Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Rafael Nadal vs Sam Querry
Madrid M1000
6-4 6-2
Clay
Aces
Nadal 1 Querry 9
LOL, Hi!
Fast clay.
On "slow" grass: 75 62 62
Ace: Nadal 10 Querrey 22.
AELTC Head of Courts and Horticulture: "Conditions are the same as last year's and years prior"
- Thread starter jm1980
- Start date
Fast clay.
On "slow" grass: 75 62 62
Ace: Nadal 10 Querrey 22.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
22/78 points won were aces.
Let's compare.
Madrid, 18 games played, 10 aces, 0.55 aces / game
Wimbledon, 28 games played, 32 aces, 1.14 aces / game
sure, there is no difference, pretty much both surfaces play the same, just a different color
who needs data when everyone is an expert and can see with "bare eye" that courts are as slow as clay?
even better, today's grass is slower than the lightning fast clay of the past
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
So it's actually faster than 2016.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, it is. If you don't know what the information you quoted means that is.
I like facts over the meaningless opinions of salty fans of tennis players on the internet.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
I like facts over the meaningless opinions of salty fans of tennis players on the internet.
Djokovic is Nadal.
Fact.
Well, at least according to you.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Well, it doesn't really prove that much, but it's normal numbers for grass.
TheIntrovert
Hall of Fame
Fine. Let’s say that the grass is playing the same as last year. But does that mean this is how grass is meant to play? Take your nadal obsession aside for a second and think about the the sport for a change.
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Make the grass a few mm's longer.
but they publish the targeted length of the grass on the page, and even how often do they trim the grass at various stage, including during tournament days...
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Three or four minutes ago, one of the ESPN commentators (I wasn't sure whether it was Pam Shriver or the non-tennis-playing presenter, whose name I forget) just said of the Halep/Svitolina semi that it was just like a match played at Roland Garros and noted that Bethanie Mattek-Sands has been saying throughout the event that the grass is "so much slower." Emphasis was present in her voice.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
I think the problem is they are denying that the courts are slower (maybe they are not slower), but play is definitely slower. They should figure out why instead of denying it. Or they know why (balls or weather) and are hiding the truth.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Trust me, they know perfectly well what they're doing, it's deliberate.
They're tailoring the conditions to get their $$$ match-ups.
Whether it's the ball or the court, end result is still the same. Majority of the people actually using the courts are saying that Wimbledon plays unusually slow this year.
icedevil0289
G.O.A.T.
i mean you had pella be like this court is so nice, you can almost play like its a clay court, and now its better because in previous years it used to be better for servers like karlovic and im like oy vey so much wrong with this statement.
mightyrick
Legend
Excellent post. This. 100%. They need to stop with these red-herring lawyer-like answers where they answer a very specific question with a very specific detail which doesn't address the premise. You either think that the vast majority of top tennis players in the world are in a state of mass-hysteria, or you think there is something to their claims. They just need to find out what it is and fix it.
Wimbledon has a long legacy of asserting that players are 100% wrong and AELTC is 100% right.
zagor
Bionic Poster
It may be a wrong statement but it's an honest one. I vastly prefer it to this charade.
Boy, do I miss times when tennis required players to adapt instead of the tourney adapting to them.
icedevil0289
G.O.A.T.
well i mean one it references karlovic (first of all when was the last time he did well at wimbledon) makes it seem like wimbledon is about all serve thus excluding other types of players which is why pella is happy it is slower, and then also this happiness that it plays like a surface that is meant to be the complete opposite so I laugh when players are like we have to adjust because we go from the slowest surfaces to the fastest.
also idc if i sound like a delusional fan, fed imo does not get enough credit for having to adapt throughout his career and yes I know he also benefited from surface homogenization (he himself admited it) but if im not mistaken he started out as more of a s&v coming up, adapted his game to have a stronger baseline came, was more of an all court player, then more of an aggressive baseliner, and then made is shift again with the bigger racket.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Sure, Karlovic reached one Wimbledon QF in his life (2009) so yes, Pella's wrong in that regard. Old slick grass is not a servebot paradise, it just makes the serve more effective but also brings other elements into play (hitting off the low bounce, improvisation, volleying, return of serve, slice etc.) which is why one-dimensional servebots never did well on it.
However, I think he mostly meant it as a hyperbole and as I said, I'm glad he's honest about it, it's refreshing.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
These are the ones who are actually playing professional matches on the courts.
Rafael Nadal sides with Roger Federer to reject Wimbledon claims
RAFAEL NADAL has sided with Roger Federer over claims Wimbledon's court speeds have changed this year.
By MIKAEL MCKENZIE
PUBLISHED: 12:35, Mon, Jul 8, 2019 | UPDATED: 15:37, Mon, Jul 8, 2019
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/1150614/Rafael-Nadal-Roger-Federer-Wimbledon
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Federer hasn't rejected any claims. Quite the opposite. He said that certain shots end up different than in the past, and not in a way expected for the surface. Fake news from the useless rag that Express is.
