Can we agree that the Fed-Djoker match will decide the 2nd best clay courter?
- Thread starter kraggy
- Start date
vtmike
Banned
Wait a min...I thought you said Nadal is the king of all clay...:?
Vamos Rafa. King of Clay. Slow clay, fast clay, all clay.
aphex
Banned
JeMar
Legend
jelle v
Hall of Fame
Pretty pathetic and predictable posts again from Nadal_Freak, Veroniquem and tr011.. the anti-Federer tripod..
In my opinion Nadal is by far the best clay courter (duh) and Federer and Djokovic are about of the same level, below Nadal.
Who the better clay courter is, is not decided by the outcome of 1 or even 2 matches between the two. Especially not in the case of Federer and Djokovic, 2 players who pretty close. You have to look at the overall picture. In the end it will be the form of the day that decides who wins an eventual semi-final between Federer and Djokovic. If they both play at 100% i would give Federer a 60% against Djoker 40% of winning, maybe 55 - 45.
In my opinion Nadal is by far the best clay courter (duh) and Federer and Djokovic are about of the same level, below Nadal.
Who the better clay courter is, is not decided by the outcome of 1 or even 2 matches between the two. Especially not in the case of Federer and Djokovic, 2 players who pretty close. You have to look at the overall picture. In the end it will be the form of the day that decides who wins an eventual semi-final between Federer and Djokovic. If they both play at 100% i would give Federer a 60% against Djoker 40% of winning, maybe 55 - 45.
kraggy
Banned
Agreed. Technically, unless we have a fairly large sample set of H2H clay matches played this year, it would be hard to make a statement on who is better right now. Personally though, I would give the edge to whomever wins the FO clash (assuming it happens).
thejoe
Hall of Fame
Also, I've just remembered that you said Nadal prefers faster clay (I'm thinking back to Barcelona) where you said that it was his best surface. So a fast, high bouncing surface really favours Nadal and he still lost. Wow.
Leublu tennis
Legend
I'm with you. If Djokovic does well against Federer, there is a good chance that he will take out Nadal. Hey, 3 m.p. in Madrid says a lot.
That is why you try to be 2nd seeded vs 3rd seeded. the higher you are ranked, usually the easier the draw. The only difference here is that there are some very good clay court players that aren't highly ranked because they stink on every other surface slanting the draw.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
It's already been decided.
WacArnold's
Banned
I agree, but why did he lose when it mattered the most.
N
nikdom
Guest
The whole point of the clay season is as a lead up to RG. I won't discredit what Djoko did on clay so far this year, but that just makes his exit today all the more shocking.
BTW - just to call out on your hypocrisy - you wouldn't extend the same courtesy to Roger. He's only lost to someone named Nadal at the FO the last 4 years, 3 times in the final. He would have at least 3 FOs without Nadal around. Are you willing to call him the 2nd best clay courter of the past 4 years?
lambielspins
Banned
A clay court season that achieved what? No Masters titles, no first win over Nadal, one dinky tournament over a bunch of nobodies in an event that his parents put together, and a 4th round loss at the French. Federer has achieved the Masters title, a win over Nadal, and advanced further at the French. Federer>Djokovic on clay yet again just like every other year.
vtmike
Banned
Funny I didn't see you say that when people jumped all over Fed when he lost to Djokovic...
kraggy
Banned
I'm a Nole fan and I'm not at all a fan of Federer but if Fed gets to the finals and makes a match of it , I will have to go with Fed being the 2nd best clay courter. If Fed loses with a scoreline similar to FO 08, I think I would call it a hung jury!
lambielspins
Banned
Djokovic has never achieved anything that would put him contention for being the 2nd best clay courter. 1 Masters title, no French Open finals, no wins over Nadal on clay. He hasnt even beaten David Ferrer on clay yet in his career for crying out loud, and took playing Federer multiple times before finally getting a win. This year he cost his country the Davis Cup tie vs Spain since he got beat in 3 straight sets by Ferrer, his 3rd or 4th straight loss to Ferrer on clay lifetime, and he loses in the 3rd round of the French in straight sets to Kohlschreiber and there is a discussion of him being the 2nd best on clay, LOL!
