ATP take back for rally balls, WTA take back for no-pace floaters?

[torpantennis]

I struggle a lot in consistently pounding the weak no-pace floaters away. I am much better relatively in handling the heavier rally balls. I try to use an ATP style take back, i.e racquet tip pointing forwards before the forward swing. It feels like this ATP take back is good in generating topspin, and in handling pace of the incoming ball. But I struggle a lot in timing the swing properly on no-pace floaters. I think it's because the racquet makes the lag, and then swings forward only after the lag.

Now I got this idea: Why not put the racquet in the lagging position, behind the back, even before starting the forward swing on those weak floaters? Doing it that way should make the timing of the stroke much more straight forward. Also, generating the pace on the no-pace floaters should be much easier with this WTA style take back. Any reasons why I should NOT consider two different take backs, ATP style for normal rally balls and WTA style for weak floaters?

 

[Bendex]

I struggle a lot in consistently pounding the weak no-pace floaters away. I am much better relatively in handling the heavier rally balls. I try to use an ATP style take back, i.e racquet tip pointing forwards before the forward swing. It feels like this ATP take back is good in generating topspin, and in handling pace of the incoming ball. But I struggle a lot in timing the swing properly on no-pace floaters. I think it's because the racquet makes the lag, and then swings forward only after the lag.

Now I got this idea: Why not put the racquet in the lagging position, behind the back, even before starting the forward swing on those weak floaters? Doing it that way should make the timing of the stroke much more straight forward. Also, generating the pace on the no-pace floaters should be much easier with this WTA style take back. Any reasons why I should NOT consider two different take backs, ATP style for normal rally balls and WTA style for weak floaters?

Think about your intentions for the ball, not your take back. I honestly have no idea what I'm doing with my take back in any given situation.

 

[Ballinbob]

For floaters I use an ATP-ish take back. Just know where you want to hit the ball, make space, and rip it. Works for me

 

[movdqa]

It took me a while to learn the ATP-style and it was easier to make it a part of me if I used it all the time.

If you want to get the timing down on floaters, practice more against them. If you can not generate enough power on floaters with the ATP, then I'd get a more powerful racquet - but I guess going WTA is an option. The full backswing certainly worked for Soderling.

 

[oble]

No.. The take back doesn't matter. If you're mistiming your stroke when spanking floaters, it's usually footwork. Keep your feet busy, do multiple small adjustment steps when waiting and closing up on your expected contact with the floater.

Planting and loading your legs while waiting for the floater to bounce and drift to you is usually the number one recipe for mistiming the floaters, in my experience. I think it's a combination of failing to properly adjust to the trajectory once you have firmly planted your feet and loaded your stance, and losing the rhythm of your stroke while waiting.

 

[torpantennis]

I think my struggles with ATP might be related to a too extreme low to high swingpath. As the racquet drops from above the hand into the slot, it feels like I "have to" swing the racquet upwards to fight against that drop. If the racquet were put into the lagging position before the forward swing (WTA), it would feel much more natural to swing the racquet with the flatter swingpath (as required on floaters).

I think that I'm not actively "patting the dog". What I rather do is just let loose and start the forward swing with the racquet above hand and the tip of the racquet pointing slightly forwards. Should you ACTIVELY pat the dog, before start of the forward swing?

 

[oldschoolrules]

The complexity of your take back, in my opinion, should be related to the time you have to set up for the shot. If you are on the move, the less fussy your stroke the better. I don't know if you should label the more direct take back stroke as WTA or not but turning your shoulders and immediately positioning the racquet head behind the path of the ball (relatively) without a loop and with the wrist slightly set back is what many higher level players do in these types of situations. I do think actively "patting-the-dog" helps but only if your grip normally puts the racquet face in that position anyway.

 

[dman72]

If you are thinking about your take back during your match, you are taking the wrong approach. Unless you can somehow have multiple take backs become second nature, it's putting to much thinking into the wrong part of the game.

 

[mightyrick]

I struggle a lot in consistently pounding the weak no-pace floaters away. I am much better relatively in handling the heavier rally balls. I try to use an ATP style take back, i.e racquet tip pointing forwards before the forward swing. It feels like this ATP take back is good in generating topspin, and in handling pace of the incoming ball. But I struggle a lot in timing the swing properly on no-pace floaters. I think it's because the racquet makes the lag, and then swings forward only after the lag.

Now I got this idea: Why not put the racquet in the lagging position, behind the back, even before starting the forward swing on those weak floaters? Doing it that way should make the timing of the stroke much more straight forward. Also, generating the pace on the no-pace floaters should be much easier with this WTA style take back. Any reasons why I should NOT consider two different take backs, ATP style for normal rally balls and WTA style for weak floaters?

Agree with others that it might be a little bit of over-thinking it.

When I get sitters, my mindset is that I am not going to try to hit a winner. Rather, I'm just going to try to hit the ball away from my opponent. I fully expect the ball may come back and I have to hit another one -- especially against good opponents.

