skips the whole clay season :)
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
helterskelter said:
@AnOctorokForDinner You are judging by year-end rank, not by the rank at the time the match was played, right? So, e.g. when Edberg beat Courier in round 4 of the 1991 Australian Open, that counts because Courier ended the year as #2, even though at the time of the match Courier was ranked #23. Right?

You could solve the problem of inflating matches by counting the year-end event by restricting this to the top eight, as all top eight players qualify for the year-end event, and, anyway, top eight is the more meaningful category than top 10, given the way a knockout draw works.
Click to expand...

No to the first paragraph, opponent ranking is live as reflected in official top 10 W-L stats I used, or rather UTS stats that have been taken from ATP with some corrections (missing match data added). Counting it by YE rank would have to be done manually, I'm not a programmer so nope.

Problem is, the YEC draw is often not exactly top 8 due to withdrawals. In late 90s, I noticed sub-top-10 players in several YEC draws, must've been a lot of injuries then.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Lew II said:
2006 matches: 85
2009 matches: 159

2015 matches: 159
2017 matches: 87

How things changed going in and out of strong era.
Click to expand...

Oh hello, good observation there. Here's another one: 2010 #3 Djokovic had a worse top 10 record than the entire top 8 in 2011. What a change-up.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Most top 10 matches played per year by YE top 10 (top 3 in this stat)
and
total YE top 10 players with 10+ top 10 meetings that season:

1990
#1 Edberg 18
#2 Becker 15
#5 Sampras 11
#9 Ivanisevic 11

total: 5

1991
#2 Courier 15
#4 Stich 14
#1 Edberg 13

total: 7

1992
#2 Edberg 16
#10 Krajicek 16
#8 Lendl 15

total: 9

1993
#2 Stich 17
#5 Edberg 16
#1 Sampras 14
#10 Pioline 14

total: 8

1994
#2 Agassi 15
#1 Sampras 15
#5 Ivanisevic 14

total: 9

1995
#1 Sampras 17
#6 Kafelnikov 14
#8 Courier 14

total: 9

1996
#2 Chang 14
#1 Sampras 13
#4 Ivanisevic 12
#8 Agassi 12

total: 4 (!)

1997
#2 Rafter 17
#4 Björkman 13
#8 Bruguera 11

total: 5

1998
#7 Henman 15
#6 Agassi 14
#10 Krajicek 10
#8 Kucera 10

total: 4

1999
#4 Enqvist 16
#5 Kuerten 14
#6 Kiefer 14

total: 5

2000
#7 Hewitt 15
#10 Henman 11
#2 Safin 10

total: 3 (!)

2001
#7 Rafter 15
#8 Haas 13
#2 Kuerten 12

total: 6

2002
#5 Moya 15
#6 Federer 12
#1 Hewitt 9

total: 2 (!!)

2003
#9 Philippoussis 13
#6 Schüttler 9
#2 Federer 9
#5 Coria 9

total: 1 (ombillible)

2004
#1 Federer 13
#4 Safin 13
#3 Hewitt 12

total: 3

2005
#1 Federer 14
#9 Ljubicic 13
#3 Hewitt 10

total: 3

2006:
#1 Federer 18
#10 Gonzalez 14
#9 Ancic 12

total: 4

2007
#1 Federer 16
#2 Nadal 14
#3 Djokovic 13

total: 4

2008
#1 Nadal 23
#3 Djokovic 17
#4 Murray 16
#2 Federer 15

total: 6

2009
#3 Djokovic 24
#2 Nadal 22
#1 Federer 21

total: 10 (!)

2010
#7 Ferrer 18
#2 Federer 17
#6 Berdych 13

total: 5

2011
#2 Nadal 24
#1 Djokovic 22
#6 Tsonga 18

total: 8

2012
#1 Djokovic 29
#2 Federer 20
#6 Berdych 18
#7 del Potro 18

total: 10

2013
#2 Djokovic 25
#1 Nadal 24
#8 Wawrinka 17
#7 Berdych 17

total: 9

2014
#1 Djokovic 20
#2 Federer 18
#5 Nishikori 14

total: 8

2015
#1 Djokovic 31 (!)
#2 Murray 18
#2 Federer 16

total: 10 (!)

2016
#2 Djokovic 21
#1 Murray 16
#5 Nishikori 14

total: 6

2017
#1 Nadal 17
#2 Federer 12
#4 Zverev 11

total: 3

2018
#1 Djokovic 14
#9 Nishikori 14
#2 Nadal 13

total: 4

2019 (so far, rankings per race)
#3 Medvedev 14
#1 Nadal 11
#2 Djokovic 11
#3 Tsitsipas 11

(total: 5, may soon become 7 though)
 
M

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
AnOctorokForDinner said:
The entire 1998 top 4 played fewer top 10 matches (24) than Djokovic won in 2015 even before the YEC (27, 31 total), now that is really funny.
Click to expand...

