A very important question

[Curious]

What type of swing should a rec player develop so that it works even in situations where their position and balance are less than ideal in match play?, which is most of the time!
I feel like a small forward swing with eyes glued to the ball seems to be a good one in this regard. That naturally means a take back as small as possible.
In a way hitting ground strokes similarly to return of serve. Why do you make a small turn and a short take back on return of serve. Because it’s low percentage otherwise, right? Well, I reckon it’s low percentage hitting ground strokes the way you’re doing it now, too! Going in circles yes, coming back to Mannarino!

 

[johnmccabe]

What type of swing should a rec player develop so that it works even in situations where their position and balance are less than ideal in match play?, which is most of the time!
I feel like a small forward swing with eyes glued to the ball seems to be a good one in this regard. That naturally means a take back as small as possible.
In a way hitting ground strokes similarly to return of serve. Why do you make a small turn and a short take back on return of serve. Because it’s low percentage otherwise, right? Well, I reckon it’s low percentage hitting ground strokes the way you’re doing it now, too! Going in circles yes, coming back to Mannarino!

If you aim at Fed swing, you may get poor man's version of tsitsipas. If you aim at Mannarino FH, I'm afraid it could end up being the bunty shot of park 3.5.

 

[Curious]

If you aim at Fed swing, you may get poor man's version of tsitsipas. If you aim at Mannarino FH, I'm afraid it could end up being the bunty shot of park 3.5.

What’s a bunty shot?
If it’s a flat tap, I don’t mean that. I mean a proper low to high brushing contact. Just the smallest it can be. Very small take back, very short distance from the furthest point in take back to contact. That’s it. Like a return of first serve, like a volley in terms of size.

 

[Curious]

The idea is something like this on both wings.

 

[Curious]

I should’ve stuck to this one and not looked elsewhere.

 

[ballmachineguy]

I should’ve stuck to this one and not looked elsewhere.

Yeah, you should have. But, you won’t. For you, it is all about the journey not the destination. Even if the journey is dozens upon dozens of wrong turns and Groundhog’s Day moments of “haven’t I been here before.”

 

[3loudboys]

No

The idea is something like this on both wings.

Not a fan, Nick finishes his shot and the arms are looser, the guy in the vid looks so tight. That’s not what you want in a situation where you need the shot to compensate for being unbalanced or out of position. Compact is good but has to be loose and repeatable to the player.

 

[Curious]

Yeah, you should have. But, you won’t. For you, it is all about the journey not the destination. Even if the journey is dozens upon dozens of wrong turns and Groundhog’s Day moments of “haven’t I been here before.”

This time I will. You will see.

 

[sovertennis]

This time I will. You will see.

Most likely, you will not, and the journey will continue. For all of us.

 

[3loudboys]

I like what Jeff is describing here … soft relaxed arms on the take back and swinging inside out. Better chance under any situation, especially when under pressure.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I should’ve stuck to this one and not looked elsewhere.

From what I've heard, Mannarino strings his frames at extremely low tensions < 25 lbs. Reportedly even as low as 19 lbs (8.6 kg). His string bed undoubtedly has a very trampoliney effect at those ultra low tensions. High power. And an abnormally long dwell time

These low tensions will have an effect on how he swings. I noticed that his swingpath appears to be very flat (even less steep that Agassi's Fh swingpath). He does not appear to get his racket head below the incoming ball. If you emulate his stroke, you might find it difficult to impart much spin (topspin) to the ball.

Perhaps you might consider studying the Fh swings of Andre Agassi & Justine Benin. Compact takeback but a full follow-thru.

 

[zill]

I should’ve stuck to this one and not looked elsewhere.

perfect. loose, smooth and the ball goes in!

 

[user92626]

Yeah, you should have. But, you won’t. For you, it is all about the journey not the destination. Even if the journey is dozens upon dozens of wrong turns and Groundhog’s Day moments of “haven’t I been here before.”

Life is a journey or do you prefer your destination which is a hole in the ground?

 

[ballmachineguy]

Life is a journey or do you prefer your destination which is a hole in the ground?

I was talking about a forehand. Don’t be so dramatic!

