tennistiger
Professional
I had one of the personal frames in my hand many years ago, it had no silver painted markings, Barcode, etc. Only small writing Made in Austria by Head.
Becker world champion racket
- Thread starter teachingprotx
- Start date
Thanks, yes I do recall the made in Austria part.
teachingprotx
Legend
59 RA
Thanks! Will get RDC measurements shortly.
Right now (based on stringway SW calculator) the est SW is 345 +/- 5
Dino Lagaffe
Hall of Fame
I measured mine the other day, and this is what I got:
Boris Becker Worldchampion
(Just overgrip)
Weight: 333 g/11.75 oz
RA: 59
SW: 317
Balance: 31.75 cm
Skickat från min SM-A505FN via Tapatalk
I saw the grommets on his frame are like the puma super (uniform holes). Do you recall if that's the case? The world champion grommets are similar to the estusa power beam/ power beam braided oddly enough.
tennistiger
Professional
Yes, same grommets Puma Style as the World Champion Racket. But in his personal Racket all grommets are boozed like Puma. In the retail only the double holes.
PBODY99
Legend
Interview Günther Bosch Coach Boris Becker Puma G Vilas | The Berlin Tennis Gallery
English subtitles
Explains why the frame had problems
English subtitles
Explains why the frame had problems
NicoMK
Hall of Fame
Fantastic. Wish I could handle one.
tennistiger
Professional
The Puma Problem was the PCS of the Super, the different Winner system was okay. Later many Pumas got the complete grip of the Adam rackets, G. Adam made rackets with an own brand in the early 90s which had an development of the PCS.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Do you have any photos of the Adam rackets?
LeoFulgencio
Rookie
tennistiger
Professional
Photos and Tests but I can not upload Pictures here, ask TW why, i don't know.
Sanglier
Professional
Don't want to derail this thread, but here are my two Adams. The one on the left appears to be a prototype that never went into production, which incorporates several interesting and unique ideas in addition to the PCS grip. I got it last year from our friend Hans ("vintagetennisgems" on evil bay), who told me its previous owner thought it was a "disposable" frame because it looked flimsily made. As a matter of fact, it plays like butter (in a good way), but I am not sure how resistant it would be to abuse given its unusual beam structure.
The prototype weighs 352g strung and has a full inch adjustment range (from 26.1" to 27.2"), which shifts the balance from 1.26 Pt HL to 0.63 Pt HL, changing the swing weight from 335 to 368. The production "Integrale" on the right weighs 358g strung and can be extended from 26.5" to 27.2", producing a balance of 6.9 Pt HL and 5.0 Pt HL, respectively, with corresponding swing weights of 319 and 348. Due to the fact that it has a telescopic handle that loses some overlap between the internal elements when extended, there is a slight increase in flex from the shortest to the longest setting, when measured using the RA method, from 68 to 67.
The prototype weighs 352g strung and has a full inch adjustment range (from 26.1" to 27.2"), which shifts the balance from 1.26 Pt HL to 0.63 Pt HL, changing the swing weight from 335 to 368. The production "Integrale" on the right weighs 358g strung and can be extended from 26.5" to 27.2", producing a balance of 6.9 Pt HL and 5.0 Pt HL, respectively, with corresponding swing weights of 319 and 348. Due to the fact that it has a telescopic handle that loses some overlap between the internal elements when extended, there is a slight increase in flex from the shortest to the longest setting, when measured using the RA method, from 68 to 67.
LeoFulgencio
Rookie
Sanglier
Professional
My experience has been that frame weights printed on racquets and given in magazine descriptions are usually of the "unstrung" kind. The string bed on an average modern racquet typically weighs about 18g (I have found that strung balance and swing weight can be reliably measured on an unstrung frame by taping two 9g steel bolts to the hoop at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions). The 358g I obtained from my Integrale happens to be exactly 18g more than the 340g given in the German magazine table.
As for flex, my RA readings are derived from kg/cm values obtained using a StringLab, discussed in several older threads here. I have found the method to be reliable and repeatable over many hundreds of measurements. The difference between 67/68 RA and 71 RA is quite significant. Either my Integrale had developed some integrity issues from wear, or there were some rather large variances among these frames, especially if the 340g German unit really was strung.
As for flex, my RA readings are derived from kg/cm values obtained using a StringLab, discussed in several older threads here. I have found the method to be reliable and repeatable over many hundreds of measurements. The difference between 67/68 RA and 71 RA is quite significant. Either my Integrale had developed some integrity issues from wear, or there were some rather large variances among these frames, especially if the 340g German unit really was strung.