Not sure it's that funny, the sport was so different in the late 90s compared to this era. Sampras/Agassi etc won very few masters series compared to top players today, there were only 16 seeds in majors, and the odds were heavily stacked against players doing well on clay and grass(I think I would have thought I was hallucinating if I saw Rios or Corretja or Moyà make the semis of Wimbledon back then)
Most events were upset riddled(the idea of top 4 seeds making semis of any event circa 1998 was a pipe dream)
And, as you noted, there were more injuries to top players back then. 90% of the tour retired(or were pretty irrelevant) by the age of 30. The amount of times novak and rafa have played each other is like the amount of times top women's players played each other in the 70s/80. If top men's played each other 20 times in the 90s that was considered a massive amount.

Really, comparing the big 4 era to the 90s is about as relevant as comparing this era to bill Tilden's era at this point, so much that is the norm now would have beyond belief if it happened circa 1998.

(btw Roddick was mocked all the time here in 05/06 for his record vs top 10. Many thought draws were fixed so he wasn't in Feds half, while Hewitt seemed to always got fed in his)
 
Last edited:
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Moose Malloy said:
Not sure it's that funny, the sport was so different in the late 90s compared to this era. Sampras/Agassi etc won very few masters series compared to top players today, there were only 16 seeds in majors, and the odds were heavily stacked against players doing well on clay and grass(I think I would have thought I was hallucinating if I saw Rios or Corretja or Moyà make the semis of Wimbledon back then)
Most events were upset riddled(the idea of top 4 seeds making semis of any event circa 1998 was a joke)
And, as you noted, there were more injuries to top players back then 90% of the tour retired(or were pretty irrelevant) by the age of 30.

Really, comparing the big 4 era to the 90s is about as relevant as comparing this era to bill Tilden's era at this point, so much that is the norm now would have beyond belief if it happened circa 1998.

(btw Roddick was mocked all the time here for his record vs top 10. Many thought draws were fixed so he wasn't in Feds half, while Hewitt seemed to always got fed in his)
Click to expand...

See early 90s stats for strong era in the past. 1992 top 4 played 56 top 10 matches total - a great figure in the heterogenised tour. Late 90s / early 00s was a lull period due to the Kuerten gen underperforming and injuries befalling many top players.
 
N

NFN

New User
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Most top 10 matches played per year by YE top 10 (top 3 in this stat)
and
total YE top 10 players with 10+ top 10 meetings that season:

1990
#1 Edberg 18
#2 Becker 15
#5 Sampras 11
#9 Ivanisevic 11

total: 5

1991
#2 Courier 15
#4 Stich 14
#1 Edberg 13

total: 7

1992
#2 Edberg 16
#10 Krajicek 16
#8 Lendl 15

total: 9

1993
#2 Stich 17
#5 Edberg 16
#1 Sampras 14
#10 Pioline 14

total: 8

1994
#2 Agassi 15
#1 Sampras 15
#5 Ivanisevic 14

total: 9

1995
#1 Sampras 17
#6 Kafelnikov 14
#8 Courier 14

total: 9

1996
#2 Chang 14
#1 Sampras 13
#4 Ivanisevic 12
#8 Agassi 12

total: 4 (!)

1997
#2 Rafter 17
#4 Björkman 13
#8 Bruguera 11

total: 5

1998
#7 Henman 15
#6 Agassi 14
#10 Krajicek 10
#8 Kucera 10

total: 4

1999
#4 Enqvist 16
#5 Kuerten 14
#6 Kiefer 14

total: 5

2000
#7 Hewitt 15
#10 Henman 11
#2 Safin 10

total: 3 (!)

2001
#7 Rafter 15
#8 Haas 13
#2 Kuerten 12

total: 6

2002
#5 Moya 15
#6 Federer 12
#1 Hewitt 9

total: 2 (!!)

2003
#9 Philippoussis 13
#6 Schüttler 9
#2 Federer 9
#5 Coria 9

total: 1 (ombillible)

2004
#1 Federer 13
#4 Safin 13
#3 Hewitt 12

total: 3

2005
#1 Federer 14
#9 Ljubicic 13
#3 Hewitt 10

total: 3

2006:
#1 Federer 18
#10 Gonzalez 14
#9 Ancic 12

total: 4

2007
#1 Federer 16
#2 Nadal 14
#3 Djokovic 13

total: 4

2008
#1 Nadal 23
#3 Djokovic 17
#4 Murray 16
#2 Federer 15

total: 6

2009
#3 Djokovic 24
#2 Nadal 22
#1 Federer 21

total: 10 (!)

