A path to moving up quickly

[SliceGirl]

I’m new to league tennis but I had a great first year. My record is 31-0 and TLS estimates my dynamic rating at 2.90. I’m pretty close to moving up to a 3.5.
I’d like to move up as quickly as possible and I think the best path to that goal is to play only singles when the fall league starts up. There are so many variables in a doubles pairing and I won’t have any control over who my assigned partner is week by week. I have more confidence in myself as a singles player than I do as part of a random doubles pairing.
Is it bad form to ask a captain to only put me in the line-up for singles? I understand it would limit how many matches I play in, but perhaps a few big singles wins would push my rating over the top. Any advice for a competitive player who’s afraid to get stuck at 3.0?

 

[am1899]

My understanding is, generally, playing a singles match would have more effect on your rating than playing a doubles match. Assuming that’s true, if you play all singles and keep winning, that should hasten your rise to 3.5.

Personally, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with telling your captain that you prefer to play singles. But, if your captain catches on as to why you want to do this...they may or may not be willing to accommodate your request (to facilitate your rise to 3.5). Some captains, for example, may be more interested in you staying at 3.0 - so they can benefit from your winning ways for a longer period of time.

But in a vacuum, certainly there’s nothing wrong with telling a captain that you prefer to play singles. How much the captain chooses to accommodate that request depends on you, the captain, others on the roster, potential opponents, etc.

Kind of refreshing to see someone striving to get bumped up. Most people are trying to game the system to stay where they are, or even get bumped down.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[Cindysphinx]

It’s not bad form to request only singles. Chances are good that your captain will be happy to have a singles specialist.

Can I suggest that you stop worrying about your rating? Worry instead about developing good shots and fitness. The rating will come when your game is ready.

See, what is concerning is that you didn’t say, “I love singles and I hate doubles. Can I ask my captain to play me in singles?” It sounds like you just think singles is the fastest way to 3.5.

Playing singles because you like singles is one thing. Playing singles because you think it will move you up is something else again. It will cause you not to develop certain skills that you would pick up in doubles. This will make you one dimensional in singles rather than being an all court player, and unable to be effective in doubles, most likely. I would suggest the best way to improve would be to take some instruction so that you have solid fundamentals, and play a mixture of singles and doubles, depending on which one you like best.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to get out of the way so that OnTheLine can weigh in.

 

[OnTheLine]

As if on queue.

I second heartily what Cindy said. Stop. Worrying.About.Your.Rating.

The best way to move up is to play well and become a better player than you were before. With your record I would not worry about it. You will likely get bumped no matter what you do in the fall league.

TennisRecord and TLS are both total wastes of time and emotional energy. They are ballparks at best.

I terms of the math .... well playing singles can help your rating if and only if you play against someone with a relatively high rating and beat them. If however that week you draw someone with a low rating and leak a few games it can hurt your rating more drastically than the same scenario in doubles.

In terms of math in doubles, you would want to play with the lowest possible rated person on your team at the highest line possible against higher rated players and then beat them soundly. That will move the needle more quickly than a singles match against a comparably rated player.

But seriously .... stop worrying about it.

What is in terribly bad form is talking about your rating all the time. Particularly to a captain who now thinks it is her responsibility to make certain you get bumped up and that is terribly uncool. Equally bad form to talk about it before during or after a match .... "well that just hurt my rating" or "that should get me bumped" Annoying at best, rude at worst.

Play tennis. Enjoy tennis. Play because you want to play. Improve because you want to improve. The computer will find you and bump you up all by itself if that is what is indicated.

 

[travlerajm]

I personally see nothing wrong with paying attention to your rating and using it as your measuring stick.

I also think TR and TLS are just as meaningful as the USTA rating for people who pay attention to ratings. TR gets updated weekly, which makes it more useful as a motivating tool. I have a friend who texts me his updated TR rating after every match and lets me know his opponent’s rating and how he did. Ratings are part of the fun for some people. Others are happy ignoring them. Nothing wrong with either approach. Just enjoy yourself either way!

 

[Cindysphinx]

I personally see nothing wrong with paying attention to your rating and using it as your measuring stick.

Travelajm, come with me. I want to introduce you to someone. Meet Becky.

Becky is a nice person. or perhaps I should say *was* a nice person. You see, Becky got ahold of those ratings sites, and she has never been the same.

Becky says she "wants to move up." There's nothing wrong with that. Get in shape, lose weight, practice, study, take instruction, get way better. That's how you move up.

Unfortunately, Becky becomes obsessed with moving up, and in her mind this means she must at all times "protect her rating." When you hear that, look out: It means Becky has become impossible to captain.

