Are you sure working out helps?

[chapufo1]

As the title says, are you guys sure working out and developing muscle helps? I for one don't like to brag or anything, but I'm 5'8 155lb and can bench 260, squat 330, 5% body fat etc and played football. I have been playing for about a year and a half now and I swear, all this muscle is not really helping me with my game. I don't think my strokes and technique is really all that bad but I really can't see how all this muscle of mine can help me. Actually, I think it slows me down alot. Furthermore, I use a LM prestige and I can't swing fast with it... People say that it's not all in the arm, but then whats the point of working out the upper body?

 

[HyperHorse]

Are you taking creatine?
what's your gym routine like??
are u doing any running/swimming/aerobic training???
Maybe you lost some flexibility... perhaps do some yoga?

 

[chapufo1]

I have never taken anything in my life nor will I ever. I do incorporate running into my workout routine every day with stretching excersies mostly in the legs once in a while.

 

[ramseszerg]

stretching must be done every day.

 

[ramseszerg]

Let me rephrase it a little for my sake.. does more muscle strength mean more racquet head speed?

 

[shindemac]

Can u be more specific on what? Serve? Forehand?

Since you just started playing, I would say it's most likely your technique. If you are talking about your serve, then it's a very complicated motion unless you are very athletic and have a good throwing motion.

 

[chapufo1]

In particular, it's the forehand. I have posted clips of my forehand before but they have been taken down. I'll take more recent clips and upload them in the next few days if you guys are willing to help. Thanks.

 

[MTChong]

I'm thinking you may have lost lots of flexibility doing that unless you trained that by stretching... Also, having too much muscle and being bulky doesn't help, either as it gets harder to move around.

 

[rasajadad]

Working out helps, of course. But tennis is not just a game of strength. It's just a part of it. Why do you think Justine Henin can generate power? Hitting a tennis ball hard is the result of a kinetic chain release that involves a lot of muscle groups. It's about speed. Working out (with weights) to develop speed is not the same as to develop mass / strength. Which I'm sure you know.

 

[AngeloDS]

Muscle is really only there to protect/strengthen your weaker ligaments in tennis (your knees & shoulders specifically, also your back). For the question above -- anyone can swing very hard & very fast but you know what happens to most who aren't fit for it. Thrown out shoulders, elbows being demolished and wrists and what-not. You can be "strong" but not muscular.

Though, your core does help in stability and other things. Strong forearm muscles are really needed in tennis heh. But once you strengthen up some of your muscles or add some muscle you'll notice a bit more pace/heavyness to your shots, more stability in your shots and having a much easier time when it comes to serve returns.

Being over flexible can be bad =p as it can cause some pretty bad injuries. So make sure you aren't being over flexible.

But the best results come from plyometrics. Explosive training, but it does a number on the joints & body =). That training translates into games allowing you to have a huge burst of power in certain areas (like sprinting).

 

[chroix]

Core strength is very important as is endurance. Too much bulk is not good. IMO swimming, light weights and cycling give great results.

 

[munk3y]

I remember your video. You are indeed quite a tank.
But from that video you didnt quite have a knee bend and shoulder rotation. You were standing perfectly upright if i recall.
You seemed to be just muscling the ball a bit, and from the looks of the swing it was really quick but the acceleration was probably wrongly timed.

 

[goober]

Your muscle is not holding you back unless you are extremely bulky which it doesn't sound like you are at 155 lbs. It is almost certainly your technique and maybe your flexibility. I would get your strokes checked out by a teaching pro.

 

[GuyClinch]

Watch some juniors..

If you get a chance watch some top juniors hit. they can smack the ball quite nicely and beat tons of people on this board. But they probably can't bench or squat nearly as much as a healthy full grown man.

Tennis is about skill and speed. Justine Henin is very thin. Andy Murray is postively scrawny. So no weightlifting isn't the key. It might be able to help some but it's way down the list of things to worry about.

Pete

 

[Roger_federer]

you definitely do not need to be muscular to play tennis. Tennis skills come from proper techniques not power.

