Clarification on Smart Targets Question from Ventura County coaches

[LeeD]

Winners are hit where the opponent isn't.
Winners can be hit mid length up the hash mark, if the opponent is left standing on the sidelines.
Charts only shows the final location of the last ball, like where it landed. What's more important for tennis players, is how it was set up.

 

[Power Player]

Yeah, this MTM thing is becoming a turn off. And it's a shame because I really like Wegner.

 

[RetroSpin]

Apparently it never ends with the MTM-haters either. Sheesh guys, we get it. Now give it a rest already.

 

[5263]

Yeah, this MTM thing is becoming a turn off. And it's a shame because I really like Wegner.

Interesting...and how do you make the leap from MTM to Smart Targets? What is the common link you see?

 

[boramiNYC]

Yeah I don't see a clear connection either. That's a stretch.

 

[mightyrick]

I originally envisioned round, oval-like targets but eventually found that the students couldn't determine all the time if they had actually hit the targets or not. So I redesigned the system to be have hard, easily identifiable boundaries where the student as well as the instructor could more easily gauge performance.

Safe Targets is just a guideline though.

I think it's a good decision that you made. Given that the geometric shape of the court and the boundary lines are rectangular... it only makes sense that your targets are also rectangular in nature. I'm really liking the theory.

 

[5263]

yes, really good to see all the interest in targeting ideas!

 

[onehandbh]

Winners are hit where the opponent isn't.
Winners can be hit mid length up the hash mark, if the opponent is left standing on the sidelines.

You can still be a winner without hitting a winner. MLK was a winner and he
never played in a grand slam.

 

[5263]

More good charts of shot placements.

 

[Power Player]

Yeah I don't see a clear connection either. That's a stretch.

These guys are MTM coaches dude. I thought you knew this. Hence the reason 5263 brought up a Wegner quote from literally out of nowhere to bump his own thread.

 

[mightyrick]

No doubt. People know this.

 

[boramiNYC]

These guys are MTM coaches dude. I thought you knew this. Hence the reason 5263 brought up a Wegner quote from literally out of nowhere to bump his own thread.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. I'll get back to you soon with my thoughts when the time comes.

 

[WildVolley]

These guys are MTM coaches dude. I thought you knew this. Hence the reason 5263 brought up a Wegner quote from literally out of nowhere to bump his own thread.

The hate runs deep against Wegner as can be seen by your post. Still 5263 has a point that his smart target ideas really don't have anything to do with Wegner, so you should chill out a bit.

The target idea is somewhat interesting. I find that I naturally hit deeper than most of the professionals, and I could probably up my winning percentage by hitting more spin and not going for as much power. But I admit that I love to hit winners, so maybe I should just hang out at the deep impact target thread.

 

[Power Player]

The hate runs deep against Wegner as can be seen by your post. Still 5263 has a point that his smart target ideas really don't have anything to do with Wegner, so you should chill out a bit.

You should really focus on your reading comprehension before making false assumptions and accusing people of hate, which is a rather strong word in the context of a tennis discussion.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=8154404&postcount=102

 

[5263]

Exactly. And I do not think it is a new idea at all, nor did I ever say it was.

In fact, it is an OLD idea that is not used nearly as much at the rec level anymore.

If I could summarize this thread it would be this - TRY IT. Try attacking the angles more, and working on your skills there. It really does make a difference in your game and allows for variety as well.

Only had to change about 2 words PP's post and it fits this thread well.

 

[Power Player]

Notice how my words are much easier to read than yours and make more sense.

I think you are on to something. Feel free to take my words and use them as a template.

Your posts will be much better and I have no problem allowing you the privilege of using my syntax.

 

[5263]

Notice how my words are much easier to read than yours and make more sense.

I think you are on to something. Feel free to take my words and use them as a template.

Your posts will be much better and I have no problem allowing you the privilege of using my syntax.

Well, at least they are something that maybe you can understand

 

[5263]

I think it's a good decision that you made. Given that the geometric shape of the court and the boundary lines are rectangular... it only makes sense that your targets are also rectangular in nature. I'm really liking the theory.

Sure, rectangles are fine if that is what you like

 

[5263]

yes. i've seen it. I think you mean Federer though not soderling. Or maybe soderling and fed were in the same vid.
I agree w/ hand position determining where the ball goes.