 

[ballmachineguy]

Most likely, you will not, and the journey will continue. For all of us.

TTWers in every Curious thread

https://imgur.com/a/q68OIpa

 

[Chas Tennis]

First, identify the specific sub-motions used by the ATP players for each stroke. Exclude them for the rec players.

 

[5263]

What type of swing should a rec player develop so that it works even in situations where their position and balance are less than ideal in match play?, which is most of the time!
I feel like a small forward swing with eyes glued to the ball seems to be a good one in this regard. That naturally means a take back as small as possible.
In a way hitting ground strokes similarly to return of serve. Why do you make a small turn and a short take back on return of serve. Because it’s low percentage otherwise, right? Well, I reckon it’s low percentage hitting ground strokes the way you’re doing it now, too! Going in circles yes, coming back to Mannarino!

So you want to focus on your Re-Direct game, right?

 

[Daniel Andrade]

There's no way around good tennis. It requires good training and a lot of effort and also listening to good feedback.

How are you training ?

 

[socallefty]

On neutral and offensive balls, there is no excuse for not being in good position with good balance. This is a fundamental that all pros and all decent players possess. If you don’t have that, I suggest learning that and doing a lot of practice drills to make it effortless. This is a basic that coaches will work on with beginners. You should be late or off-balance only on defensive balls. Don’t compensate in other ways for lacking this fundamental fundamental.

Pros hit the ball in many different ways and different styles if you include ATP and WTA. Obviously this means that it is not fundamental to execute the swing and hit the ball only in one particular way. Stop worrying about the swing and work first on the lower body and footwork fundamentals where every pro or good player usually looks alike.

If you worry about the swing, worry about where you are hitting the ball and what type of ball you are hitting - not just how you are hitting the ball. For instance, avoid hitting into the no-hit zone in the middle-middle of the court, learn to serve closer to the lines, hit returns deep and you will win a lot more matches.

 

[5263]

On neutral and offensive balls, there is no excuse for not being in good position with good balance. This is a fundamental that all pros and all decent players possess. If you don’t have that, I suggest learning that and doing a lot of practice drills to make it effortless. This is a basic that coaches will work on with beginners. You should be late or off-balance only on defensive balls. Don’t compensate in other ways for lacking this fundamental fundamental.

Pros hit the ball in many different ways and different styles if you include ATP and WTA. Obviously this means that it is not fundamental to hit it and excel only in one particular way. Stop worrying about the swing and work on the lower body and footwork fundamentals where every pro and good players usually look alike.

If you worry about the swing, worry about where you are hitting the ball and what type of ball you are hitting - not just how you are hitting the ball. For instance, avoid hitting into the no-hit zone in the middle-middle of the court, learn to serve closer to the lines, hit returns deep and you will win a lot more matches.

Dual Objectives... 1 position well to receive the ball, loaded & on balance, and 2. take a quality swing with good fundamentals thru contact.

 

[socallefty]

Dual Objectives... 1 position well to receive the ball, loaded & on balance, and 2. take a quality swing with good fundamentals thru contact.

My only objective is to win the point, then the game, then the set, then the match. Generally the objectives you list vastly improve my chances of winning the point. They are a means to an end and not the end goal for me. I have no regrets about hitting a squash shot while falling over or fully outstretched to win a point if I have to.

 

[Fintft]

Dual Objectives... 1 position well to receive the ball, loaded & on balance, and 2. take a quality swing with good fundamentals thru contact.

When I asked my coach what her tennis philosophy was, she said: "get in position, to hit the ball in front of you".

 

[Morch Us]

What type of swing should a rec player develop so that it works even in situations where their position and balance are less than ideal in match play?, which is most of the time!

Why not the other way? Instead of adjusting your swing, try to move early so that you get into position more often. What many don't realize is that you CAN control the time and space with your shots. An exaggerated example is, if you hit a moonball, you have a lot of time before the next shot. Or another example is, if you hit downtheline with good pace, you know that you have LESS time and MORE distance to recover, before next shot (assuming your shot is not a winner).

Learn to match your targets and trajectory with your sklls and agility. This is similar to the concept of hitting pracice on a backboard. When you hit the board the first time, you feel like you have no time, because you hit it too fast and flat. But after a while you learn to adjust the trajectory and pace so that you can keep a rally, with more balance.