2010
#7 Ferrer 18
#2 Federer 17
#6 Berdych 13

total: 5

2011
#2 Nadal 24
#1 Djokovic 22
#6 Tsonga 18

total: 8

2012
#1 Djokovic 29
#2 Federer 20
#6 Berdych 18
#7 del Potro 18

total: 10

2013
#2 Djokovic
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Most top 10 matches played per year by YE top 10 (top 3 in this stat)
and
total YE top 10 players with 10+ top 10 meetings that season:

1990
#1 Edberg 18
#2 Becker 15
#5 Sampras 11
#9 Ivanisevic 11

total: 5

1991
#2 Courier 15
#4 Stich 14
#1 Edberg 13

total: 7

1992
#2 Edberg 16
#10 Krajicek 16
#8 Lendl 15

total: 9

1993
#2 Stich 17
#5 Edberg 16
#1 Sampras 14
#10 Pioline 14

total: 8

1994
#2 Agassi 15
#1 Sampras 15
#5 Ivanisevic 14

total: 9

1995
#1 Sampras 17
#6 Kafelnikov 14
#8 Courier 14

total: 9

1996
#2 Chang 14
#1 Sampras 13
#4 Ivanisevic 12
#8 Agassi 12

total: 4 (!)

1997
#2 Rafter 17
#4 Björkman 13
#8 Bruguera 11

total: 5

1998
#7 Henman 15
#6 Agassi 14
#10 Krajicek 10
#8 Kucera 10

total: 4

1999
#4 Enqvist 16
#5 Kuerten 14
#6 Kiefer 14

total: 5

2000
#7 Hewitt 15
#10 Henman 11
#2 Safin 10

total: 3 (!)

2001
#7 Rafter 15
#8 Haas 13
#2 Kuerten 12

total: 6

2002
#5 Moya 15
#6 Federer 12
#1 Hewitt 9

total: 2 (!!)

2003
#9 Philippoussis 13
#6 Schüttler 9
#2 Federer 9
#5 Coria 9

total: 1 (ombillible)

2004
#1 Federer 13
#4 Safin 13
#3 Hewitt 12

total: 3

2005
#1 Federer 14
#9 Ljubicic 13
#3 Hewitt 10

total: 3

2006:
#1 Federer 18
#10 Gonzalez 14
#9 Ancic 12

total: 4

2007
#1 Federer 16
#2 Nadal 14
#3 Djokovic 13

total: 4

2008
#1 Nadal 23
#3 Djokovic 17
#4 Murray 16
#2 Federer 15

total: 6

2009
#3 Djokovic 24
#2 Nadal 22
#1 Federer 21

total: 10 (!)

2010
#7 Ferrer 18
#2 Federer 17
#6 Berdych 13

total: 5

2011
#2 Nadal 24
#1 Djokovic 22
#6 Tsonga 18

total: 8

2012
#1 Djokovic 29
#2 Federer 20
#6 Berdych 18
#7 del Potro 18

total: 10

2013
#2 Djokovic 25
#1 Nadal 24
#8 Wawrinka 17
#7 Berdych 17

total: 9

2014
#1 Djokovic 20
#2 Federer 18
#5 Nishikori 14

total: 8

2015
#1 Djokovic 31 (!)
#2 Murray 18
#2 Federer 16

total: 10 (!)

2016
#2 Djokovic 21
#1 Murray 16
#5 Nishikori 14

total: 6

2017
#1 Nadal 17
#2 Federer 12
#4 Zverev 11

total: 3

2018
#1 Djokovic 14
#9 Nishikori 14
#2 Nadal 13

total: 4

2019 (so far, rankings per race)
#3 Medvedev 14
#1 Nadal 11
#2 Djokovic 11
#3 Tsitsipas 11

(total: 5, may soon become 7 though)
Click to expand...

#1 Nadal 24
#8 Wawrinka 17
#7 Berdych 17

total: 9

2014
#1 Djokovic 20
#2 Federer 18
#5 Nishikori 14

total: 8

2015
#1 Djokovic 31 (!)
#2 Murray 18
#2 Federer 16

total: 10 (!)

2016
#2 Djokovic 21
#1 Murray 16
#5 Nishikori 14

total: 6

2017
#1 Nadal 17
#2 Federer 12
#4 Zverev 11

total: 3

2018
#1 Djokovic 14
#9 Nishikori 14
#2 Nadal 13

total: 4

2019 (so far, rankings per race)
#3 Medvedev 14
#1 Nadal 11
#2 Djokovic 11
#3 Tsitsipas 11

(total: 5, may soon become 7 though)
Click to expand...
Nice work. Don’t these stats look bad on Federer though? It seems 2003-07 is ranked low in this regard.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Worst pre-YEC top 10 winning %:

1990 #10 Gilbert 0-6
2001 #9 Henman 0-3
2002 #10 Roddick 0-5
2004 #9 Nalbandian 0-4
2006 #6 Roddick 0-4 (1-6 with YEC included)
2007 #10 Robredo 0-6

2012 #8 Tsonga 1-12 (1-15 with YEC included, mylol)
2001 #4 Kafelnikov 1-7
2005 #8 Coria 1-7
2011 #10 Almagro 1-7
1996 #1 Krajicek 1-6
 
Z

zep

Hall of Fame
ChrisRF said:
All of his 4 top 10 losses were actually against Nadal himself. His only other loss of the year was against Andy Murray who was only on the rise back then.
Click to expand...