I debated also that it was Fed in this vid, not soderling....I guess it is gone now...

 

[teachestennis]

I debated also that it was Fed in this vid, not soderling....I guess it is gone now...

I confirmed with Christophe Delavaut that it was Soderling since Chris actually filmed the video during an ATP match but the ATP forced him to take all his videos with ATP pros during matches down.


Also, years have gone by and I now am convinced Smart Targets is the best way for student to learn, as Darren Cahill said about Simona Halep when she used to try to hit through people, "she had to learn to hit around people." Smart Targets is more thorough than at first glance. 5263 and I work with a pro player on the Challenger tour who credited Smart Targets with his victory over Tennys Sandgren and we still work with this player behind the scenes despite his training at the USTA training center. Why does he come to us still (I first worked on court with him at age 14) and Chuck worked with him after he started college. It's because the best coaches at the USTA training center don't have anything he views as good as Smart Targets. Stay tuned guys...... 5263 just got confirmation from a company that did point of contact training for the USTA that many of his innovations were correct after he first told them in 2015 they were missing a very important point. 5263 is a true tennis pioneer in my documentation of tennis instruction history and Smart Targets has had a huge influence no doubt since he first started introduced it.

 

[rogerroger917]

Is there a book or articles? I saw a small diagram in beginning of thread but that was it. Hard to find thread too long.

 

[onehandbh]

More good charts of shot placements.

Really impressive that there were so few shots landing shorter than the service line.

 

[sureshs]

I debated also that it was Fed in this vid, not soderling....I guess it is gone now...

It took 4 years to post this?

 

[5263]

Really impressive that there were so few shots landing shorter than the service line.

interesting take on things...

 

[onehandbh]

interesting take on things...

And most to backhand side.
Impressive to me bc as a kid we were taught to try and keep the ball past the service line during rallies. In a match it can be tougher at
times.

Also, few up the middle to deuce side unless more angled away.

 

[5263]

And most to backhand side.
Impressive to me bc as a kid we were taught to try and keep the ball past the service line during rallies. In a match it can be tougher at
times.

Also, few up the middle to deuce side unless more angled away.

I'm sure you are right and know what you were taught, but in all the top training I saw traveling with my son, balls landing near the svc line, even if beyond it, was never encouraged. Img academies, Van der Meer, Macci and others all pushed for far more depth than we see in the chart.

 

[5263]

If you get up here, let me know. I'd like to hit some around.

I might be coming up for the US Open this year.

 

[Topspin Shot]

I might be coming up for the US Open this year.

I'd love to meet up but unfortunately I don't live in NY anymore. If I happen to be visiting my family during the Open I'll let you know though.

 

[5263]

I'd love to meet up but unfortunately I don't live in NY anymore. If I happen to be visiting my family during the Open I'll let you know though.

where are you living now?

 

[Topspin Shot]

where are you living now?

DC

 

[sureshs]

I debated also that it was Fed in this vid, not soderling....I guess it is gone now...

Yes, because it has been 4 years since the last post in this thread.

 

[sureshs]

I confirmed with Christophe Delavaut that it was Soderling since Chris actually filmed the video during an ATP match but the ATP forced him to take all his videos with ATP pros during matches down.


Also, years have gone by and I now am convinced Smart Targets is the best way for student to learn, as Darren Cahill said about Simona Halep when she used to try to hit through people, "she had to learn to hit around people." Smart Targets is more thorough than at first glance. 5263 and I work with a pro player on the Challenger tour who credited Smart Targets with his victory over Tennys Sandgren and we still work with this player behind the scenes despite his training at the USTA training center. Why does he come to us still (I first worked on court with him at age 14) and Chuck worked with him after he started college. It's because the best coaches at the USTA training center don't have anything he views as good as Smart Targets. Stay tuned guys...... 5263 just got confirmation from a company that did point of contact training for the USTA that many of his innovations were correct after he first told them in 2015 they were missing a very important point. 5263 is a true tennis pioneer in my documentation of tennis instruction history and Smart Targets has had a huge influence no doubt since he first started introduced it.

Is your book ready?

 

[5263]

Yes, because it has been 4 years since the last post in this thread.

at least my post was on topic, lol.
and by the way, what is the issue some have with commenting on old threads? There is a lot in this thread that some are going to have to make excuses for....

