Bumped up in 4 matches?

[Hokiez]

Background:

A buddy of mine self ranked last year at 3.0 after having played as a kid, but not for the last 13 years (he's 32). Didn't play in highschool, college, etc. We played 6.5 combo (I was rated 3.5) and while we did good, it was at least my understanding combo didn't count towards your NTRP. Very good strokes, very inconsistent (no rallys more than 2-3 hits).

This year, he appeals up to 3.5 as he's improved in consistency and plays singles. Plays 4 matches at 3.5 and wins them pretty convincingly though only one is 6-0 6-1 (most are 2 and 4, 3 and 3) and the 0 and 1 was against a guy who has been beet 0 and 0, 1 and 1 by 2 other people.

Today he gets a call that he's being DQ'd, and in fact, is very close to a "double bump" to 4.5.

Anybody ever heard of this? 4 matches and a near double bump?

 

[raiden031]

I don't buy that one bit. For him to be double bumped to 4.5, he would have to have crushed 4.0 players, not just 3.5 players. You're leaving something out here.

 

[Hokiez]

Well, thanks for assuming I'm a liar and have nothing better to do than make up random stories. You sir, certainly have me pegged.

At any rate, inconsiderate people aside, I've left nothing out. Below is the match record. I've taken out the names for obvious reasons but you be the judge.

Date Buddy Opponent Result Court Level
4/29/2007 XXXXX - (DQ)* YYYYY 6-1, 6-3 #1 Singles 3.5
5/6/2007 XXXXX - (DQ)* ZZZZZ 6-4, 6-2 #1 Singles 3.5
5/13/2007 XXXXX - (DQ)* AAAAA 6-1, 6-0 #1 Singles 3.5
5/20/2007 XXXXX - (DQ)* BBBBB 6-3, 6-3 #2 Singles 3.5

Opponent AAAAA has a combined 0-4 record at 3.5 losing 6-2 6-2, 6-0 6-0, 6-0 6-1 and 6-1 6-0. YYYYY is 4 and 2 in singles, ZZZZZ is 2 and 1, and BBBBB had played singles only once but was 1 and 0.

Again, as stated before, his 2006 season consisted of only 6.5 combo tennis and he had never played USTA before. I'm not arguing he shouldn't have been bumped (he was a running joke at the club as a 3.5), I'd simply never heard of someone going from 3.0, appealing up to 3.5, winning 4 matches and being a borderline 4.5.

 

[Raiden.Kaminari]

I don't buy that one bit. For him to be double bumped to 4.5, he would have to have crushed 4.0 players, not just 3.5 players. You're leaving something out here.

Well, thanks for assuming I'm a liar and have nothing better to do than make up random stories. You sir, certainly have me pegged.

At any rate, inconsiderate people aside, I've left nothing out. Below is the match record. I've taken out the names for obvious reasons but you be the judge.

Date Buddy Opponent Result Court Level
4/29/2007 XXXXX - (DQ)* YYYYY 6-1, 6-3 #1 Singles 3.5
5/6/2007 XXXXX - (DQ)* ZZZZZ 6-4, 6-2 #1 Singles 3.5
5/13/2007 XXXXX - (DQ)* AAAAA 6-1, 6-0 #1 Singles 3.5
5/20/2007 XXXXX - (DQ)* BBBBB 6-3, 6-3 #2 Singles 3.5

Opponent AAAAA has a combined 0-4 record at 3.5 losing 6-2 6-2, 6-0 6-0, 6-0 6-1 and 6-1 6-0. YYYYY is 4 and 2 in singles, ZZZZZ is 2 and 1, and BBBBB had played singles only once but was 1 and 0.

Again, as stated before, his 2006 season consisted of only 6.5 combo tennis and he had never played USTA before. I'm not arguing he shouldn't have been bumped (he was a running joke at the club as a 3.5), I'd simply never heard of someone going from 3.0, appealing up to 3.5, winning 4 matches and being a borderline 4.5.

Hokiez, raiden031 was merely pointing out that you didn't provide enough data. Your second posting provided good data.

Match 1. Initial rating set to 4.0 for beating a high 3.5, probably below strike zone
Match 2. Initial rating set to 4.0 for beating a high 3.5, strike 1
Match 3. Initial rating set to 4.0 for beating a high 3.5, strike 2 (way past strike zone now)
Match 4. Initial rating set to 4.1X for beating another high 3.5, already NTRP 4.0 player (strike 3)

I've seen it happen before when someone self-rates too low, they get bumped up two levels. You see a lot of players that self-rated 2.5 when they're 3.5, and the computer catches up to them and bumps them up properly

 

[lordmanji]

how much did he play as a kid? what's his background? coaching? and he didnt pick up a racket a single time in 13 yrs? im not saying youre lying but i cant believe that. he prob exaggerated how little he's played as most people would to downplay expectations of others.

 

[Hokiez]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Noone in their right mind thought this guy was a 3.5. He's clearly a 4.0 and a very good one at that. I've only lost once in singles as a 4.0 and that was due to my shoulder and being unable to hit forehands and he and I are very close in competition. Neither of us are consistent enough for 4.5, yet. I just hadn't heard of anybody going from 3.5 to 4.5. 2.5 to 3.5 yes. Funny, the woman at the local USTA said the 6-0 and 6-1 dropped his point total as the guy is so bad, he shouldn't have lost a game to him, that guy is a 2.5 at best (how he has a 3.5 rating is anybodies guess).

