Andy Roddick does not have the best serve

[esc226]

It's time to stop saying Roddick has the best serve in mens tennis. He may consistentely have the fastest and most power but it's not the best.
I think that distinction should go to Federer. Look at how Fed out served Roddick in the Wimbledon final (he had 50+ aces!). If you looked at the 5th set you kind of got the feeling that Fed could have served 100 more games, he wasn't going to get broken. He either aced him or set himself up to have a big advantage in all his service rallies. Roddick was definetely fighting to win most of his service games and it was inevetiable he was going to crack, towards the end his last 3 service games went to 30-30 or deuce.
I think everyone assumes Andy has the best serve cuz he can clock it at 140 and looks like he puts everything into it. And no one notices Fed cuz he serves 20 mph slower and does is so smoothly. But when you look at the stats Fed usually outserves Andy badly. I think in the US open he out aced him 20+ to 6 or something like that and same thing in the Aussie open this year. His precision to hit the corners are unbeleivable.
I'm not saying his serve is best ever, I still think that goes to Sampras, but it's insulting to Fed to say Roddick has a better serve when Fed always destroys him in serving everytime they meet.

 

[FD3S]

Look at the serve stats for the tour - Roddick's close to leading most of the categories.

 

[Kemitak]

But, even though Federer served more aces, Roddick served many unreturnables. The stats have as much to do with returning as they do with serving.

 

[backhand winner]

Karlovic has the best serve. Roddick can back up his serve better I think.

 

[viduka0101]

It's time to stop saying Roddick has the best serve in mens tennis. He may consistentely have the fastest and most power but it's not the best.
I think that distinction should go to Federer. Look at how Fed out served Roddick in the Wimbledon final (he had 50+ aces!). If you looked at the 5th set you kind of got the feeling that Fed could have served 100 more games, he wasn't going to get broken. He either aced him or set himself up to have a big advantage in all his service rallies. Roddick was definetely fighting to win most of his service games and it was inevetiable he was going to crack, towards the end his last 3 service games went to 30-30 or deuce.
I think everyone assumes Andy has the best serve cuz he can clock it at 140 and looks like he puts everything into it. And no one notices Fed cuz he serves 20 mph slower and does is so smoothly. But when you look at the stats Fed usually outserves Andy badly. I think in the US open he out aced him 20+ to 6 or something like that and same thing in the Aussie open this year. His precision to hit the corners are unbeleivable.
I'm not saying his serve is best ever, I still think that goes to Sampras, but it's insulting to Fed to say Roddick has a better serve when Fed always destroys him in serving everytime they meet.

he had 50 aces and that doesn't mean that Federer won more free points in the end with his serve,count just the amount of free points Roddick getting from powerful first serves to the body,also consider Roddicks average return game,another thing Roddick broke twice to Federers one break conversion

they showed a serve placement statistic during the final and showed how Roddick served totally the oposite to the way he served in the final 2004 and 2005

finally,one match doesn't prove anything just like a 13-7 doesn't tell who actually acomplished more

 

[esc226]

Look at the serve stats for the tour - Roddick's close to leading most of the categories.

This is because the serve is Roddick's best shot. Without out the serve he wouldn't even be a top 20 player. Against most players I think Fed just spins it in cuz he wants to rally a little. He always seems to pick it up against Roddick though. I think it's to send a message to Andy that when he wants to, his serve is more dominant

 

[zagor]

Sorry I'm a Fed fan but I think Roddick clearly has the better serve,it ain't all about aces,Roddick serves a lot of unreturnable serves(service winners)against everyone.Plus he has a better second serve and his serve almost never has downs during the whole year which is not something I can say for Fed's serve which is wonderful when on but can go through some bad periods during the year.