LeoFulgencio
Rookie
The test says strung weight. Maybe it's wrong data, or the racket was made in different weights.
Would you or anyone know by any chance what RA rating the Mizuno Lendl Type-S had?
I think I read you had the Type-R which is softer @ RA59 as you mentioned.
Im hitting with the Type-S atm and hitting better than ever just a bit hard for maneuver on lower volleys
and wondering if there is a BB woldchampion style frame with a little less static weight and a tad stiffer?
Im enjoying hitting with 90-92 inch frames and finding I can hit with more confidence on groundies and serves
I have 3 of them, customized for me by Uli Kuehnel, Boris's racquet technician for all of his career. I also pestered him for all the possible details as I was getting tired of reading oppinions here .. here is one of them being strung by Uli on is famous machine (it is a 60 euro string job IPDX style)
Perfectly matched at 347g strung
33.1 mm balance point
Extended to 69cm
Strung with a multifilament produced by Toalson for IPDXperience
2 ProsPro tacky overgrips (closest to what Boris used wich was a tacky overgrip roduced by Toalson Japan for IPDS), one no overlap one overlap directly the pallets
slightly shaved or polished edges on the handle for a more round and comfortable grip
Strung at 40 dynamic tension units (too much to explain here but each string is prestreched and tensioned according to the machine algorithm for this particular frame proportionally to it's length directoon and many other variables
It is a fascinating science to say the least
They do play great
As a side note, they feelmuch stiffer than what is supposed to feel
Perfectly matched at 347g strung
33.1 mm balance point
Extended to 69cm
Strung with a multifilament produced by Toalson for IPDXperience
2 ProsPro tacky overgrips (closest to what Boris used wich was a tacky overgrip roduced by Toalson Japan for IPDS), one no overlap one overlap directly the pallets
slightly shaved or polished edges on the handle for a more round and comfortable grip
Strung at 40 dynamic tension units (too much to explain here but each string is prestreched and tensioned according to the machine algorithm for this particular frame proportionally to it's length directoon and many other variables
It is a fascinating science to say the least
They do play great
As a side note, they feelmuch stiffer than what is supposed to feel
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vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Nice! I have one too they’re great sticks. Made in Austria by HEADI have 3 of them, customized for me by Uli Kuehnel, Boris's racquet technician for all of his career. I also pestered him for all the possible details as I was getting tired of reading oppinions here .. here is one of them being strung by Uli on is famous machine (it is a 60 euro string job IPDX style)
Perfectly matched at 347g strung
33.1 mm balance point
Extended to 69cm
Strung with a multifilament produced by Toalson for IPDXperience
2 ProsPro tacky overgrips (closest to what Boris used wich was a tacky overgrip roduced by Toalson Japan for IPDS), one no overlap one overlap directly the pallets
slightly shaved or polished edges on the handle for a more round and comfortable grip
Strung at 40 dynamic tension units (too much to explain here but each string is prestreched and tensioned according to the machine algorithm for this particular frame proportionally to it's length directoon and many other variables
It is a fascinating science to say the least
They do play great
As a side note, they feelmuch stiffer than what is supposed to feel
teachingprotx
Legend
Whoa ! Now this is COOL! And wicked fascinating!!
I feel the same way. I spent a few months trying to figure out what Boris actually played with, but the plethora of oppinions makes it all very confusing. Who better to sort it out than the guy who actually designed the frame? By the way... Boris's frames and strings and even gromets were all custom made. Even the ovegrips (although the people who bought the boxed initial offering of 3100 frames did get an overgrip made by Toalson for IPDS). I spent quite a bit of time pestering Uli with tehnical details until I found out every single detail about Boris, the behind the scenes stuff, actual facts, etc. I should make a thread about this whole experience maybe it will help others like me who wanted the details.
galain
Hall of Fame
Please do! I'm sure we'd all love to read more about this.
NicoMK
Hall of Fame
Absolutely beautiful. I will always love these unique rackets.I have 3 of them, customized for me by Uli Kuehnel, Boris's racquet technician for all of his career. I also pestered him for all the possible details as I was getting tired of reading oppinions here .. here is one of them being strung by Uli on is famous machine (it is a 60 euro string job IPDX style)
Perfectly matched at 347g strung
33.1 mm balance point
Extended to 69cm
Strung with a multifilament produced by Toalson for IPDXperience
2 ProsPro tacky overgrips (closest to what Boris used wich was a tacky overgrip roduced by Toalson Japan for IPDS), one no overlap one overlap directly the pallets
slightly shaved or polished edges on the handle for a more round and comfortable grip
Strung at 40 dynamic tension units (too much to explain here but each string is prestreched and tensioned according to the machine algorithm for this particular frame proportionally to it's length directoon and many other variables
It is a fascinating science to say the least
They do play great
As a side note, they feelmuch stiffer than what is supposed to feel
teachingprotx
Legend
This frame shape and the Volkl tr 25 are the sexiest frame shape ever created by human hands .