She insists on having only the strongest partners under the mistaken impression that being carried to a win by a strong partner will help her rating or her game, when the opposite is true.

She blames her partners for all losses and refuses to play with them. She can see their flaws but is blind to her own. The circle of players with whom Becky will lower herself to play with becomes tighter and tighter, like a noose.

She will under no circumstances take one for the team. If we are down to our last 8 players and Becky will have to play with a weak player, she will refuse and instead ask that the captain split up an established pair so she can have their partner. If the captain refuses, Becky will have a conflict and be unavailable.

Having decided that she cannot tolerate all of these weak partners holding her back, she decides to play singles only. She assumes it will be easy to dominate in low-level singles, unaware that there is an army of experienced pushers waiting for her. She doesn't do as well as she had hoped, and constant monitoring of her rating reveals she is going nowhere fast. After a while, she decides to return to doubles, having alienated half the team and having not developed any skills at doubles shots or positioning.

I agree there is nothing wrong with "paying attention" to your rating as a measuring stick. Back in the days before these ratings sites existed, that's really all you could do: pay attention. You couldn't look to see which partners were stronger by .01, and you couldn't obsess over your own rating and bemoan every meaningless dip. Now, it is possible to obsess, and as a captain I really hate it.

OP doesn't sound at all like Becky, so I don't mean to throw shade on her. But Becky? Becky is out there and she deserves a lot of shade.

 

[esgee48]

BITD, there were NTRP level tournaments. I do not recall if there were 3.5 level tournaments, but if they still exist, you might sign up to see if you can go a few rounds. I recall that they started to get a little expensive, so you may need to check out if they have consolation brackets.

 

[OnTheLine]

Read @Cindysphinx post about the nefarious Becky. Twice. Then read it again. This player exists and is impossible to have on your team as a captain or as a teammate. Unpleasant. Unfun. She is the anti-thesis of actually becoming a better player in order to move up in the rankings.

 

[DownTheLineTennis]

I haven’t played much USTA because of the area I’m in, but I think I’ll be able to jump from almost a 2.5 (started at 2.54) to 3.5 (currently a 3.42) in just ten matches. I was able to do it by playing a mix of doubles and singles. I’m pretty new to all of this, but feel like my more lopsided wins are the ones that bumped me the most regardless of what I was playing. For further reference, I only played 3.5 this year though. I’m trying to do the same thing as you, so good luck!!

 

[Max G.]

The easiest way to move up is to play up and win. If you play a bunch of computer-rated 3.5s, and win, you'll be 3.5 in no time, and there's not many ifs ands or buts about it.

Of course, to do that, you have to ACTUALLY be able to beat players at the level you're trying to move up to. If you can't do that, you should focus on getting better until you can.

 

[ptuanminh]

For long term development, playing both single and double is better in my opinion.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I don’t think that fall leagues count for your USTA rating.

 

[OnTheLine]

I don’t think that fall leagues count for your USTA rating.

Depends on the region .... in Intermountain they do ... can't speak to others

 

[Cashman]

Becky is out there and she deserves a lot of shade.

Becky sounds like a strawman.

I know a few players on teams who play purely 'for themselves' and are obsessed with their personal ranking. They are selfish, to be sure - and captains do get frustrated that they can't be counted on to 'take one for the team'.

But there is nothing about playing for your ranking that means:

1. you misunderstand how the ranking system works
2. you blame partners unjustifiably for failures
3. you lack self-awareness about your abilities

In fact, most of these people have been decent enough teammates. Fundamentally they want to succeed, so if you end up paired on a doubles court with them they will usually work with you constructively.

 

[leech]

I echo the sentiment that you should be concerned only with improving your game, not with getting bumped up. Trust the ratings to let you know whether you are ready to get bumped. Getting bumped up prematurely could make things less fun for you and your teams.

If I had to do things over again, I'd have played a mix of singles and doubles my first year in league play. I played exclusively singles when I started playing league tennis as a 3.5, and thus didn't learn any doubles strategy or have any experience volleying or returning serves crosscourt. I got moved up a level the following year but was unsuccessful at singles (4.0 men had too much power and patience for me) and at doubles (I was woefully inept). It wasn't until I got bumped back down to 3.5 did I develop a good enough doubles game to now be successful at 4.0.

 

[ShaunS]

Depends on the region .... in Intermountain they do ... can't speak to others

I wasn't aware that they did not count in any regions. I'm not sure why they'd exclude them. I do know there have been changes how they deal with the "early start leagues" and generating ratings for them though.

My understanding is, generally, playing a singles match would have more effect on your rating than playing a doubles match.