 

[viduka0101]

This is because the serve is Roddick's best shot. Without out the serve he wouldn't even be a top 20 player. Against most players I think Fed just spins it in cuz he wants to rally a little. He always seems to pick it up against Roddick though. I think it's to send a message to Andy that when he wants to, his serve is more dominant

you mean like Karlovic and his career high 14 rank

 

[esc226]

he had 50 aces and that doesn't mean that Federer won more free points in the end with his serve,count just the amount of free points Roddick getting from powerful first serves to the body,also consider Roddicks average return game,another thing Roddick broke twice to Federers one break conversion

they showed a serve placement statistic during the final and showed how Roddick served totally the oposite to the way he served in the final 2004 and 2005

finally,one match doesn't prove anything just like a 13-7 doesn't tell who actually acomplished more

1) Andy broke Fed not because he was taking advantage of his serve but because Fed got lazy with some of his ground strokes which he tends to do from time to time.
2) Perhaps Aces and Free points don't mean as much then the overall "effectiveness" of the serve to win the point. In the 5th set Fed just looked so dominant on his serve whether he was acing him or not. He had control of almost every point even up to the end. But for Roddick it seemed he was usually at Fed's mercy everytime Fed returned his serve in play. The serve is meant to set you up for the point and give you an advantage. Roddick rarely had that when his serve was returned. That's probably a testiment to Fed's return game as well.

 

[quest01]

Roddicks serve is harder but Federer places the ball better.

 

[MajinX]

okay arguement but bad facts and points, u cant look at matches b/w two players and look at aces to say who has the better serve... the serve is a stroke that is independent of the opponent, so it shouldnt be measured by how well the opposing player returns it but how well the average player returns it.

 

[viduka0101]

1) Andy broke Fed not because he was taking advantage of his serve but because Fed got lazy with some of his ground strokes which he tends to do from time to time.
2) Perhaps Aces and Free points don't mean as much then the overall "effectiveness" of the serve to win the point. In the 5th set Fed just looked so dominant on his serve whether he was acing him or not. He had control of almost every point even up to the end. But for Roddick it seemed he was usually at Fed's mercy everytime Fed returned his serve in play. The serve is meant to set you up for the point and give you an advantage. Roddick rarely had that when his serve was returned.That's probably a testiment to Fed's return game as well.

1) Yeah right
2)He served pretty good in the fifth but Roddick definitely wasn't at his mercy on his serve.

I have to go eat now,bye

 

[dincuss]

It's time to stop saying Roddick has the best serve in mens tennis. He may consistentely have the fastest and most power but it's not the best.
I think that distinction should go to Federer. Look at how Fed out served Roddick in the Wimbledon final (he had 50+ aces!). If you looked at the 5th set you kind of got the feeling that Fed could have served 100 more games, he wasn't going to get broken. He either aced him or set himself up to have a big advantage in all his service rallies. Roddick was definetely fighting to win most of his service games and it was inevetiable he was going to crack, towards the end his last 3 service games went to 30-30 or deuce.
I think everyone assumes Andy has the best serve cuz he can clock it at 140 and looks like he puts everything into it. And no one notices Fed cuz he serves 20 mph slower and does is so smoothly. But when you look at the stats Fed usually outserves Andy badly. I think in the US open he out aced him 20+ to 6 or something like that and same thing in the Aussie open this year. His precision to hit the corners are unbeleivable.
I'm not saying his serve is best ever, I still think that goes to Sampras, but it's insulting to Fed to say Roddick has a better serve when Fed always destroys him in serving everytime they meet.

Failpost.

Federer may have more aces, but Roddick won more points off of his serve.
Federer has a much better return games than roddick, so he could get atleast a racquet on the ball and roddicks serve placement was not the best.
Whereas Federer has a well placed serve and a "less skilled" returner.

 

[catskillthunder]

I think it boils down to Roddick being inferior as a returner, rather then Federer being a better server.

 

[deltox]

I think it boils down to Roddick being inferior as a returner, rather then Federer being a better server.

you are right with this one, as for someone saying federer places the ball better, they didnt see the shot spot serve aces and service winners chart after the final. roddick placement was ALWAYS deep and in a corner expect the 7-10 body serves whereas federer had some short balls and alot down the middle 1/4 and 3/4 alley.