 

[rogerroger917]

Where is the white hat guy?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[5263]

Teaching acceleration rather than speed is okay, if it gets the desired results. But the equation F=ma does not apply to racket ball collisions. How's the book coming along?

You have probably done this before, but could you explain why or give me a link to where you explained it before. THis is Not a specialty area for me, but I have conversed with a couple Profs where it is.....and they said that F=ma does apply. I'm not taking a side here, but would love to get clear on this.

 

[Dragy]

You have probably done this before, but could you explain why or give me a link to where you explained it before. THis is Not a specialty area for me, but I have conversed with a couple Profs where it is.....and they said that F=ma does apply. I'm not taking a side here, but would love to get clear on this.

Would it not apply in a way that ball acceleration equates force applied divided by mass of the ball? Acceleration is a product of force and a factor of speed in time.

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

They really don't have to be triangles.
Mainly it is about keeping it simple, but there are several good reasons to use the triangle. One simple reason is it is the smallest number of cones you can use to make a shape. I like to use cones because they are highly visible and stack well for transport. Even so, I don't want to carry 50 of them to every lesson and this way I only need 6.

3.... ^


................. ^ 2

1.... ^

Above is a diagram of the 3 cones numbered. Please ignore the periods, as they are just there to space the cones. I hope it is clear how hitting on a shot line from #1 to #3 cones will give you a dtl rally reference just as hitting on a shot line from #2 to #3 cones will give you a reference for a cross court rally shots. I like to think of the space between #2 & #3 as the gate. The gate or entrance serves as a reference for every shot between dtl and cross court.

Cone #3 is general reference for the intended depth of shots, and being well beyond the svc line, it should satisfy what most of us realize is reasonable depth for our shots. It is also well short of the BL to provide a good margin for error in that direction. Intending to hit your dtl over the #1 cone to land on or just past the #3 cone should be a good reference for the shot with margins. The triangle can be moved to adjust if you need to increase your margins. Same Idea works for cross court and everything else inside the gate.

While that is the basic idea above, you can get more precise as you work with the targets more. As stated above, #3 cone is the general reference for rally shots, but the #1 cone just inside the svc line may be a better reference for tighter angle shot selection like putaway volleys. Sometimes in practice I might even throw a hulu hoop over the cone that is the primary reference for the drill, to highlight it or even just use the hoop by itself.

I really like the #2 cone for a reference when attacking short balls. Being just past the svc line and well off the sideline makes it very useful for working any angle on that attack (topspin or slice). I especially like the #2 cone for putting away shorter overheads. If attacking dtl, then the #1 & #3 cones still work great.

So in the end we have a very simple target, using very few cones, that can cover a wide variety of tactics and strategies. There are other good places on the court to go for particular reasons, but these tend to cover the bulk of what you do on rally, mid ct attacks, as well as finishing shots near the net imo.

Can you please post a photo of how you arrange the cones? Thank you!! BHBH

 

[5263]

Can you please post a photo of how you arrange the cones? Thank you!! BHBH

this thread has several pics....https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/practice-for-smarter-targets.413112/

look at each corner in this pic....http://i43.tinypic.com/abkplf.jpg

 

[5263]

Thank you!! BHBH

While in their most simple form, the idea would be to bounce the shots in or close to the triangle, the concept goes way beyond that. Looking at it from a more advanced perspective, the 2 cones closest to the net form a gate or lanes for the shots to enter. In most cases now I refer to this as the Smart Target "hitting lanes" to try to be more sure that players understand it's more about the shot path than the actual bounce point. Notice that both gates or hitting lane entrance is visible & accessible from nearly every hitting position you will likely find yourself in.

If you are behind the BL in a rally situation, then you would look to use the inside part of the hitting lane, closer to the 2nd cone and slightly to the middle side of the back cone.
If you are up into the court to attack with your feet inside the baseline, then you can look to be more aggressive and work the outside half of the lane that is for a wider or bigger angle shot and takes the ball off the court more.
The front 2 cones are the big part of a funnel, with the deepest cone representing the small side of a funnel. This works for both dtl and cc shots and should help you to train on hitting wide without hitting too wide and also no opponent is needed to realize where to work these shots (like with a ball machine). It helps you to realize that these two lanes ( rally side of the lane and the attack side of the lanes) never really move despite where your opponent is. It should help you to focus less on aiming the shot on small details of where the opponent is and to focus more on the general lanes that dont change.....Sure, pick the side most away from your opponent to make them run farther or the lane on the side of the Bh if that is the weakness you are targeting, but not so much on trying to hit a certain amount away from the opponent.

