A moral dilemma

[dizzlmcwizzl]

More information and what I decided.

When I arrived at the club Sunday afternoon there was a note for me. My opponent had played earlier in the day and was asked to contact me and arrange the match. He instead gave the woman his number and asked me to contact him. It is a small thing but I think it is indicative of his personality that he thinks I should do the work of setting this thing up.

Any who, we have two weeks to set up the match. I gave him 8 days / times when the courts are open and I could play over the next two weeks. Most of the times are Weekday evenings and I also gave him two Saturday afternoon dates.

His reply was that he could only play weekday mornings or perhaps Sunday morning.

The main conflict seems to be that he is unemployed and is only available during the day or on Sunday for some reason ... I also have a full time job that does not allow me to play weekday mornings. I also play in a regular indoor contract on Sunday mornings and I will not give that up for him.

Negotiations continue .....

 

[vandre]

Or, we can refuse to interact with them. Think of a road rage scenario for example. Probably a bad idea to try to educate and enlighten the perpetrator, or to 'beat' them in some way. Sometimes the best course of action is to disassociate.

this. if we're adults who are doing this on our own time without compensation, then we're doing this for fun SO IF IT ISN'T FUN FOR YOU THEN DON'T DO IT! i don't know about you, but there are tons of things i HAVE TO do so there's no way that i'm going to get "obligated" into something else on my own time, especially an obligation which apparently sucks all the joy out of what you like to do. so if it wouldn't be fun for you to play this yabo, don't.........unless the winner of this ladder get to turn pro or something!

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

FWIW ... I think the vegas odds makers would put him about a 3-1 favorite in singles. Dubs goes the other way with equal partners ...

We have never played singles before although we did hit for about 30 minutes once. He just plays where I play so we are in the same locale at the same time a lot and I see what he does to the people he plays with.

It is not the prospect of to losing to him that I object to ... I have lost to better and worse players (especially in singles).

My objection is that I simply have more desirable tennis opportunities than I can find time for ... and to cut out one of those for him seems counter intuitive.

 

[OrangePower]

More information and what I decided.

When I arrived at the club Sunday afternoon there was a note for me. My opponent had played earlier in the day and was asked to contact me and arrange the match. He instead gave the woman his number and asked me to contact him. It is a small thing but I think it is indicative of his personality that he thinks I should do the work of setting this thing up.

Any who, we have two weeks to set up the match. I gave him 8 days / times when the courts are open and I could play over the next two weeks. Most of the times are Weekday evenings and I also gave him two Saturday afternoon dates.

His reply was that he could only play weekday mornings or perhaps Sunday morning.

The main conflict seems to be that he is unemployed and is only available during the day or on Sunday for some reason ... I also have a full time job that does not allow me to play weekday mornings. I also play in a regular indoor contract on Sunday mornings and I will not give that up for him.

Negotiations continue .....

Perhaps that leads to the solution then. If you're going to entertain him at all, then at least put the onus on him. Tell him that you can play pretty much anytime ouside of normal work hours, except for Sunday mornings where you have a pre-existing commitment. This is completely reasonable. Ask him to give you some times within these constraints that work for him and that have verified court availability.

At a minimum, let him mess with setting this up.

If he doesn't follow through, and/or he cannot make it at a time that works for you, let the TD know of what days/times you offered... wouldn't it be a hoot if you actually end up advancing without playing the guy because the TD agrees that you offered reasonable scheduling options?

 

[ForLoveOfTheGame]

Be the bigger person and just play him. Doesn't matter if you don't like him. Use that to beat him. And if you can't, consider it a good practice. I'd rather play against someone I despise who would give me a challenge than play someone at my level that I can play whenever and have an average day. What if you run into him again? Can't always avoid it. You can do it! Good luck!

 

[floridatennisdude]

Perhaps that leads to the solution then. If you're going to entertain him at all, then at least put the onus on him. Tell him that you can play pretty much anytime ouside of normal work hours, except for Sunday mornings where you have a pre-existing commitment. This is completely reasonable. Ask him to give you some times within these constraints that work for him and that have verified court availability.

At a minimum, let him mess with setting this up.

If he doesn't follow through, and/or he cannot make it at a time that works for you, let the TD know of what days/times you offered... wouldn't it be a hoot if you actually end up advancing without playing the guy because the TD agrees that you offered reasonable scheduling options?

This^^

And I'd put it in an email and cc the director. Best to have it in writin with these types.

 

[Rjtennis]

You don't have to play, they could always call up the 5th person. However, it will be better practice to play an official match and wouldn't it be great to knock the guy out. Work out a game play to take the guy down! Winning will be fun, won't it?

 

[JoelDali]

Whatever happened to the idea of finishing what you started?

Sammy Hagar sang about this but in a sexual way I believe.