I noticed you used the word "pounding" in your description. You may want to rethink your approach. Just focus on good placement and focus on spin (to keep the ball safe). Many times, the best shot off of a sitter is to take an easy stroke where you get a good low-to-high swing and put decent topspin on the ball... and "place" it right at the service line near the sideline. You can't do that if you "pound" the ball.

Don't think "winner". Think "put it where they ain't". Or "put it where it is most difficult for them to get to".

 

[5263]

I struggle a lot in consistently pounding the weak no-pace floaters away. I am much better relatively in handling the heavier rally balls. I try to use an ATP style take back, i.e racquet tip pointing forwards before the forward swing. It feels like this ATP take back is good in generating topspin, and in handling pace of the incoming ball. But I struggle a lot in timing the swing properly on no-pace floaters. I think it's because the racquet makes the lag, and then swings forward only after the lag.

Now I got this idea: Why not put the racquet in the lagging position, behind the back, even before starting the forward swing on those weak floaters? Doing it that way should make the timing of the stroke much more straight forward. Also, generating the pace on the no-pace floaters should be much easier with this WTA style take back. Any reasons why I should NOT consider two different take backs, ATP style for normal rally balls and WTA style for weak floaters?

Imo you have noticed something that I've seen many pros do in matches. I see them use bigger shoulder turn and often from a semi open stance that is barely open on shots that are coming real slow and easy like a sitter. From that stance and with the pronounced shoulder turn, the stoke will take on many of the WTA attributes. Imo where you see the more pure ATP Fh with the men is when the pace is strong and the ball is taken on the rise or near the top of the bounce.

 

[spun_out]

I struggle a lot in consistently pounding the weak no-pace floaters away. I am much better relatively in handling the heavier rally balls. I try to use an ATP style take back, i.e racquet tip pointing forwards before the forward swing. It feels like this ATP take back is good in generating topspin, and in handling pace of the incoming ball. But I struggle a lot in timing the swing properly on no-pace floaters. I think it's because the racquet makes the lag, and then swings forward only after the lag.

Now I got this idea: Why not put the racquet in the lagging position, behind the back, even before starting the forward swing on those weak floaters? Doing it that way should make the timing of the stroke much more straight forward. Also, generating the pace on the no-pace floaters should be much easier with this WTA style take back. Any reasons why I should NOT consider two different take backs, ATP style for normal rally balls and WTA style for weak floaters?

This is actually an issue that I have been struggling with for the last 5 years. The forehand is much better with lower balls, but my ability to really smack balls shoulder height and above with flat/side spin has greatly diminished. Couple of thoughts on this:

1) Most rec players don't have an ATP forehand like the way you describe so you have to take people's advice with a grain of salt.
2) Not many pros have the takeback you describe either, especially the way that some coach explained on a recent thread here on racquet lag. Most players will have the racquet to 4 or 5 o'clock instead of 3 as described in the video.
3) Don't think of the 3 o'clock position as the desired effect. I think of it as a way to get the racquet flip or the tendon bounce (when the racquet violently goes from pronated to supinated to forward motion). This may mean that it is better to have the racquet pointed closer to 6 o'clock as long as you get this tendon bounce. The ability to achieve the tendon bounce with less extreme racquet head position prior to forward movement may be related to loose arm/wrist and violence torso/hip turn.
4) What may help is to not pronate into the takeback (keep a neutral wrist orientation in terms of pronated/supinated) even with the wrist laid back a bit. And then pronate when you lower the arm. This way, you won't have a pronated takeback for high balls but will for lower balls where you have to move the hand below shoulder height. This is not easy for me, unfortunately, but it may work for you.

 

[oble]

I think my struggles with ATP might be related to a too extreme low to high swingpath. As the racquet drops from above the hand into the slot, it feels like I "have to" swing the racquet upwards to fight against that drop. If the racquet were put into the lagging position before the forward swing (WTA), it would feel much more natural to swing the racquet with the flatter swingpath (as required on floaters).

I think that I'm not actively "patting the dog". What I rather do is just let loose and start the forward swing with the racquet above hand and the tip of the racquet pointing slightly forwards. Should you ACTIVELY pat the dog, before start of the forward swing?

Set your racquet higher if you're pounding the floater anywhere from chest high and above. You also shouldn't be dropping the racquet all the way down to hip height (or lower) with the racquet face facing flat at the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8KYbHM4_tw

 

[torpantennis]

Set your racquet higher if you're pounding the floater anywhere from chest high and above. You also shouldn't be dropping the racquet all the way down to hip height (or lower) with the racquet face facing flat at the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8KYbHM4_tw

I think this is the best advice! I'll definitely try this when I get on the next practice session. I think I should take some video of it also, see it in real time, and then try to improve. Do you think I could work this on my own, by simply throwing the balls up in the air and then pounding them? Would it be similar enough to the floaters you see in matches?

 

[oble]

I've never tried drop feeding or toss feeding myself floaters to practise with, but I suppose you can either toss it straight up so that it bounces between chest and head height, or maybe toss it slightly forwards but give it some "topspin" towards you so that it will move slightly in your direction after bouncing to simulate a weak incoming ball.