Brace yourself. The big 4 shall be the top 4 in the rankings yet again.

[tennis_pro]

With Federer's withdrawal Nadal avoids both Djokovic and Murray until the SF at least. Since the odds of him being upset by anyone else are slim to none he should gain 360 points on Wawrinka whose chances of defending the FO are even smaller we're going to see the big 4 rightfully in the top 4 of the rankings. Probably for the last time until Federer drops.

Just sayin.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

One last time for the good ol' times?

 

[Chadillac]

There is a big 1, not a big 4

 

[tennis_pro]

There is a big 1, not a big 4

And that isn't Djokovic, he couldn't even outpeform Murray on clay this year LUL.

 

[Emperor of Belgrade]

They will be in top 4 once again, but overall results and performance wise it won't be the way like it was very nicely split in 2012. As Chadillac said, it's more of a big 1 now than big 4.

 

[Chadillac]

And that isn't Djokovic, he couldn't even outpeform Murray on clay this year LUL.

Djok = 16150 atp points

Murray = 8435 atp points

Pick any two of your so called big four, combine their numbers, djok still has more.

 

[cockneyDjoker]

No big 4. Just a big 1 now. Federer will be luck to end the year in the top 10 the rate he's declined.

 

[tennisaddict]

No big 4. Just a big 1 now. Federer will be luck to end the year in the top 10 the rate he's declined.

You keep making conflicting posts all the time. You say this is an extremely strong era and at the same time say that there is just big 1. You say Fed is at his peak last 3 slams and say he is declining.

Which is it really ?

 

[cockneyDjoker]

You keep making conflicting posts all the time. You say this is an extremely strong era and at the same time say that there is just big 1. You say Fed is at his peak last 3 slams and say he is declining.

Which is it really ?

It is a strong era. Nadal and Murray are still playing well and are still nowhere near the level of Djokovic. The way Djokovic is playing he would be no1 in any era and that's a fact.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

By the end of next season when the logjam at the top has been broken, there is going to be opportunity aplenty for breakthrough wins on the big stages. Power vacuum, and I'm not sure about what kind of quality will fill the void. Think Zverev's up to like #40 now... would be cool if he could hover at the periphery, and then blitzkrieg his way to the top a la Fed. Kyrgios is around #20 now. He might be poised to jump in there.

EDIT: Thiem. Okay, what if '17 year-end rankings look like this:

1. ???
2. Djok
3. Nishikori
4. Murray
5. Thiem
6. Kyrgios
7. Goffin
8. Stan
9. Dolgo
10. Berdych

 

[The Green Mile]

Great.....

 

[reaper]

It is a strong era. Nadal and Murray are still playing well and are still nowhere near the level of Djokovic. The way Djokovic is playing he would be no1 in any era and that's a fact.

It's actually an opinion.....

 

[Goosehead]

zverev, thiem, nishikori, nick k.

likely players to finally bust open for good the big 4 that's been together mostly since august/sept 2008.

 

[tennisaddict]

It is a strong era. Nadal and Murray are still playing well and are still nowhere near the level of Djokovic. The way Djokovic is playing he would be no1 in any era and that's a fact.

Yet , he loses to a 33 year old 2-4 in 2014 and loses 3 more times to a 34 year old ?

I am not aware of any other GOAT's having such bad record in open era against old players.

 

[mattosgrant]

After Wimbledon or after Cincinnati I would guess Wawrinka being above Federer again, so the informal big 4 as the top 4 will be brief. If Wawrinka defends his RG title it might not happen at all.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

The "Big 4" concept should be done away with, whenever 3 were playing their best, one wasn't. It's always been the case - first Nadal in 2012, then Federer in 2013, Murray in 2013-2014, Federer this year, ect..

 

[mattosgrant]

The "Big 4" concept should be done away with, whenever 3 were playing their best, one wasn't. It's always been the case - first Nadal in 2012, then Federer in 2013, Murray in 2013-2014, Federer this year, ect..

The big 4 era was 2008-2012 really. 2012 was the last true big 4 year with each winning a slam, fitting. Nadal wasnt really "not playing well", he just missed almost half the year injured. He had arguably his best clay season ever, and was unlucky to not win the Australian Open and end the year as the only guy with 2 slams. Since 2013 there has been no big 4, there is atleast 1 who clearly isnt even a top 4 player in each year, and Wawrinka has been one of the best in that period too.

 

[cockneyDjoker]

Yet , he loses to a 33 year old 2-4 in 2014 and loses 3 more times to a 34 year old ?

I am not aware of any other GOAT's having such bad record in open era against old players.

Nole always wins when it matters though. Do you remember what happened the last 4 times they played in a slam or do I need to remind you.

 

[mattosgrant]

Yet , he loses to a 33 year old 2-4 in 2014 and loses 3 more times to a 34 year old ?

I am not aware of any other GOAT's having such bad record in open era against old players.

Prime Steffi Graf actually had a losing record to 34-36 year old Navratilova, including losing their lone slam meeting in that period at the U.S Open. Yet I see you trumpet her as the female GOAT in many threads.

If head to heads were a large determining factor of GOAT than Federer could never be the GOAT with his record vs Nadal and peak Fed (2004-2006) going 3-6 vs 17-20 year old Nadal.

 

[Chadillac]

Prime Steffi Graf actually had a losing record to 34-36 year old Navratilova, including losing their lone slam meeting in that period at the U.S Open. Yet I see you trumpet her as the female GOAT in many threads.