Roddick has the best serve ever in mens tennis (first and second combined). haters just gonna have to get over it, he backs it up with the world record speed as well.

 

[The_Question]

Roddicks serve is harder but Federer places the ball better.

Exactly. It's not always about the speed, but the placement/setup for the following shots...

 

[FedFan_2009]

Check the stats:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/MatchFacts.aspx

Roger is among the top 3 in all important serving stats.

 

[deltox]

Check the stats:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/MatchFacts.aspx

Roger is among the top 3 in all important serving stats.

you would have a case for what your saying except .. ahh just let me show you what i see.

Aces
1.Ivo 643
2.Roddick 614 (29 behind)
3.Roger 425 (218 behind)

1st Serve %
1.Verdasco 74%
2.Starace 73%
3.Roddick 71%
22.Federer 62%

1st Serve Points Won
1.Ivo 85%
2.Federer 79%
2. Roddick 79%

2nd Serve points Won
1.Nadal 57%
1.Federer 57%
1.Roddick 57%

Service Games Won
1. Ivo 92%
2. Roddick 91%
3. Federer 90%

so yes federer is indeed in the top 3 of alot but he is usually on par with or below roddick who is higher ranked in nearly every statistic of the serve.

Roddick is a better server than federer even by the numbers, especially with the huge difference in Aces and 1st Serve %

 

[catskillthunder]

Check the stats:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/MatchFacts.aspx

Roger is among the top 3 in all important serving stats.

Looks to me that Andy bests him or ties him in most of the stats. Dont forget some of the stats are not just pure serving stats. For example, % of 1st/2nd serve points won. Lets not forget that Roger is the greatest tennis player to ever live, of course he's going to have high % due to his overall game after he serves. Roddick pretty much depends on his serve, short ball returns.

 

[madmanfool]

Funny how you want to use the aces count as an indication who has the better serve, because I can trow that one straight back at you. I think during the beginning of the fifth set, they showed the number of points won with the serve, at the baseline and at the net on the BBC. Roddick's number on the serve was much better than Federer's and even at that point Federer was out acing him.
Here is another one. Agassi was one of the best returners, yet he was relatively easy to ace. Just saying that aces aren't the whole story.

 

[Joseph L. Barrow]

How many times is this going to come up? Federer does not serve as well as Roddick, and that is more or less factually undeniable. Roddick and Federer have the same number of ATP matches (46) recorded stats-wise, and in those 46 matches, Roddick has hit 189 more aces than Federer has, has had a consistently higher first serve percentage and has held serve more often. Moreover, this holds true if you examine their "service-holds-against-top-10-opponents," "service-holds-against-Nadal-Murray-and-Djokovic" or any other similar standard- Roddick holds serve more often than Federer does, in spite of the fact that Federer is better at every single stroke in the game except for the serve, meaning Roddick's serve is apparently MUCH better than Federer's.

As for their Wimbledon final, Federer did not outserve Roddick, but rather he outreturned Roddick. Federer reads serves well, is light on his feet and has extremely fast reflexes, meaning it is very hard to get a serve past him, while Roddick is probably the easiest player to ace out of the current ATP top 10; his opponents regularly hit unusually high ace totals against him, because he just doesn't have good serve anticipation by the standards of a high-level professional player.

Furthermore, in this Wimbledon final, Federer's serve was broken twice, while Roddick's was broken only once, in spite of the fact that Roddick was serving to a much better returner than Federer was. Even if they had both been serving to an indiscriminate serve-returning robot and had come up with precisely the same statistics they did in this match, the indication would STILL be that Roddick ultimately had the more effective serve, regardless of who had the "sexier" ace count, since his serve was only broken once- but this is not the case, since Roddick and Federer had much different opponents across the net attempting to return their respective serves, with Roddidck's opponent being by far the more difficult.