Serve_Ace
Professional
So you don't remember 2006, or 2007 at all do you, only 2008 RG happened apparently.
kraggy
Banned
I think most people are only talking about THIS season as far as the comparison. Overall career-wise, of course Fed is the better clay courter. This season( until today) , Djoker has been more consistent(until today) than Fed looked and hence looked like he could be the 2nd best clay courter. I might be wrong but I think Djoker earned more points on clay than Federer. A parallel example might be something like Seffina vs Serena. Seffina may have way more points but Serena is the big slam winner. After today's loss though, the results at this point are definitely in favor of Federer. Unless Fed is thrashed by Nadal in the final, I would vote in favor of Federer as the 2nd best clay courter of the season, despite being a huge Nole fan.
kraggy
Banned
We are talking about this season only. In 2006 , 2007 etc of course Fed was the 2nd best.
N
nikdom
Guest
yeah, the very same people who go around saying Djokovic gets no credit have really bad double standards when it comes to Roger.
THESEXPISTOL
Hall of Fame
Yes, i think we can
thejoe
Hall of Fame
No, but Federer's Masters Shield and a better performance at RG certainly does.
lambielspins
Banned
Not to mention Djokovic being spanked in straight sets by a past his prime David Ferrer in Davis Cup, causing his country to lose that tie.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Djokovic lost in the 3rd round today, not the 4th round.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
I wish I knew. I didn't get to watch the match because I usually DVR it and watch it at my own leisure. When I turned the TV on it was almost over. But Kohlschreiber is a good player, he reminds me of Davydenko, so he deserved his win!
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Does this stuff really matter? Before Fed won Madrid, he was having a horrible season. Djokovic was the better clay player. Things have turned around very recently, so why is everyone acting like Djokovic never had a chance? It was a fluke loss. Who would have ever bet on Djokovic losing to Kohlschreiber, in a grand slam no less?
I'm puzzled by all the finger pointing and childish behavior over this result. Not you personally, but you'd think some people were actually going to get surprise deposits in their bank accounts!
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
WRONG! Joker was having a better clay season. He has never been a better clay court player than Federer.
Now stop posting your trollish filth.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Go read some posts of mine before calling me out on my hypocrisy. When Fed lost the Wimbledon final I was consoling the Fed Fans because they were so distraught. When Rafa beat Fed 1-3-0 at the French last year, I didn't say anything negative about the result. Unless, posters like yourself got out of line and start calling me out with baseless claims.
But, unlike many posters here, I don't act childish and petty when my fave wins or loses. And I don't dog out the person who lost, not even Fed. That's pathetic behaviour and belongs on the playground, imo.
If you knew anything about my post history, you would've never made such a false claim.
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TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Whatever! What does that do for your life? I'm cracking up laughing at the extent to which you care!
I'm not living on their results. I have my own life!
P.S.-Did you ever answer my post about the pot calling the kettle black? Remember? You called someone a troll...you know the rest!
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
You are disrespecting the rules of this forum.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
I don't care. I wasn't expecting an answer, because I know you don't have one, other than to resort to name-calling.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
N
nikdom
Guest
I don't have to know your history. Right now you're not willing to concede Roger is the better player on clay against all logic. That's enough for me. I think the only reason you are on this thread is to troll.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
You don't have to know my history to make false claims about me? You won't even check to see if you're right?
OK!
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
N
nikdom
Guest
What is a false claim? That you are a hypocrite? That is evident just from the fact that you won't call Roger the 2nd best on the SAME logic you're willing to apply to cut Djoko some slack. What else do I need. That you sympathized with Fed fans somewhere in the distant past is irrelevant to this discussion.
Except high balls are supposed to _help_ Nadal and hurt Federer, because of his 1-handed backhand, which makes handling the high balls more difficult.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Go back and read your initial post to me where you called me a hypocrite and said I wouldn't give Fed credit. The proof is on these boards, which you didn't bother to verify.
So, if I don't think Fed is the 2nd best clay courter I'm a hypocrite? Sorry, it's called my opinion. But, I think you are trying to stir up trouble so I'm going to avoid any further discussion with you.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
How? You're the one who started this, days ago. Just like you've been doing to Veroniquem here lately. You need to stop this silliness. Really.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
N
nikdom
Guest
The definition of hypocrisy is to hold one to a certain standard and another to a different standard. If its ok for Djoko to lose in the 3rd round of the RG, not EVER having made it even as far as the finals and call him the 2nd best clay courter when Roger has TONS more achievements on clay than him, then its hypocrisy - and your hypocrisy IS your opinion.
As far as avoiding further discussion, what am I afraid of? That you'll start making sense all of a sudden?
Josherer
Professional
Correct.
If you put Nadal aside, some would argue that Clay is Fed's best surface considering his record on the surface.
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