 

[samarai]

I can see if you were playing doubles, then certainly I wont pair up with somebody I detest. But this is singles, just go out there and beat him.

 

[ollinger]

Your opponent is a "tool"?? No. HIS opponent is a tool. You enter a tournament and then contemplate dropping out because you don't care for your opponent??? Honor your commitment.

 

[tennis tom]

Whatever happened to the idea of finishing what you started?

Sammy Hagar sang about this but in a sexual way I believe.

Cindy, you're attracting quite a coterie of young tikes.

 

[J_R_B]

More information and what I decided.

When I arrived at the club Sunday afternoon there was a note for me. My opponent had played earlier in the day and was asked to contact me and arrange the match. He instead gave the woman his number and asked me to contact him. It is a small thing but I think it is indicative of his personality that he thinks I should do the work of setting this thing up.

Any who, we have two weeks to set up the match. I gave him 8 days / times when the courts are open and I could play over the next two weeks. Most of the times are Weekday evenings and I also gave him two Saturday afternoon dates.

His reply was that he could only play weekday mornings or perhaps Sunday morning.

The main conflict seems to be that he is unemployed and is only available during the day or on Sunday for some reason ... I also have a full time job that does not allow me to play weekday mornings. I also play in a regular indoor contract on Sunday mornings and I will not give that up for him.

Negotiations continue .....

You have to be proactive with the club. Let them know that he is the one that can't play at normal hours and see if they will default him. Best case is that you move on without having to play him at all. Make this the primary objective. It is NOT reasonable in a world with people who have jobs that the only times he can play are weekday mornings when the entire owrk force is at work.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

More developments in the negotiations ...

Apparently the reason he can only play weekday mornings is that he does not have a car (he is unemployed). He can get a ride from his friend on weekday mornings so that is when he is available.

He is willing to let me drive 20 miles each way to pick him up and return him home if I insist on playing in the evening. This will not happen for sure.


Hmmm ....

 

[OrangePower]

He is willing to let me drive 20 miles each way to pick him up and return him home if I insist on playing in the evening.

That is a very generous offer. Better take him up on it before he changes his mind... :shock:

 

[Govnor]

Yeah, this isn't going to happen, make other plans!!

 

[Bdarb]

I'd make him eat the dq. Isn't it his responsibilty to be able to get there at a reasonable hour? Weekday mornings are not at all reasonable hours for tennis. if someone said they could only play weekday mornings and better yet, that the cause of this was because of his lack of a job I would laugh at him. At first ill admit I thought you were kind of wussing out but after reading more in here you're right, this guy sounds like a mega d bag. If he doesn't have a job it shouldn't do anything but leave his schedule more open, or am I missing something about unemployment?

My favorite is trying to make his transportation to a match your problem?!?! I actually laughed out loud, thanks for that.

 

[Avles]

More developments in the negotiations ...

Apparently the reason he can only play weekday mornings is that he does not have a car (he is unemployed). He can get a ride from his friend on weekday mornings so that is when he is available.

He is willing to let me drive 20 miles each way to pick him up and return him home if I insist on playing in the evening. This will not happen for sure.


Hmmm ....

Haha, he does sound like a piece of work...

You could go pick him up, start the warmup, and then get a (pre-arranged) phone call-- answer it, and then tell him that you've received an offer from a better player so you'll be leaving and he'll have to figure out his own transport home.

not saying you should do this, just that you could...

 

[J_R_B]

More developments in the negotiations ...

Apparently the reason he can only play weekday mornings is that he does not have a car (he is unemployed). He can get a ride from his friend on weekday mornings so that is when he is available.

He is willing to let me drive 20 miles each way to pick him up and return him home if I insist on playing in the evening. This will not happen for sure.


Hmmm ....

Make him take a cab or take a default. This is ridiculous.

 

[spot]

More developments in the negotiations ...

Apparently the reason he can only play weekday mornings is that he does not have a car (he is unemployed). He can get a ride from his friend on weekday mornings so that is when he is available.

He is willing to let me drive 20 miles each way to pick him up and return him home if I insist on playing in the evening. This will not happen for sure.


Hmmm ....

It isn't your fault that he only has one friend.

He is the one that is unavailable due to things outside of your control. Being available weekday mornings just doesn't count in men's flex league. It is up to him to figure it out or to take the default.

 

[onehandbh]

tell him to take the bus.

 

[floridatennisdude]

Dizzle, if this match ever happens you need to know one thing:

We want a video

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Dizzle, if this match ever happens you need to know one thing:

We want a video

Already on it ....

 

[tenniscasey]

More developments in the negotiations ...

Apparently the reason he can only play weekday mornings is that he does not have a car (he is unemployed). He can get a ride from his friend on weekday mornings so that is when he is available.

He is willing to let me drive 20 miles each way to pick him up and return him home if I insist on playing in the evening. This will not happen for sure.