Federer has a good-but not great- serve, which he is able to parlay into a very high service-games-held average because he is outstanding at every stroke in tennis and can accordingly protect his already-good serve extremely admirably. Roddick is much more dodgy than Federer at more or less every non-serve stroke, and hence his superior results in service games indicate his serve must be better than Federer's by a wide margin in order to compensate for the gap between their other assets.

 

[catskillthunder]

How many times is this going to come up? Federer does not serve as well as Roddick, and that is more or less factually undeniable. Roddick and Federer have the same number of ATP matches (46) recorded stats-wise, and in those 46 matches, Roddick has hit 189 more aces than Federer has, has had a consistently higher first serve percentage and has held serve more often. Moreover, this holds true if you examine their "service-holds-against-top-10-opponents," "service-holds-against-Nadal-Murray-and-Djokovic" or any other similar standard- Roddick holds serve more often than Federer does, in spite of the fact that Federer is better at every single stroke in the game except for the serve, meaning Roddick's serve is apparently MUCH better than Federer's.

As for their Wimbledon final, Federer did not outserve Roddick, but rather he outreturned Roddick. Federer reads serves well, is light on his feet and has extremely fast reflexes, meaning it is very hard to get a serve past him, while Roddick is probably the easiest player to ace out of the current ATP top 10; his opponents regularly hit unusually high ace totals against him, because he just doesn't have good serve anticipation by the standards of a high-level professional player.

Furthermore, in this Wimbledon final, Federer's serve was broken twice, while Roddick's was broken only once, in spite of the fact that Roddick was serving to a much better returner than Federer was. Even if they had both been serving to an indiscriminate serve-returning robot and had come up with precisely the same statistics they did in this match, the indication would STILL be that Roddick ultimately had the more effective serve, regardless of who had the "sexier" ace count, since his serve was only broken once- but this is not the case, since Roddick and Federer had much different opponents across the net attempting to return their respective serves, with Roddidck's opponent being by far the more difficult.

Federer has a good-but not great- serve, which he is able to parlay into a very high service-games-held average because he is outstanding at every stroke in tennis and can accordingly protect his already-good serve extremely admirably. Roddick is much more dodgy than Federer at more or less every non-serve stroke, and hence his superior results in service games indicate his serve must be better than Federer's by a wide margin in order to compensate for the gap between their other assets.

LOL thats what I tried to say in my last post. GG

 

[madmanfool]

Those stats from the ATP don't tell the whole story either. For example, while having played around the same number of matches, Federer played 18 on gravel, while Roddick only played 7.

 

[Joseph L. Barrow]

Those stats from the ATP don't tell the whole story either. For example, while having played around the same number of matches, Federer played 18 on gravel, while Roddick only played 7.

Yes, but I already addressed this in my last post. Roddick does better on serve than Federer does UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. How about we look at their year-to-date service-game statistics only in non-clay-court matches and only against Nadal, Murray and Djokovic? Do you not agree that this represents an accurate, unbiased one-to-one comparison of their serving?


Only on surfaces other than clay in year-to-date matches, Roddick has held:
-8 of 11 service games against Nadal (about 72.7%)
-26 of 31 service games against Murray (about 83.8%)
-23 of 24 service games against Djokovic (about 95.8%)
TOTAL: 57 of 66 service games won, or about 86.4%

Only on surfaces other than clay in year-to-date matches, Federer has held:
-19 of 26 service games against Nadal (about 73.1%)
-18 of 27 service games against Murray (about 66.7%)
-7 of 13 service games against Djokovic (about 53.8%)
TOTAL: 46 of 66 service games won, or about 69.7%

And yes, it is simply a nice coincidence that they have both played the same number of total service games under these circumstances to make this comparison even more direct. The Nadal stat is approximately even between the two of them, while Roddick's numbers are MUCH better against both Murray and Djokovic, as are his overall totals. Given (as we agree) that Federer hits every other stroke better than Roddick does, there is exactly one factor which accounts for this discrepancy- Roddick serves better than Federer does, and he does so by a wide margin.

 

[coloskier]

I think the best stat for who has the best serve would be this:

% of serves that were not returned into play.

Don't know where to find that stat.