That isn't necessarily true. Singles and doubles matches are scored based off an average of the two players. Granted you will "maintain the difference" between you and your partner's rating, but that doesn't mean a singles match would've changed your rating more. There's been a lot of discussion here, and I don't want to drive the topic too far down this road. Basically if you and your partner are 'pretty good' players, but you cover for each other's relative weaknesses well making a 'very good' team that allows for the possibility of bigger changes. Conversely, if you're both already very good, but you don't mesh well that can be a bit of a hindrance.

I understand it would limit how many matches I play in, but perhaps a few big singles wins would push my rating over the top.

This is an outlook I would stay away from. As long as you're winning matches by "more than your NTRP rating would expect" you will get points in the right direction. I wouldn't take matches off to try and "get bigger bumps". ELO-based systems aren't weighted by number of matches just the expectation of the two players at that time.

The important thing for someone who wants to move up is to play well the entire match. If you're at the top of the range playing someone at the bottom, it may be necessary for you only lose 1 or 2 games to increase your rating. Make sure you're warmed up before you start, and don't let up even if it's 5-0. Expectations are *high* when you're at the top of your league.

Any advice for a competitive player who’s afraid to get stuck at 3.0?

If it's possible for you to "play up" that's what I would recommend. In a league where you're rated near the top, to get a lot of motion each win has to be a lopsided victory. If you're playing people who are higher than you and competing that accomplishes two goals. First, you're confirming to yourself that you can compete at the higher level. Second, you don't only advance for wins. Losing close matches to people rated above you might even get you more credit than thoroughly destroying someone well below your level.

It’s not bad form to request only singles. Chances are good that your captain will be happy to have a singles specialist.

I agree. Don't think I've ever been on a team that had too many singles players.

But there is nothing about playing for your ranking that means:

1. you misunderstand how the ranking system works
2. you blame partners unjustifiably for failures
3. you lack self-awareness about your abilities

I like this outlook. Be aware of how the system works, so that you can do the right things to improve. Don't go out there and hack around to a crappy result because that will detract from your progress. Just don't try to only manage your rating.

I got moved up a level the following year but was unsuccessful at singles (4.0 men had too much power and patience for me) and at doubles (I was woefully inept).

This is not to be overlooked. When you get bumped up, it's possible that you'll struggle to find competitive singles matches, and that could really limit how a team plays you. If you can't play doubles it might mean there's little opportunity to put you in at the higher level on a team trying to win every week. If you enjoy playing doubles then I'd strongly urge you to work on developing your game so you have more chances to play.

 

[am1899]

That isn't necessarily true. Singles and doubles matches are scored based off an average of the two players. Granted you will "maintain the difference" between you and your partner's rating, but that doesn't mean a singles match would've changed your rating more. There's been a lot of discussion here, and I don't want to drive the topic too far down this road. Basically if you and your partner are 'pretty good' players, but you cover for each other's relative weaknesses well making a 'very good' team that allows for the possibility of bigger changes. Conversely, if you're both already very good, but you don't mesh well that can be a bit of a hindrance.

The bold statement is what I was eluding to. In a doubles match, there’s no mechanism for the USTA rating to reflect domination by one of the 2 players in a doubles team, within one match. Still, for any resulting rating increase (or decrease) to be evenly spread (between the 2 players) is probably the only way to do it, certainly without subjectivity.

OTOH when you’re playing singles, there’s less variables - just your rating and your opponent’s. That’s all I was getting at.

I do hear what you’re saying, and I agree that there are some permutations where a doubles match could sway your rating more than a singles match. For one, besides one’s own rating (and your partner, if playing doubles), what happens to your rating after a match also hinges on what your opponent’s rating(s) were going into the match.

And as you pointed out, the score of the match also plays a big role. If, for example, one goes out there and spanks someone who is rated near the top of the level, the player who won is going to see a bigger uptick in their rating, than if that same match was tighter score wise. (I know this is captain obvious for some of us, I’m just pointing it out for OP’s benefit).

 

[ShaunS]

OTOH when you’re playing singles, there’s less variables - just your rating and your opponent’s. That’s all I was getting at.

True. I was drifting dangerously close to "inside baseball" ratings min/maxing, and that's probably not helpful here.

(I know this is captain obvious for some of us, I’m just pointing it out for OP’s benefit).

It's always worthwhile to mention. I had someone recently who expressed skepticism (still not sure they believe me) that your rating can go up from a loss. I thought that was common knowledge by now.

 

[am1899]

Totally with ya @ShaunS! Lots of good exchange of good thoughts and ideas in this thread.