Hmmm ....

This is bizarre. How did he get a top-4 spot in the ladder if he could only play weekday mornings? Is it a whole league of retirees or lottery winners?

I'm with others in saying you've gone as far as you need to go here. I'd drop a note to the leader of the ladder explaining the situation and the apparent impasse you've hit. The leader of the ladder can choose which one of you to DQ. If he DQs you, hey, you avoid having to play a guy who sounds like a generally bad person, which was your initial concern anyway.

If I'm leading the ladder, I'm DQ'ing the dude who can't get his own transportation together before I'd DQ the dude who's holding down normal adult employment.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

This is bizarre. How did he get a top-4 spot in the ladder if he could only play weekday mornings? Is it a whole league of retirees or lottery winners?

I'm with others in saying you've gone as far as you need to go here. I'd drop a note to the leader of the ladder explaining the situation and the apparent impasse you've hit. The leader of the ladder can choose which one of you to DQ. If he DQs you, hey, you avoid having to play a guy who sounds like a generally bad person, which was your initial concern anyway.

If I'm leading the ladder, I'm DQ'ing the dude who can't get his own transportation together before I'd DQ the dude who's holding down normal adult employment.

This is not a ladder in the truest sense. The indoor club where I play wants to fill the open court times ... so they organize this ladder so folks will buy the left over court time at a reduced rate.

How they organize the ladder is you can play whomever you want ...you get 1 point for a loss and two points for a win. Top four point scorers make the season ending playoffs.

On this ladder I played 4 or 5 guys I know and enjoy playing with ... he played 2 guys almost every other day because they are retired and he is an unemployed painter. He traded painting services at the club for court time so even though he has no job, he gets to play a lot of tennis.

Our circles do not cross in the winter. I know him well because he plays at the same outdoor public facility I frequent in the summer.

 

[TomT]

Don't you have buses there? Is the guy completely broke?
I definitely wouldn't provide transpo for him unless he paid for my gas and my time, in advance.

Looks like you can work it so that he will be disqualified.

 

[asimple]

I have a small subset of people who are on my no play list due to extremely bad on court behavior, and for something like this type of a ladder or potentially even a flex league I would most likely not play them and take the loss. I am competitive but play for fun and matches that aren't fun just aren't worth playing.

I started out kind of agreeing that you should avoid playing this guy, but it really sounds like some of your issues are not with the guy on court but instead his off court behavior and lifestyle. You should either default yourself or be somewhat accommodating with scheduling. As bad as his excuse is it is accurate. Playing games with this guy over scheduling or defaulting him when he would almost certainly beat you seems a bit lame to me.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

This is the e-mail reply I received from Johan today.

Dizz,

Yo,this a. Deal.I'm not messing around. It seems like your schedule is not working.I can only play on weekday mornings period.

Johan

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

This is what I sent the Tourney Director Today ... all Names have been changed for the confidentiality.

Tourney Director,

Johan and I have shared several e-mails attempting to set up a semifinal match for the men’s 4.5 ladder. It has become clear to both of us that our schedules do not match … he can play weekday mornings and Sundays which I could not play … I could play Weekday Evenings and this Saturday which he could not play.

I do not know what you can do with this. I will leave it up to you to decide how to handle it.

Please let me know what you want me to do,
Dizzl

 

[beernutz]

This is what I sent the Tourney Director Today ... all Names have been changed for the confidentiality.

Tourney Director,

Johan and I have shared several e-mails attempting to set up a semifinal match for the men’s 4.5 ladder. It has become clear to both of us that our schedules do not match … he can play weekday mornings and Sundays which I could not play … I could play Weekday Evenings and this Saturday which he could not play.

I do not know what you can do with this. I will leave it up to you to decide how to handle it.

Please let me know what you want me to do,
Dizzl

I would have added in that your employment is what prohibits you from playing weekday mornings. The director may then wonder why Johan can only play then.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

I am sure she knows ... I was trying to make my e-mail as blameless as possible.

 

[tennis tom]

double default

 

[tenniscasey]

This is the e-mail reply I received from Johan today.

Dizz,

Yo,this a. Deal.I'm not messing around. It seems like your schedule is not working.I can only play on weekday mornings period.

Johan

I would send a second email to the director, showing him this message and explaining the transportation issue. These are details they should know, otherwise it sounds like you're both being equally stubborn which clearly is not the case.

 

[J_R_B]

This is what I sent the Tourney Director Today ... all Names have been changed for the confidentiality.

Tourney Director,

Johan and I have shared several e-mails attempting to set up a semifinal match for the men’s 4.5 ladder. It has become clear to both of us that our schedules do not match … he can play weekday mornings and Sundays which I could not play … I could play Weekday Evenings and this Saturday which he could not play.

I do not know what you can do with this. I will leave it up to you to decide how to handle it.