 

[limitup]

I think broad generalizations one way or another is a pretty gray area, but one thing I'll say for sure is that all else being equal, the guy with strong forearms is going to be a better player than the guy with wimpy forearms. The same can be said for other muscles such as abs, shoulders, etc. Remember the key phrase though - all else being equal. If all else is not equal, an 85 lb 16 year old girl could easily demolish an athletic full grown male without even trying.

 

[GOOOOOGA]

I think a football player and a tennis player, athletically, are COMPLETELY different. Different sports, different muscles.

One of my friends started at weakside linebacker in the fall for varsity, and played 1 singles for varsity tennis at his school in spring. And one of the things he always said was he lacked flexibility, range of motion, and explosiveness in his legs and core. I saw him alot at the gym doing some triceps, shoulder, back, and abs stuff.

 

[GuyClinch]

I think broad generalizations one way or another is a pretty gray area, but one thing I'll say for sure is that all else being equal, the guy with strong forearms is going to be a better player than the guy with wimpy forearms. The same can be said for other muscles such as abs, shoulders, etc. Remember the key phrase though - all else being equal. If all else is not equal, an 85 lb 16 year old girl could easily demolish an athletic full grown male without even trying.

While it's largely academic I think you can be too muscle bound to play your tennis optimally. While being stronger doesn't impair your flexiblity or even your straight line speed I think it does impair your agility at some muscle bound level.

It's not coincidence that most tennis players tend to be built more like Leyton Hewitt then Ray Lewis. I think a good comparison for tennis is boxing. A boxer might be able to fight at several different weight classes but he will always tell you that at some weight class or another he feels "quickest."

That's the kind of fitness you want to have for tennis - like a boxer. You want to be quick and agile but with some degree of strength. Boxers in the lower weight classes don't need to lift weights and often can't bench 300+ pounds. They focus on exercises that build their functional strength for boxing - like punching a heavy bag. that's alot more analgous to tennis then a bench press.

Pete

 

[Marat Safinator]

Maybe your not good at tennis and thats that. Maybe your just like any other person and need to train to improve your game.

 

[emcee]

Maybe your not good at tennis and thats that. Maybe your just like any other person and need to train to improve your game.

He was asking "Does working out help?" I don't see how that warrants a jerk response.

 

[emcee]

I think a football player and a tennis player, athletically, are COMPLETELY different. Different sports, different muscles.

One of my friends started at weakside linebacker in the fall for varsity, and played 1 singles for varsity tennis at his school in spring. And one of the things he always said was he lacked flexibility, range of motion, and explosiveness in his legs and core. I saw him alot at the gym doing some triceps, shoulder, back, and abs stuff.

Hmm...does your friend play in a 4-3 or a 3-4 D? I would think that a OLB in a 3-4 would need a ton of explosiveness as they're usually the best in their team at pass rushing.

But yeah, a linebacker is not a great body type for a tennis player. Cornerback probably wouldn't be too bad...explosive speed, stop and start movements galore when the WR runs shifty routes, leaping ability = leg explosiveness, etc.

 

[GuyClinch]

Linebacker..

I remember a story about a linebacker a few years back who played College tennis (I don't remember if it was D.1). But anyway they interviewed the guy who said that he wasn't that good and would need to lose some weight to play better tennis, but he needed the muscle to play linebacker. I guess it was a story because his body type was so different then the average scrawny tennis player.

Pete

 

[TennsDog]

I know for a fact weight training and developing muscles does help. I am also sure that you need good technique for it to really help. If you have control problems, you are going to be holding back on your shots to keep them in anyway, so power isn't an issue.

Here's my story: I have a great serve, good power and spin. I didn't play much this fall/winter, but I did do cardio and weight training on my upper body about 4x/week the whole time. I never increased my weights and only increased my reps once. When I finally did hit the courts again, I didn't change anything. I just went out and started hitting. I got to hitting serves, and within the first three I realized they were harder than anything I had ever hit before, and with no added effort. Muscles aren't everything in tennis, but they will serve well those fit to use them.