These lanes represent where you should be able to hit without raising your risk level, but as far that way as you can go without raising the risks. They are sort of a sweet spot lane of the court for the most gain without an extra price of risks.

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

this thread has several pics....https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/practice-for-smarter-targets.413112/

look at each corner in this pic....http://i43.tinypic.com/abkplf.jpg

Thank you!!

 

[Pete Player]

this thread has several pics....https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/practice-for-smarter-targets.413112/

look at each corner in this pic....http://i43.tinypic.com/abkplf.jpg

The pics are no longer available. However I got the idea.

Here is some other instruction on how smart targets would be beneficial. In this or in a locked thread @LeeD told every other or more than half the players at level 4.0 knows this and stands waiting the smart targeted shot right there.

The reason of higher level players knowing this is, that the game is what it is. Beginners and intermediate players lack the knowledge on how to play the per centages and when it would be beneficial to break a pattern in a way, you woun’t hurt your own game.

And also in the low ranks the winners are the shots people admire. Hence they don’t understand, that every contact does not provide a potential winner, but an error.


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[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The reason of higher level players knowing this is, that the game is what it is. Beginners and intermediate players lack the knowledge on how to play the per centages and when it would be beneficial to break a pattern in a way, you woun’t hurt your own game.

Beginners lack the knowledge.
Intermediates have the knowledge but not necessarily the ability to execute and the patience to construct the point.

And also in the low ranks the winners are the shots people admire. Hence they don’t understand, that every contact does not provide a potential winner, but an error.

They may understand it in a dry, academic way but not in a visceral way. So when presented with the opportunity, the primitive brain who wants the ESPN highlight shot overrides the rational brain who wants to stick with Wardlaw.

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

Can someone post the images again please !?


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[5263]

The pics are no longer available. However I got the idea.

Here is some other instruction on how smart targets would be beneficial. In this or in a locked thread @LeeD told every other or more than half the players at level 4.0 knows this and stands waiting the smart targeted shot right there.

The reason of higher level players knowing this is, that the game is what it is. Beginners and intermediate players lack the knowledge on how to play the per centages and when it would be beneficial to break a pattern in a way, you woun’t hurt your own game.

And also in the low ranks the winners are the shots people admire. Hence they don’t understand, that every contact does not provide a potential winner, but an error.

I'm not sure how you liked that video you posted. Those guys are some of the better instructors online for sure, but this is sort of my area of interest and even I glazed over in that presentation. It was called "where to aim" but seemed to be more about how to cover the court. I realize these are 2 sides of the same coin, but Imo he didn't keep to the point that well even though most of it seemed basically correct.

That said, presentations like that are why I developed Smart Targets. I think when most people look at Smart Targets, it portrays the hitting lanes in a way that players know right away how to use them in the most basic way, right out of the gates. For some it looks so easy they don't see why it even needs to be taught, but I think that video shows how much there is to know on this topic and he really just sort of scratched the surface of what Smart Targets covers. He really didn't get into where to hit when going CC, DTL or the short angle and he completely ignored our 3rd Target that jams the opponent. He spent most of the time sharing about bisecting the angle of your opponents options, along with how to avoid opening up your own court by hitting CC.

Things I didn't like about the vid were his placement of ball cans too deep into the corner and too close the the sideline. I realize he didn't say to hit them and was mainly giving reference, but from teaching for decades, I can anticipate how most students will interpret their placement on a subconscious level. I think if many of you are honest, you can admit that they came off as targets to hit for....Smart Targets is careful to build space inside the lines for better consistency in the cone placement presentation.

Also, I think given the title, he should have better covered 'when and how' to hit the heavy angle along with 'when and how" to work less angle but deeper. The directionals cover the basics on this, but there is more to it he could have shared. Monfils hit one shot to the middle Avoid Zone that he called a mistake dtl, so I would have like to see him show how that middle ball was a mistake rather than calling it a dtl mistake.
But overall, this was better than most instruction Imo.