Murray had a really good record against Federer early in his career. Couldn't do it at slams though.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
5 or fewer top 10 meetings per year (pre-YEC):

1990
#7 Muster - 3
#6 Gomez - 4
#8 Sanchez - 5
(how reliable is the 1990 ATP ranking? hmm)

1991
#10 Agassi - 5

1993
#9 Muster - 5

1998
#1 Sampras - 5

1999
#9 Rios - 3
#10 Krajicek - 5

2000
#5 Kafelnikov - 5
#6 Agassi - 5

2001
#9 Henman - 3

2002
#10 Roddick - 5

2003
#7 Moya - 5

2004
#9 Nalbandian - 4
#10 Gaudio - 4

2005
#6 Nalbandian - 4
#10 Gaudio - 4

2006
#10 Roddick - 4

2016
#4 Wawrinka - 5

2017
#10 PCB - 5

Least number for #2 and #3 was 6 matches (1998: #2 Rios - 6, #3 Corretja - 6).
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
AnOctorokForDinner said:
It wasn't the strongest period. *shrugs* That said, big numbers don't always translate into tough opposition, as long as pigeons and lapdogs are happy to provide easy win services.
Click to expand...

Some of this is a consequence of players having more defined surface preferences in those years. Also if there's more fluctuation in the top 10's e.g. a player is top 10 at the start but not at the end, or vice versa then quality wins may not show up. And like you said quantity of top 10 meetings isn't the be all and end all of competition strength.

I'd be interested in seeing this for just slams. For example Djokovic in 2015 had an insane number of top 10 meetings in the year but in slams he met a similar number of top 10 players to Federer in his three-slam years - e.g. 7/8/10 for Fed in 04, 06, 07 versus 10 for Djokovic in 2015 (7 in 2011).
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
NatF said:
Some of this is a consequence of players having more defined surface preferences in those years. Also if there's more fluctuation in the top 10's e.g. a player is top 10 at the start but not at the end, or vice versa then quality wins may not show up. And like you said quantity of top 10 meetings isn't the be all and end all of competition strength.

I'd be interested in seeing this for just slams. For example Djokovic in 2015 had an insane number of top 10 meetings in the year but in slams he met a similar number of top 10 players to Federer in his three-slam years - e.g. 7/8/10 for Fed in 04, 06, 07 versus 10 for Djokovic in 2015 (7 in 2011).
Click to expand...

Fedr was 39-9 vs top 10 in slems during his ombillible AO 04 - AO 10 run (25 events). Noel was 36-11 between AO 11 and USO 16 (24 events). 37-12 including USO 10 to make it 25, so 49 vs 48 is basically even.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Fedr was 39-9 vs top 10 in slems during his ombillible AO 04 - AO 10 run (25 events). Noel was 36-11 between AO 11 and USO 16 (24 events). 37-12 including USO 10 to make it 25, so 49 vs 48 is basically even.
Click to expand...

Yeah, noticed it a while ago but the big difference is basically in the masters. Not sure if it's the same for the rest of the top 10's or not though.
 
JaoSousa

JaoSousa

Hall of Fame
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Worst pre-YEC top 10 winning %:

1990 #10 Gilbert 0-6
2001 #9 Henman 0-3
2002 #10 Roddick 0-5
2004 #9 Nalbandian 0-4
2006 #6 Roddick 0-4 (1-6 with YEC included)
2007 #10 Robredo 0-6

2012 #8 Tsonga 1-12 (1-15 with YEC included, mylol)
2001 #4 Kafelnikov 1-7
2005 #8 Coria 1-7
2011 #10 Almagro 1-7
1996 #1 Krajicek 1-6
Click to expand...
Gilbert lol
 
Lew II

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Fedr was 39-9 vs top 10 in slems during his ombillible AO 04 - AO 10 run (25 events). Noel was 36-11 between AO 11 and USO 16 (24 events). 37-12 including USO 10 to make it 25, so 49 vs 48 is basically even.
Click to expand...
Matches against Big4:

UO10-UO16 Djokovic --> 29
AO04-AO10 Federer --> 15
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
Third Serve said:
Even in the 2003 SF Roddick was leaps and bounds ahead of what Nadal brought to the table. 2005 F is debatable.
Click to expand...
It was better the 2005 final as Roddick made it closer after the 1st. But still that is Nadals only terrible final in a slam.
 
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