 

[NamRanger]

I think the best stat for who has the best serve would be this:

% of serves that were not returned into play.

Don't know where to find that stat.

They used to have them somewhere but not anymore. I'm 100% sure Roddick has more of those though.

 

[deltox]

Funny how you want to use the aces count as an indication who has the better serve, because I can trow that one straight back at you. I think during the beginning of the fifth set, they showed the number of points won with the serve, at the baseline and at the net on the BBC. Roddick's number on the serve was much better than Federer's and even at that point Federer was out acing him.
Here is another one. Agassi was one of the best returners, yet he was relatively easy to ace. Just saying that aces aren't the whole story.

but when all else is relatively equal anyways, then its a strong indication of who has the edge.

 

[Feña14]

Karlovic has the best serve. Roddick can back up his serve better I think.

We have a winner!

The speed and great height that he serves from makes it near enough impossible to get a racket on at times.

Roddick has an awesome serve and he backs it up better than Karlovic can.

 

[Joseph L. Barrow]

but when all else is relatively equal anyways, then its a strong indication of who has the edge.

Yes, but Roddick even hits many more aces than Federer does against any given opponent- there is a giant logical fallacy underlying the "Federer-out-aced-Roddick-and-therefore-serves-better" line that goes around every time they play one another, and that is that Federer and Roddick were not serving to the same person. If, say, Nadal were serving to me (utterly aceable by a professional level player) and Federer were serving to Monfils (the hardest player on tour to ace), I don't doubt Nadal would hit about 10 times as many aces as Federer would, but this obviously would not prove that Nadal had a better serve than Federer. Only a comparison of how many aces they hit while serving to the same person would be indicative of whose serving was "better," or at least more effective at registering aces.

Now, when Federer and Roddick each serve to the same person, Roddick hits many more aces than Federer does and holds his serve noticeably more often (see the statistics from my last post in this thread). This is because Roddick serves better than Federer does.

 

[NamRanger]

Roddick clearly has a better serve than Federer, by a significant margin. Case closed.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Roddick clearly has a better serve than Federer, by a significant margin. Case closed.

Agreed Roddick serves more aces during a season as well of serving more unreturnables.

 

[quest01]

Exactly. It's not always about the speed, but the placement/setup for the following shots...

I could say the same thing about Sampras too.

 

[Tennis_Bum]

Sorry I'm a Fed fan but I think Roddick clearly has the better serve,it ain't all about aces,Roddick serves a lot of unreturnable serves(service winners)against everyone.Plus he has a better second serve and his serve almost never has downs during the whole year which is not something I can say for Fed's serve which is wonderful when on but can go through some bad periods during the year.

Don't be sorry, because I do agree with you. When Fed's serve is on, he's great, but when it's not on, man, Fed looks awful. Whether Roddick is a better server that Fed, this debate can go on forever. I do like Roddick's new body serve, well new, because he uses more now. I wish Fed would sometimes to to body when serving to Murray, because Murray stays too far back and the corners and down the T really don't hurt Murray on 2nd serves. But that's is for Fed to do when he plays Murray.

In short, I like Fed's serve more than Roddick's when Fed's serve is on, but I think Roddick's serve is more consistent though. Fed's serve is slower for sure, but it has movement in terms of variety. I think Roddick goes more with power, which is nice but not necessarily make his opponents off balance as much as Fed. But the new body serve that Roddick hits, makes Fed very uncomfortable and I like it a lot.

 

[hate machine]

roddick has the best serve.

federer fans think federer is the best at everything, just a way of life

 

[Blade0324]

I think it boils down to Roddick being inferior as a returner, rather then Federer being a better server.

Well said and 100% correct.

 

[CountryHillbilly]

Roddick didn't have many aces because he was serving into Federer's body. Federer could get his racket on them, but couldn't return them well, and Roddick almost always won the point after that, but they still did not count as aces.

And remember that Roddick is a very poor service returner and Fed's serve is one of the best of course. Murray also outaced Roddick in semis.