Period
Period
teachingprotx
Legend
Would love to see Uli’s string machine and the contraption it’s sitting on? Is the tensioner a separate piece under a table ?
I have 3 brans new ones. I wanted to use them and when I got them I realized they were 1 inch shorter than a regular frame and extending them is a pain and now they just sit there. All the Puma frames for those players who used them cane with solid handles and regular length
It is a unique machine with the computer that calculates the proper tension for each string accorsing to a mathematical algorithm that creates a string bed with uniforn tension. IPDS or nowadays IPDX
The original machine he strung all Boris's racquets with s foe sale by someone for 25k
The new version is also for sale but. Ot sure about the price
galain
Hall of Fame
That's really interesting. I'm surprised a relatively small racquet manufacturer like Puma would go to the trouble of making a professional and a retail version of their frames. The extendable handle was obviously a marketing gimmick then.
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
Yeah, all the PCS rackets I've seen are left at the minimum 26.75 inch long setting. Presumably because you have to take of the leather grip to extend them, and leathers don't usually wrap properly the second time.
tennistiger
Professional
Puma did not produce the rackets itself. The Super for example came from three different producers over the time. And to make a foam handle instead of putting a PCS grip on is no problem.
tennistiger
Professional
What you mean is the 3 step adjustable PCS. The retail Super had the white full adjustable PCS at which the grip must not be removed.
He means the winner with the 2 plastic hexagons inside
tennistiger
Professional
Yes what I said, it was called three step PCS because you can use it without, with one or with two plastics.
teachingprotx
Legend
Does anybody speak German and can translate? No English subtitles here
Sanglier
Professional
I know Retro is fluent in German and other nordic languages, but if he is indisposed at the moment, you could help yourself by clicking on the "CC" button below the video to turn on the subtitle, which is available in English (there is even an "auto-translate" feature in the settings that you can switch on, in case the original video had no English subtitle):
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teachingprotx
Legend
Dude !! Thank you kind sir for this info !! Game changer I super appreciate you sir !I know Retro is fluent in German and other nordic languages, but if he is indisposed at the moment, you could help yourself by clicking on the "CC" button below the video to turn on the subtitle, which is available in English (there is even an "auto-translate" feature in the settings that you can switch on, in case the original video had no English subtitle):
Ps. I’ve enjoined your posts for many years
@Sanglier
michael valek
Hall of Fame
I never owned a super on which the grip system worked properly or wasn’t broken . Only the Becker wc rackets were good.
teachingprotx
Legend
Dude . So true . All mine at one point or another started slipping.
I’m sure super glue / epoxy .
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
It's probably mentioned elsewhere, but I thought it was interesting that in the Berlin Tennis Gallery video Gunter Bosch said that of the first 200,000 units of the Vilas racket, about half were returned to Puma because of rattling in the handle area! He also said that Becker's racket was completely different from the retail version (implying different layup), and the rattling in his Vilas was stopped by injecting silicone into the handle. This meant the Vilas / Winner could no longer be marketed with the PCS function mentioned (presumably under German advertising law).
NicoMK
Hall of Fame
I didn't know, thanks for the info. Who made the rackets for Puma then?
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
That’s because the Becker WC were made by HEAD in Austria
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
For sure one of them was Lo Kunnan
tennistiger
Professional
1987 series at Sanhosun (factory of Estusa owner Jackson Tse)
teachingprotx
Legend
I thought I knew almost all there was to know about puma / estusa frames , until I met @tennistiger . I’m telling y’all this man has the deepest insights with factual literature to back up 100% .
It’s unreal like a human internet machine all on his own .
proud to say that for him and proud to be his friend . What a wonderful treasure and resource he is for us .
It’s unreal like a human internet machine all on his own .
proud to say that for him and proud to be his friend . What a wonderful treasure and resource he is for us .
proracketeer
Professional
Back in the day he ones tried a Head...
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
The thing about the Puma was it was a proper weight, at least 375g strung. Today, there is nothing near that except the RF97 and RAFO.