 

[bleach]

I know that if you get bumped from a 3.5 to a 4.0 that means your internal rating is 3.51 or above. You can appeal and if your rating is 3.55 or lower it is granted, but you rating is set at 3.50.

Along the same lines; if you self rate at 3.0, then appeal up to 3.5, because you were self-rated, your rating would go to 3.50 (I believe). Then several wins would/could push you above the DQ threshold to 4.0. But I don't think it is possibly to push up your rating to 3.99 or above playing only 3.5 (and below) players. IMO, it's not mathmatically possible.

Also, I don't think you would know that you were "close" to getting bumped to 4.5 until it happened.

 

[LuckyR]

Noone in their right mind thought this guy was a 3.5. He's clearly a 4.0 and a very good one at that.

So someone who is a very good 4.0 self rated as a 3.0? He's a sandbagger of the highest order and the idea of being DQed is a good one and of being dropped into the 4.5's a humorous one (although I seriously doubt is being contemplated by the powers that be).

 

[kevhen]

USTA is messed up. Why don't you two just play 4.0 doubles together? Playing 6.5 last year was sandbagging.

 

[Hokiez]

So someone who is a very good 4.0 self rated as a 3.0? He's a sandbagger of the highest order and the idea of being DQed is a good one and of being dropped into the 4.5's a humorous one (although I seriously doubt is being contemplated by the powers that be).

Did you even read my first post? Last year he was a 3.0, plain and simple. If the point went more than 3 hits, he would frame the ball, hit it in the net, hit it long, etc. Double faults were at least one per game, sometimes 2-3. Throughout the course of last year and this spring, he and I played more and more and he improved very quickly (he's a rather gifted athlete) and got back into form.

I didn't play 6.5 (my partner was and still is a lower end 3.0) with him and him playing 6.5 wasn't sandbagging. 2 of his 4 6.5 combo matches went to third set tie-breakers. We've added him to our 4.0 team and we'll both play singles. We both aren't any good at the net and at 4.0 doubles, 2 people who are good at the net will beat 2 guys banging ground strokes at them more often than not in my experience.

 

[LuckyR]

Did you even read my first post? Last year he was a 3.0, plain and simple. If the point went more than 3 hits, he would frame the ball, hit it in the net, hit it long, etc. Double faults were at least one per game, sometimes 2-3. Throughout the course of last year and this spring, he and I played more and more and he improved very quickly (he's a rather gifted athlete) and got back into form.

I didn't play 6.5 (my partner was and still is a lower end 3.0) with him and him playing 6.5 wasn't sandbagging. 2 of his 4 6.5 combo matches went to third set tie-breakers. We've added him to our 4.0 team and we'll both play singles. We both aren't any good at the net and at 4.0 doubles, 2 people who are good at the net will beat 2 guys banging ground strokes at them more often than not in my experience.

Sure did, and a careful rereading sorts out the point you were struggling to make. I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Jack the Hack]

I know of one player in our local league that got bumped from a self rated 4.0 to a 5.0 in 4 matches this season. His strokes are really funky (lots of chips, no follow-through) and his serve doesn't go more than 80 mph. Truly, if you watched him warm up, you would say he is a 3.5-4.0 level based on the way he hits. However, this guy is also a borderline world class athlete with amazing foot speed, hand eye coordination, and competitive nature. He did not play in high school or college, had never played in the USTA league, and had not played at all in nearly 4 years. However, back in 2002 and 2003, he played in 3 or 4 Open tournaments and won a few matches... but most of the wins were over juniors and he never got ranked.

By the self-rating guidelines, he was eligible to sign up as low as a 3.0, and his team captain felt justified in having him self rate at 4.0 because of the deficiencies in his strokes and the fact that he hadn't played for so long. However, this guy played one match and beat a solid computer rated 4.0 opponent 6-0, 6-0. At that point, someone filed a grievance against him and the USTA sectional league committee re-rated him at 4.5 based on his play in the Open tournaments in 2002 and 2003. Then, this player signed up for another team, and won 3 matches against solid computer rated 4.5 opponents by the scores of 6-2, 6-0; 6-0, 6-0; and 6-1, 6-2... and he was disqualified again... and bumped to 5.0.

I think this is a pretty rare situation, and it's also been pretty humbling to watch. I played high school and college tennis, and have been ranked in the top 30 in the Open category in my section. I regularly get compliments on my groundstrokes, and some have mentioned how beautiful my backhand looks. However, I am a 4.5 and have only been rated 5.0 for a brief period. It has been shocking for me to watch a player with such terrible looking strokes absolutely hammer some of the best 4.5 players in our area and move to 5.0 so easily. However, it shows that the rating system is truly based on results (ie, it doesn't matter what your strokes look like) and that a superior athlete can beat a tennis player with better skills by simply being faster and running more balls down (ie, being a "wall").

 

[amarone]

I played someone self-rated 3.5 and he went 1-1 that season (I was the player he beat). The next season he played 4.0 and got DQed after an 11-0 season. He must have started that season still at 3.5 as he had only played two matches at 3.5, so he did get double-bumped. I just checked and he went 6-1 at 4.5 the following season.