 

[jm1980]

It's always worthwhile to mention. I had someone recently who expressed skepticism (still not sure they believe me) that your rating can go up from a loss. I thought that was common knowledge by now.

And conversely, it can go down (or not change at all) after a win

 

[ShaunS]

And conversely, it can go down (or not change at all) after a win

Yeah. It can be a little frustrating to see that win you were proud of dropped your rating.

I had two of them last year actually, regional & sectional doubles both went to third set tiebreakers. Both were very tough wins, and funny enough the scores were identical: 6-7, 6-4, 1-0. NTRP dropped a bit each time.

That's the inherent difficulty of distilling four people down to two simple numbers to predict results using only game scores.

 

[J_R_B]

I wasn't aware that they did not count in any regions. I'm not sure why they'd exclude them.

In a word - Jason Freeman.

 

[sureshs]

I’m new to league tennis but I had a great first year. My record is 31-0 and TLS estimates my dynamic rating at 2.90. I’m pretty close to moving up to a 3.5.
I’d like to move up as quickly as possible and I think the best path to that goal is to play only singles when the fall league starts up. There are so many variables in a doubles pairing and I won’t have any control over who my assigned partner is week by week. I have more confidence in myself as a singles player than I do as part of a random doubles pairing.
Is it bad form to ask a captain to only put me in the line-up for singles? I understand it would limit how many matches I play in, but perhaps a few big singles wins would push my rating over the top. Any advice for a competitive player who’s afraid to get stuck at 3.0?

 

[ChaelAZ]

I’m new to league tennis but I had a great first year. My record is 31-0 and TLS estimates my dynamic rating at 2.90. I’m pretty close to moving up to a 3.5.
I’d like to move up as quickly as possible...

Going 31-0 will definitely get you bumped. But really if you went 31-0 at 3.0 you self rated too low, so you might start finding your tre competition level and things won't be that easy.

So next you see how you fair in 3.5. If you can do well, you move up. Results will let you know. There is no shortcut.

 

[Cindysphinx]

How does someone go 31-0 as a self-rate and not get DQ's? Were these just super-close matches? Wouldn't you destroy at least three people for three strikes? I wouldn't have thought it possible.

 

[SliceGirl]

I have no idea how I didn’t get a dynamic disqualification this season. I’m now 32-0 and I’ve lost a total of 4 sets. Most matches were not close. My coach is getting a lot of criticism for not intervening sooner, but I was genuinely a beginner when I started playing league tennis last fall. I’ve always been a good athlete, but I was definitely not a tennis player.

I found a 3.5 team at another club that will let me join them, even though I’m not at level yet. The coach was really helpful and said “I don’t know where you belong, but with your record, you’re not playing at the right level.” I’m really excited to see how I fare against stronger competition.

And side note—I’m definitely not a Becky! (Although I do have one on my team, it’s awful.) I just want to play hard and be challenged. I NEVER talk about my record or my rating to my tennis friends or opponents—just this group of internet strangers! (When you’re winning big at the absolute lowest level of tennis possible, well....it’s not much to brag about.)

Thanks for the advice and tips!

 

[OnTheLine]

That makes sense and good on your coach for encouraging you to move up ... better for everyone.

You played last fall ..... did you get a C rating at the end of 2018? If so, that would explain how you didn't get DQed as you were a beginner in the fall and the algorithm allows for a lot of improvement, especially at 3.0 the strike level is quite high.

Enjoy the new level .... at your trajectory may be 4.0 before the new year.

 

[SliceGirl]

That makes sense and good on your coach for encouraging you to move up ... better for everyone.

You played last fall ..... did you get a C rating at the end of 2018? If so, that would explain how you didn't get DQed as you were a beginner in the fall and the algorithm allows for a lot of improvement, especially at 3.0 the strike level is quite high.

Enjoy the new level .... at your trajectory may be 4.0 before the new year.

Thank you!!
I played only a handful of matches in the fall which I would guess was not enough to get the C rating at the end of 2018. I’ve been self-rated since September 2018.

 

[schmke]

Thank you!!
I played only a handful of matches in the fall which I would guess was not enough to get the C rating at the end of 2018. I’ve been self-rated since September 2018.

Have all 32 of your matches been in USTA Adult leagues? Not all matches you play, even in USTA, count towards your rating, so that could be why you didn't get a rating from last Fall, and perhaps also why you haven't yet been DQ'd with your unblemished record.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Don't worry. You've shown no signs of Becky-ness.

Good luck, and do share your adventures with us. OnTheLine and I are both 3.5s, so we will be able to relate no matter what befalls you.