 

[JCo872]

As the title says, are you guys sure working out and developing muscle helps? I for one don't like to brag or anything, but I'm 5'8 155lb and can bench 260, squat 330, 5% body fat etc and played football. I have been playing for about a year and a half now and I swear, all this muscle is not really helping me with my game. I don't think my strokes and technique is really all that bad but I really can't see how all this muscle of mine can help me. Actually, I think it slows me down alot. Furthermore, I use a LM prestige and I can't swing fast with it... People say that it's not all in the arm, but then whats the point of working out the upper body?

Chapufo1,

This is a great question you are asking. Unfortunately muscle strength isn't going to help you hit the ball harder at all. Power in tennis comes from technique. As someone mentioned Hardene absolutely kills her forehand, and she is a 5 foot 5' female. Hingis hits the ball harder than you can imagine and she's no giant.

I have sat in the first row of pro female matches, and those women are hitting the ball so freaking hard you can't believe it. They are using principles like leverage (out in front contact), body fully behind the ball. Drive and lift. Believe me, developing your technique is what will give you power.

I also sat in the front row and watched Coria hit the lights out of the ball, and he is a small skinny guy. He looks about 12 years old to me. But by maximizing techniqe it doesn't matter.

I'd love to see a clip of your forehand and I can give you some suggestions as to why you aren't hitting harder.

Jeff

 

[JCo872]

While it's largely academic I think you can be too muscle bound to play your tennis optimally. While being stronger doesn't impair your flexiblity or even your straight line speed I think it does impair your agility at some muscle bound level.

It's not coincidence that most tennis players tend to be built more like Leyton Hewitt then Ray Lewis. I think a good comparison for tennis is boxing. A boxer might be able to fight at several different weight classes but he will always tell you that at some weight class or another he feels "quickest."

That's the kind of fitness you want to have for tennis - like a boxer. You want to be quick and agile but with some degree of strength. Boxers in the lower weight classes don't need to lift weights and often can't bench 300+ pounds. They focus on exercises that build their functional strength for boxing - like punching a heavy bag. that's alot more analgous to tennis then a bench press.

Pete

Nice response. That's a great analogy.

 

[emcee]

Muscle DOES help! It's not nearly as important as technique, but it helps.

Working out your quads, for example, helps you get more leg power in your serve. Working your obliques will help you get more power in every shot. Sure Henin is small, but she's packed with muscle! Hingis is the same size, but she's not too muscular, and she can't hit very hard for a pro.

Why do pros spend so much time working out then? Just for off-center shots? Yeah, right. Muscle helps...but too much bulk is counterproductive, and technique is the most important of all.

 

[Mikael]

Anyone needs a strong, solid base to play well and unless you're a freak you're gonna have to do some squats and work your abs and lower back to develop that base optimally. Besides, tennis players past a certain level need muscle in their shoulders to protect themselves against injuries - same thing for knees, hips, etc.

Bottom line is, no, biceps curls won't help your game, nor will weighing 200+ lbs of muscle... However, squats, deadlifts, presses, sit-ups, pull-ups, jump squats and other exercises for functional strength and power? Of course.

 

[JCo872]

Anyone needs a strong, solid base to play well and unless you're a freak you're gonna have to do some squats and work your abs and lower back to develop that base optimally. Besides, tennis players past a certain level need muscle in their shoulders to protect themselves against injuries - same thing for knees, hips, etc.

Bottom line is, no, biceps curls won't help your game, nor will weighing 200+ lbs of muscle... However, squats, deadlifts, presses, sit-ups, pull-ups, jump squats and other exercises for functional strength and power? Of course.

Agreed completely. It's just that in the poster's case, I would work on maximizing my technique. He clearly has all the muscle and fitness anyone could possibly need to be a good tennis player. He needs to focus on how he is hitting the ball, not on increaing his bench press 20 more pounds.

 

[ironchef21]

Agree with the previous posters. Working out has helped my game. I think you have to tailor your workout to your specific sport - in the case of tennis you want to strengthen your core and work on flexibility and strength without adding too much bulk.