Female singles goat, its safe to say martina is the goat as far as women when you factor in her doubles/mixed. She has like 62 grand slams or something (too many to count on wiki)

 

[mattosgrant]

Female singles goat, its safe to say martina is the goat as far as women when you factor in her doubles/mixed. She has like 62 grand slams or something (too many to count on wiki)

Court is actually the one with 62. Navratilova has 57 I believe.

Many people disregard doubles/mixed in GOAT talks. Some others give it extremely minor value. Many more people regard Serena and Graf as the GOAT than Martina these days (I dont neccessarily agree, particularly when it comes to Graf, but that is just reality). More to the point though tennisaddict has made it clear he/she considers Graf the female GOAT by many of his/her posts, yet she lost most of her matches (multiple encounters) to 34-36 year old Navratilova, and their lone slam meeting. That is far worse than Djokovic losing the occasional match to 31-33 year old Federer, winning everytime they played in a slam or WTF elimination match.

 

[tennisaddict]

Nole always wins when it matters though. Do you remember what happened the last 4 times they played in a slam or do I need to remind you.

34 year olds don't have the physicality to last BO5.

At BO3, it is still a toss up.

 

[tennisaddict]

Prime Steffi Graf actually had a losing record to 34-36 year old Navratilova, including losing their lone slam meeting in that period at the U.S Open. Yet I see you trumpet her as the female GOAT in many threads.

If head to heads were a large determining factor of GOAT than Federer could never be the GOAT with his record vs Nadal and peak Fed (2004-2006) going 3-6 vs 17-20 year old Nadal.

@cockneyDjoker makes a claim this Novak will be #1 in any era. These uncharacteristic losses to "better" players show that statement is far from the truth.

17-20 year old Nadal was fully developed, won 3 majors and a physical beast. 34 year old Fed struggles with consistency even between back to back big matches.

You put this Novak against the 17-20 year old Rafa and you can be rest assured that the results would not be pretty.

 

[Chadillac]

Court is actually the one with 62. Navratilova has 57 I believe.

Many people disregard doubles/mixed in GOAT talks. Some others give it extremely minor value. Many more people regard Serena and Graf as the GOAT than Martina these days (I dont neccessarily agree, particularly when it comes to Graf, but that is just reality). More to the point though tennisaddict has made it clear he/she considers Graf the female GOAT by many of his/her posts, yet she lost most of her matches (multiple encounters) to 34-36 year old Navratilova, and their lone slam meeting. That is far worse than Djokovic losing the occasional match to 31-33 year old Federer, winning everytime they played in a slam or WTF elimination match.

In that era serve and volley'rs got better with age like wine, now they age like milk. Martina was able to neutralize her slice return by coming in and could absorb her power on the forehand since it wasnt all that dippy. I used to have a mostly slice backhand like steffi and lefty s&v were my worst nightmare.

The lefty kick serve wide (american twist type where it spins the wrong way) to the duece court still confuses me though.

 

[cockneyDjoker]

@cockneyDjoker makes a claim this Novak will be #1 in any era. These uncharacteristic losses to "better" players show that statement is far from the truth.

17-20 year old Nadal was fully developed, won 3 majors and a physical beast. 34 year old Fed struggles with consistency even between back to back big matches.

You put this Novak against the 17-20 year old Rafa and you can be rest assured that the results would not be pretty.

Yeah exactly. Nadal would be luck to take 4 games from Novak on HC. On clay it's probably closer. You're seriously deluded if you think 17-20 Rafa has any chance outside clay of beating Novak. Try and be objective please for once.

 

[tennisaddict]

Yeah exactly. Nadal would be luck to take 4 games from Novak on HC. On clay it's probably closer. You're seriously deluded if you think 17-20 Rafa has any chance outside clay of beating Novak. Try and be objective please for once.

Clay will be Closer ? LOL.

Novak has won a single slam match against Rafa on clay in 2015, after Rafa is all washed up. He could not get a single RG win on clay from 2011-14 at the peak of his powers.

 

[cockneyDjoker]

Clay will be Closer ? LOL.

Novak has won a single slam match against Rafa on clay in 2015, after Rafa is all washed up. He could not get a single RG win on clay from 2011-14 at the peak of his powers.

Novak was 2-0 against Rafa on clay in 2011.

 

[tennisaddict]

Novak was 2-0 against Rafa on clay in 2011.

When did he beat him in a clay major ?

 

[cockneyDjoker]

When did he beat him in a clay major ?

It doesn't matter. My point is that 17-20 Rafa would lose 17/20 time outside clay and would beat him plenty of times on clay also. Just because Federer struggled against Nadal in his Prime doesn't mean Novak would.

 

[tennisaddict]

It doesn't matter. My point is that 17-20 Rafa would lose 17/20 time outside clay and would beat him plenty of times on clay also. Just because Federer struggled against Nadal in his Prime doesn't mean Novak would.

Cool story. 9-4 slam history shows otherwise

 

[PeterHo]

Yeah exactly. Nadal would be luck to take 4 games from Novak on HC. On clay it's probably closer. You're seriously deluded if you think 17-20 Rafa has any chance outside clay of beating Novak. Try and be objective please for once.

Nole will beat teenage rafa nearly everywhere else except clay, the overall h2h won't look good for rafa.

Fed got beaten by teenage rafa pretty much everywhere, even though he's the GOAT on hard.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

Djok = 16150 atp points

Murray = 8435 atp points

Pick any two of your so called big four, combine their numbers, djok still has more.

Big 4 was never about sharing the titles but about monopolyzing all tournaments victories and most SF spots.

 

[tennis_pro]

BOOMPA.