Andy Murray and Rafa Nadal and a surface issje

[nolefam_2024]

Andy Murray has played very few clay finals.
His H2H vs Nadal is mere 7-17.

Nadal leads both clay and non clay events. He is 7-2 on clay and 10-5 on non clay.

But they have played only 4 finals. And none at slam level. And Murray somehow bageled Nadal.

Between 2005 and 2016, Nadal and Murray made 20 and 11 finals respectively. That's out of 48 possible events. But not once did they meet in a slam final.

Nadal made most of his slam finals on clay while Andy made 1 slam final in 2016 on clay.

Nadal made 5 slam finals on grass and Andy made 3 slam finals on grass. This is their most neutral surface but they only faced each other in 2011 last time. Andy's first final came in 2012 and Nadal's last final came in 2011.

Nadal was AO finalist in 2009 2012 2014 2017
While Andy was finalist in 2010 2011 2013 2015 and 2016. They are in final for all years between 2009 to 2017 but never met once.

In USopen as well, Nadal was in final in 2010, 2011, 2013 while Andy was in final between 2008 2012.

I find it very strange to believe they never met each other in slam finals once. Especially in AO they were failing to reach each other year after year.

 

[Wurm]

But they have played only 4 finals. And none at slam level. And Murray somehow bageled Nadal.

And Murray's 3-1 in them.

On hard courts the H2H is 7-5 to Rafa... that's where Murray was very competitive with Rafa and the surface where he properly bageled Rafa:

The other final he bageled Rafa was down to injury.

He's also beaten Rafa three times (09, 15, and 21) on hard courts, including another bagel in 2015, at the Abu Dhabi exhibition tournament that's a fairly meaty mini-tournament event where they do tend to go at it properly but it's up to the reader to decide how significant those matches are.

The clay H2H is not a mystery. That Murray actually beat him in 2015/16 is part down to Murray's big uptick in clay court prowess for those two years and Rafa having a bit of a struggle with his game for those two years. The Wimbledon 3-0 in Rafa's favour was always the slightly odd one.

 

[Neptune]

But they have played only 4 finals. And none at slam level

Anybody knows why??

 

[MichaelNadal]

Anybody knows why??

Destiny

 

[President]

Nadal's 3-0 Wimbledon head to head against Murray is extremely impressive, given Murray's grasscourt level during those years and how many here (somewhat understandably, given the bad losses Nadal subsequently suffered against lesser players) denigrate Rafael's level on grass.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Nadal missed hella slams
Draw
Fed and Djo need to both lose in SF or earlier

^
Most likely why they never met in a slam final.

 

[Wurm]

Nadal's 3-0 Wimbledon head to head against Murray is extremely impressive, given Murray's grasscourt level during those years and how many here (somewhat understandably, given the bad losses Nadal subsequently suffered against lesser players) denigrate Rafael's level on grass.

Rafa's movement on grass was always exceptional, he hits with a straight arm forehand (and doesn't actually use that extreme a grip) which helps with low, skiddy bounces* and he's always had a good slice backhand that probably doesn't get as much love as it perhaps ought. The issue for Rafa on grass is that he's not an exceptional returner** and doesn't have a first serve that reliably picks up cheap points so there were a few more banana skin match-ups, particularly in the first week, that he simply didn't suffer from on clay and suffered a lot less from on hard courts.

I seem to remember looking up his runs to the final a few years ago and it was noticeable that his first 3 or 4 rounds were almost a fait accompli in terms of match-up. I'd have to double check that to see if I'm full of sh*t or not though.

* Novak works around this by being ridiculously good at getting his body low to compensate.
** we don't need to go over how clay courts clearly inflate returning stats for elite clay court players.

 

[CoolCoolCool]

Nothing really surprising about Rafa being 3-0 against him on grass. They just don't belong in the same tier, regardless of the surface.