I feel like a small forward swing with eyes glued to the ball seems to be a good one in this regard. That naturally means a take back as small as possible.

You are going to endup with "jerky" motions with even more lazier foot, essentially leading to overuse of tendons and small muscles (and I guarantee you, it won't look like Mannarino when you are on a match court). The obvious danger is injuries along the way.

 

[Fintft]

Why not the other way? Instead of adjusting your swing, try to move early so that you get into position more often. What many don't realize is that you CAN control the time and space with your shots. An exaggerated example is, if you hit a moonball, you have a lot of time before the next shot. Or another example is, if you hit downtheline with good pace, you know that you have LESS time and MORE distance to recover, before next shot (assuming your shot is not a winner).

Learn to match your targets and trajectory with your sklls and agility. This is similar to the concept of hitting pracice on a backboard. When you hit the board the first time, you feel like you have no time, because you hit it too fast and flat. But after a while you learn to adjust the trajectory and pace so that you can keep a rally, with more balance.




You are going to endup with "jerky" motions with even more lazier foot, essentially leading to overuse of tendons and small muscles (and I guarantee you, it won't look like Mannarino when you are on a match court). The obvious danger is injuries along the way.

Another way to counteract being

in situations where their position and balance are less than ideal in match play?

Is to take control of the point - like Chris Evert indicated that's who usually wins the point in the modern game.

 

[Curious]

Why not the other way? Instead of adjusting your swing, try to move early so that you get into position more often. What many don't realize is that you CAN control the time and space with your shots. An exaggerated example is, if you hit a moonball, you have a lot of time before the next shot. Or another example is, if you hit downtheline with good pace, you know that you have LESS time and MORE distance to recover, before next shot (assuming your shot is not a winner).

Learn to match your targets and trajectory with your sklls and agility. This is similar to the concept of hitting pracice on a backboard. When you hit the board the first time, you feel like you have no time, because you hit it too fast and flat. But after a while you learn to adjust the trajectory and pace so that you can keep a rally, with more balance.




You are going to endup with "jerky" motions with even more lazier foot, essentially leading to overuse of tendons and small muscles (and I guarantee you, it won't look like Mannarino when you are on a match court). The obvious danger is injuries along the way.

Yes, already decided to focus only on improving movement, balance, positioning. No more time will be wasted on stroke technique at least until I make significant progress in the above.
If I watch any videos it will be something like these.

 

[Fintft]

Like I said, maybe you should be doing both, as stroke technique might help you control the point.
Do you think that power players want to rally with Djokovic or De Minaur? Or that they'll train their movement in order to match those?
Or serve bots like Isner or Raonic would aim to outlast Djokovic and De Minaur?

 

[Curious]

Like I said, maybe you should be doing both, as stroke technique might help you control the point.
Do you think that power players want to rally with Djokovic or De Minaur? Or that they'll train their movement in order to match those?
Or serve bots like Isner or Raonic would aim to outlast Djokovic and De Minaur?

It’s like saying to an addict, ok get some but not much, ok?

 

[Morch Us]

No more time will be wasted on stroke technique at least until I make significant progress in the above.

a take back as small as possible

Didn't you comment above saying you were trying to modify your stroke ? (in the wrong direction).

 

[Fintft]

It’s like saying to an addict, ok get some but not much, ok?

Or drink your fill.
Another example: you could be like a former provincial junior champ, close to 70, who would win almost any ball that he could get his racquet on, due to his technique and timming.

PS
Just don't over obsess over minute technical details, I think.

 

[Curious]

Didn't you comment above saying you were trying to modify your stroke ? (in the wrong direction).

Changed plan since.
Current plan is to use my current strokes and work on movement.

 

[5263]

My only objective is to win the point, then the game, then the set, then the match. Generally the objectives you list vastly improve my chances of winning the point. They are a means to an end and not the end goal for me. I have no regrets about hitting a squash shot while falling over or fully outstretched to win a point if I have to.

yes, but the squash shot has solid fundamentals and I expect you got into the best position you could to hit it...