 

[Tim Tennis]

Might is Right

Agree with the previous posters. Working out has helped my game. I think you have to tailor your workout to your specific sport - in the case of tennis you want to strengthen your core and work on flexibility and strength without adding too much bulk.

I agree, good post.

It does not matter how strong you are, how flexible you are, how fast you are, without the skill level, hand eye coordination and proper mechanics you will not be good at tennis. In answer to your question I think that working out can greatly improve your tennis game. It just has to be tailored for tennis if you are really serious. If you develop too much upper body mass it just puts a strain on the core muscles as you generate rotational energy just trying to bring that big upper body around. It will slow you down. Yikes! Upper body strength is great but it has to be tennis specific. Someone said you should not do biceps curls. I disagree with that. They balance out the triceps and are important in stabilizing the arm and greatly assist in generating topspin. What is that guys name, Nadal? No you don't need 16 inch arms but they do need to be pretty darn strong.

In summary, if technic was all that matters you would not need separate tours for the men and women. It would kind of be like darts. Sorry English guys, had to say that. LOL

 

[Mikael]

Agreed completely. It's just that in the poster's case, I would work on maximizing my technique. He clearly has all the muscle and fitness anyone could possibly need to be a good tennis player. He needs to focus on how he is hitting the ball, not on increaing his bench press 20 more pounds.

Yeah, certainly, if he's a beginner, technique is far more important. As fas as his fitness goes, he seems to be very strong, like a powerlifter. But maybe his power/explosiveness are lacking? Anyway, as you said, it's all totally irrelevant if he's a beginner.

 

[chapufo1]

Chapufo1,

This is a great question you are asking. Unfortunately muscle strength isn't going to help you hit the ball harder at all. Power in tennis comes from technique. As someone mentioned Hardene absolutely kills her forehand, and she is a 5 foot 5' female. Hingis hits the ball harder than you can imagine and she's no giant.

I have sat in the first row of pro female matches, and those women are hitting the ball so freaking hard you can't believe it. They are using principles like leverage (out in front contact), body fully behind the ball. Drive and lift. Believe me, developing your technique is what will give you power.

I also sat in the front row and watched Coria hit the lights out of the ball, and he is a small skinny guy. He looks about 12 years old to me. But by maximizing techniqe it doesn't matter.

I'd love to see a clip of your forehand and I can give you some suggestions as to why you aren't hitting harder.

Jeff

Thanks Jco872 and everyone else for their input. Fortunately, I was able to play next to and watch a college tennis player who seemed to be very good today. I asked him exactly what he thought was wrong with my forehand and he said that I was standing straight up and not relaxed. He told me that I looked like I muscled the ball alot. So, after taking his advice, I took some clips and they're uploaded here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbPL9H36TWQ

Sorry about some of the quality and talking, I had my little brother film me. Maybe now I understand what it means to be using other muscles then just your arm.

Joon

 

[shindemac]

Look at what happens to your footwork and the width of your stance. Your feet look closer than shoulder width, so you don't have a strong base -> you won't have good balance -> you can't generate power. There are other things, but for now work on your footwork and try to position yourself in a wider stance with your knees more bent.

Look at your first forehand. Your feet are too close, and your weight is on your backfoot. Your front foot is off the ground.

 

[emcee]

Yeah I agree with what shindemac. You have some shoulder turn but you're not nearly maximizing your potential power. You didn't sink down for that low ball...you just sliced it.

But your shots look pretty good overall!

 

[shindemac]

Ok, I was just imitating your stance in my room and it is ridiculously close together and hinders bending the knee. It looks like they are only a foot apart or so. Mine are at least 2 feet apart, so that gives you an idea of how much you should widen it by depending on your stature. Also, notice how much more comfortable it is to bend your knees in this wider stance and maintain good balance.