California
Semi-Pro
Exactly. They know, they have been slowing down the conditions since maybe 2001? It isn't an accident. It was a specific plan to create slower play and more rallies. Not sure who they think they are kidding with this narrative. Almost every player, and commentator is saying the same thing. Fans can see it on tv, the ball bounces low but doesn't move quickly off or through the court.
AceSalvo
Legend
Still, a video with 100 views showing a official claiming something that has no visible proof trumps everything, according to OP.
There is no official explanation in any tennis media outlet I know of. A YouTube Video is not an official explanation.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Well they did address the humidity in the air which will absolutely slow the game down. And I don't think the grounds crew decides which ball to use. I think they were honest as far as creating the court the ame way. They have been asked multiple times about the courts yet no other Wimbledon Officials have been brought into comment about the speed this year. I just think people are too fixated on one factor of the speed, and keep banging their heads on a dead end.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Pella never reached that far in Wimbledon before and the grass changes day by day.
And.... Last year the Isner Anderson match was a tragedy and Wimbledon made changes because of that w the tiebreak. It was THAT boring.
Them going that far in a slam says a lot. Its not like those two would ever reach RG final.
And besides.... The players have the same conditions. NO EXCUSES.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Are you saying the video is doctored? The video is just a segment of a BBC broadcast that I uploaded and posted here. How is the number of views relevant?
We also have segments of Stubley's interview echoed on this Washington Post article.
The forums have been bombarded with reports from players and claims from commentators saying the courts are slow. There is very little in the way of official explanations. We had Tim Henman, a member of the AELTC board, claiming "everything was done the same" (via this Federer interview with Swiss media). And we have this interview with Stubley, the guy who managers the courts at Wimbledon. This one is probably as close to an official explanation as we'll ever get.
I posted both of these things here because it's all anyone from Wimbledon has said on the subject. If you find anything else, feel free to post it here.
Also, my posting of these views does not mean that I endorse them or agree with them.
Last edited:
AceSalvo
Legend
Hello Liar, no the vedio you posted is not part of the Washington Post article. The only person referenced in the article is the ITF official Jamie-Caple Davis which is obviously not the same person in the doctored video.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Asked whether the pace has slowed over the years, Neil Stubley, head of courts and horticulture at the All England Club, said: “I’m sure it has, but I think players’ styles probably contribute to that, as well.”
“Probably racket technology, string technology, how players can manipulate the ball more, all has a factor,” Stubley added — and he didn’t even mention other elements such as temperature or humidity that can play a role.
Hmmm, this sounds awfully familiar.
Last edited:
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
So the "doctored" video in the OP has this part of the interview, but the rest where he says everything is the same is fabricated?
Apun94
Hall of Fame
You have got to be kidding me with this. Nadal is one of the most aggressive players on grass now. Give him a neutral ball and he'll pummel it from both wingsWhen players like Goffin, Pella or Nishikori reach the latter stages of Wimbledon and Nadal wins 2 sets 6-2, 6--2 against a big server like Querrey (and doing this by playing clay court like tennis), you know that something is wrong
AceSalvo
Legend
There. The article references nothing about “Conditions are the same as last year”.
Neil mentions a standard testing procedure which even I knew before that video released.
Did you forget to mention Neil also said this:
Asked whether the pace has slowed over the years, Neil Stubley, head of courts and horticulture at the All England Club, said: “I’m sure it has, but I think players’ styles probably contribute to that, as well.”
Wonder why Neil has to use the word “probably” if he has the ITF results.
Last edited:
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm really flattered that you think I have the resources to hire three people to go to Wimbledon (or better, construct a replica of Centre Court somewhere), have them wear Mission Impossible style masks to look like Wimbledon officials and BBC employees, just so I can record a video and win an argument on the Internet. All this in a span of a few days.
But the worst tragedy of this debacle, is that you are in such a hurry to antagonize me that you didn't even notice I'm actually on your side in this debate. I actually agree with Fed and the others when they say the conditions look slow. I'm just searching for an official explanation, and there has been very little in that front.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Here is the reason why. If they say they slowed down play, people (many) would ask why would you do that? He would have to respond with a very good answer, one he does not have, or can not give the real reason.
AceSalvo
Legend
Gee, I couldnt tell by all your “poasts”.
-NN-
G.O.A.T.
AceSalvo
Legend
So now reporting and validating “news” has become Federer vs Nadal?
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The financial incentive to ensure conditions facilitate a Federer v Nadal re-match would be something that that would have been on their minds for the best part of a decade.
Not that they could ever admit such.
You could even argue that it's a pity that the two don't meet every year at Wimbledon, but the tournament structure does not allow for what the public wants!
Not that they could ever admit such.
You could even argue that it's a pity that the two don't meet every year at Wimbledon, but the tournament structure does not allow for what the public wants!
AceSalvo
Legend
didn't you say that the first??
Why repeat the same thing.
How about now??
Similar threads
- Poll