Please let me know what you want me to do,
Dizzl

I definitely would have added that it's not reasonable to expect people with jobs to play only on weekday mornings.

 

[floridatennisdude]

This is the e-mail reply I received from Johan today.

Dizz,

Yo,this a. Deal.I'm not messing around. It seems like your schedule is not working.I can only play on weekday mornings period.

Johan

I would reply with just the link to this thread

 

[OrangePower]

Dizz, this is Johan.

Yo. Where are your priorities. Y. people with jobs are so arrogant. Take PTO don't you ever get sick?your "boss" will understand. You know that I can.only play on weekday mornings period make it work. deal. No more messing.about.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Dizz, dis is Johan. Sup?

Dude, i haf 2 t8ke sum callz during hour mach. Hope dats OK.

call me b4 u pick me up cuz ill be sleepin yo.

 

[TennisCJC]

Play the match. Unless you have an injury or an important life event preventing you from playing, you should play. Try to win.

There's a guy in one of the flex leagues in my area and he is a tool too. He makes bad calls and is rude to boot. I certainly am not going to schedule a practice match with the guy but I would show up to play him in a league match.

 

[J_R_B]

Play the match. Unless you have an injury or an important life event preventing you from playing, you should play. Try to win.

There's a guy in one of the flex leagues in my area and he is a tool too. He makes bad calls and is rude to boot. I certainly am not going to schedule a practice match with the guy but I would show up to play him in a league match.

Burn a vacation day to play a match against a total dooshbag because the only time he can make it to the club happens to be when working people are at work? I think not. It would be one thing if he agreed to play at ANY of the times diz gave him, but when he demanded plaing during weekday mornings, F him. Get the default and move on.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

So the TD contacted us and said to work it out or she will coin flip. He has e-mailed back and said that his schedule is opening up now.

I gave him the same dates as before and I am waiting for a committment one way or the other. We will see.

As it turns out the two other guys in the playoffs are retired so day time works better for them ... but both of them will also play at night so If I advance they would be available to play.

 

[Mike Y]

So the TD contacted us and said to work it out or she will coin flip. He has e-mailed back and said that his schedule is opening up now.

I gave him the same dates as before and I am waiting for a committment one way or the other. We will see.

As it turns out the two other guys in the playoffs are retired so day time works better for them ... but both of them will also play at night so If I advance they would be available to play.

Lol, his "schedule" when he is unemployed is opening up. You should just e-mail him the number for a local taxi service that he can use to go to and from the match. That will solve his transportation issues.

 

[beernutz]

Maybe hitching is an option for Johan. I would totally stop if I saw a hitchhiker carrying a tennis bag unless it had blood on it.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

It is official ... the match has been set at 8PM Monday ... I will try and record the match depending on Johan's permission.

I put my chances at 50/50 ... 25% I will win on the court and 25% that he wont show up at all.

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Maybe hitching is an option for Johan. I would totally stop if I saw a hitchhiker carrying a tennis bag unless it had blood on it.

Best. Post. Ever.

 

[asimple]

It is official ... the match has been set at 8PM Monday ... I will try and record the match depending on Johan's permission.

I put my chances at 50/50 ... 25% I will win on the court and 25% that he wont show up at all.

If you have to ask the question of whether something is a "moral dilemma" or not you already know the answer and are just looking for others to justify your actions. The saddest part is that you are going to be happy if you win by default against a better player in an insignificant ladder match.

 

[floridatennisdude]

If you have to ask the question of whether something is a "moral dilemma" or not you already know the answer and are just looking for others to justify your actions. The saddest part is that you are going to be happy if you win by default against a better player in an insignificant ladder match.

Bro, you clearly haven't read this thread

 

[Bdarb]

Dizz, this is Johan.

Yo. Where are your priorities. Y. people with jobs are so arrogant. Take PTO don't you ever get sick?your "boss" will understand. You know that I can.only play on weekday mornings period make it work. deal. No more messing.about.

Hilarious post.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

I am currently carbo loading* for my big match tomorrow. Just found out that whoever wins our match gets to play against a 65 year old that was bumped to 5.0 .... mostly because he maintains a national age group ranking.



*Carbo Loading: Enjoying a Goose Island 312 Urban Ale on my back deck while listening to some old school rap.

 

[Govnor]

Good luck!!!

 

[tennismonkey]

give him heck dizzle!

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Tale of the tape

Johan ….

12-7 record in 4.5 Singles over the last 3 seasons
42 Years old
Twice played in sectionals / districts
5 feet 5 inches tall, 160 pounds and he plays like it.


Dizzl …

48-10 record in 4.0 doubles over the last 3 years
45 years old, fat, bald, badly out of shape
Team qualified for and I played in sectionals the last three seasons
6 foot 3 inches tall, 240 ponds and I play like it