 

[JCo872]

Thanks Jco872 and everyone else for their input. Fortunately, I was able to play next to and watch a college tennis player who seemed to be very good today. I asked him exactly what he thought was wrong with my forehand and he said that I was standing straight up and not relaxed. He told me that I looked like I muscled the ball alot. So, after taking his advice, I took some clips and they're uploaded here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbPL9H36TWQ

Sorry about some of the quality and talking, I had my little brother film me. Maybe now I understand what it means to be using other muscles then just your arm.

Joon

Awesome. I'll take a look. Also check out this thread that is going on. It's about the same topic! I posted a clip there of my girlfriend hitting a forehand. She was a top college player and hits so hard it's scary:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=109343

 

[JCo872]

Thanks Jco872 and everyone else for their input. Fortunately, I was able to play next to and watch a college tennis player who seemed to be very good today. I asked him exactly what he thought was wrong with my forehand and he said that I was standing straight up and not relaxed. He told me that I looked like I muscled the ball alot. So, after taking his advice, I took some clips and they're uploaded here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbPL9H36TWQ

Sorry about some of the quality and talking, I had my little brother film me. Maybe now I understand what it means to be using other muscles then just your arm.

Joon

OK I just took a look. I love your backhand. You get great drive and extension through the ball. Looks almost like Safin. The forehand is too much swinging and not enough drive like on your backhand, but you have a good foundation and excellent balance. I agree with the previous poster about your feet being too close together.

If you can get me better quality clip I can do a frame by frame comparison to a pro if you'd like and we can see how you can get cleaner contact on the forehand and better extension through the ball.

 

[Swissv2]

to answer your question: yes working out can *help* your tennis. It helps having a strong serve, ability to handle hard hits, etc.

But strength is just an "benefit" in the case of tennis. Many tour guys work out to gain strength in their trunk area, upper body strength, arms, and legs. But workouts are modified to maintain flexibility, and not to workout with a focus on gaining muscle but rather strength.

Saw your video. When you do your forehand, your left foot raises off the ground. See it? You have the correct idea of loading the weight on the back foot on the racquet take-back, but try to keep both feet planted on the ground at contact and transfer your weight to your left foot on the follow through.

hope this helps.

 

[JCo872]

Saw your video. When you do your forehand, your left foot raises off the ground. See it? You have the correct idea of loading the weight on the back foot on the racquet take-back, but try to keep both feet planted on the ground at contact and transfer your weight to your left foot on the follow through

Good observation!!

 

[chapufo1]

to answer your question: yes working out can *help* your tennis. It helps having a strong serve, ability to handle hard hits, etc.

But strength is just an "benefit" in the case of tennis. Many tour guys work out to gain strength in their trunk area, upper body strength, arms, and legs. But workouts are modified to maintain flexibility, and not to workout with a focus on gaining muscle but rather strength.

Saw your video. When you do your forehand, your left foot raises off the ground. See it? You have the correct idea of loading the weight on the back foot on the racquet take-back, but try to keep both feet planted on the ground at contact and transfer your weight to your left foot on the follow through.

hope this helps.

I see, from what all the posters said, to sum it up I need:

1. A wider base for better balance and comfortability
2. More knee bend
3. Weight transfer from back to front foot.

Should all these things be apparent in every forehand? Also, does weight transfer mean like, stepping into the shot or something? Thanks for the great posts, god you guys are great.

 

[emcee]

I see, from what all the posters said, to sum it up I need:

1. A wider base for better balance and comfortability
2. More knee bend
3. Weight transfer from back to front foot.

Should all these things be apparent in every forehand? Also, does weight transfer mean like, stepping into the shot or something? Thanks for the great posts, god you guys are great.

You step into the shot if you hit with a closed stance. I hit with an open stance, so I don't step into the shot really...power comes instead from leg action and just the general uncoiling of the body.

I notice that I only hit with a closed stance if I'm trying to hit an approach shot...it makes coming to net after it easier.

Check this out for how an open stance forehand should ideally look like...

http://www.uspta.com/html/e-lesson-Open stance forehand 2.swf

 

[shindemac]

Lol, i already mentioned his front foot lifting off the ground. That's why I think his balance is no good.