Dented = Dead

[maxpotapov]

Once cross strings become dented and lock mains in place, the stringbed becomes harsh on impact, lively response is gone. This is especially true for full poly setups, but "dented" full syn gut stringbed feel dead as well.

So, it's not so much inherent elasticity of the string that fades away after some hammering. It's string on string action that is immediately felt missing. Usually it happens long before string itself deadens.

What are your setups that never put a dent on crosses? Notching of the mains does not matter.

I'll start with few examples from my experience:

Gosen Polylon / OGSM
Gosen OGSM / Polylon
Pacific Tough Gut / WC Mosquito Bite
Pacific Tough Gut / MSV Co.-Focus 18
OGSM crosses usually thin out but are not dented

And here is a few that I remember that dented crosses:
Head Sonic Pro full (after first outing)
Head FXP Tour full (after first outing)
Dunlop Black Widow 17 / OGSM (over time, maybe due to dense stringbed and flatter hitting)
Kirschbaum Touch Multifiber full
Gosen OGSM full
Forten Sweet full
Luxilon BB full

What a waste of money when mains are locked in place long before they lose elasticity. Unless it's a match day, I will have to resort to hybrids that "slide" = feel lively just a little longer

 

[dominikk1985]

I agree that dented crosses are worse than dented mains because it prevents the mains from sliding.

I think that is another reason to put the softer string in the mains in a hybrid (in gut/poly or Multi/poly).

 

[SpinToWin]

Careful with your choice of words. With notching I agree with you, but not with denting. The 4G crosses in my setup are dented, but the setup is far from dead (it is extremely playable) because they are not notched.

 

[maxpotapov]

I thought I made it clear it's about crosses. Whatever prevents mains from moving.
And yes, that's what I meant: does not have to be a deep notch to get mains stuck. Dents are bad too, even though it takes less effort to move mains out of place.

 

[TimothyO]

Very much agree, especially with respect to spin potential. Dented crosses = less spin.

I've tried a number of poly crosses (and multis) and tbose which dent more drop off in spin more.

I sort of agree with both the OP and STW on feel. Dented crosses can still be lively depending on the string, but they can also feel harsh as the OP notes.

Of the many, many poly and multi crosses I've tried the one that is MOST dent resistent by far is Focus Hex 1.23. Nothing else comes close. Whether gut or multi mains the FH remains smooth for a very long time. This is with 16 mains and 95 to 100 inch heads. Tension anywhere from 52/48 to 59/55.

I've also found that you can test a string for dentability to some degree. Bend it and observe the result at the point where bent. If the surface ripples, weakens, significantly discolors, or refuses to return relstively straight and smooth then it will probably dent when strung as a cross. For example, 4G and many other Lux strings will sbow lots of surface ripples when bent and refuse to fully straighten.

 

[Triskadekaphilia]

Hey tim,

Do you think focus hex 1.23 works better than cofocus as a cross? Resists denting or notching longer?

Thanks

 

[TimothyO]

Hey tim,

Do you think focus hex 1.23 works better than cofocus as a cross? Resists denting or notching longer?

Thanks

I've used both extensively and they are different.

In dense stringbeds and smaller heads such as the Pure Storm Ltd (95", 18 mains) I'd recommend CoFocus, especially its thinner gauges.

For open patterns and larger heads (95"+ and 16 mains) I'd recommend Focus Hex, 1.23 or thicker.

Both are low friction and very comfortable for a poly, especially with gut mains. CoFocus is livelier and smoother but at the cost of little less control. Focus Hex is more control oriented but with a little less pop. And don't worry about the "Hex" part of Focus Hex. Yes, it's a shaped poly, but it's not like it's razor edged and will slice through the mains like a hot knife through butter.

Focus Hex resists denting/notching better than CoFocus. I think it might be the profile cut. Perhaps it lends resilience to the string as it resists pressure from the mains. It's like folding a piece of paper to make it rigid rather than floppy.

After starting with CoFocus I moved to Focus Hex as the SW of my frames increased and I came to prefer larger/more open patterns. In that setup I felt like CoFocus was simply to lively for me. But if I were to go back to small/dense patterns again I wouldn't hesitate to use CoFocus. When I played with the Pure Storm Ltd I used CF 18g in the crosses and loved the amount of spin I got with gut mains.

 

[maxpotapov]

Very much agree, especially with respect to spin potential. Dented crosses = less spin.

I've tried a number of poly crosses (and multis) and tbose which dent more drop off in spin more.

I sort of agree with both the OP and STW on feel. Dented crosses can still be lively depending on the string, but they can also feel harsh as the OP notes.

Of the many, many poly and multi crosses I've tried the one that is MOST dent resistent by far is Focus Hex 1.23. Nothing else comes close. Whether gut or multi mains the FH remains smooth for a very long time. This is with 16 mains and 95 to 100 inch heads. Tension anywhere from 52/48 to 59/55.

I've also found that you can test a string for dentability to some degree. Bend it and observe the result at the point where bent. If the surface ripples, weakens, significantly discolors, or refuses to return relstively straight and smooth then it will probably dent when strung as a cross. For example, 4G and many other Lux strings will sbow lots of surface ripples when bent and refuse to fully straighten.

Very interesting!
Especially this bending test

I guess Focus Hex is just a shaped version of Co.-Focus?

 

[TimothyO]

Very interesting!
Especially this bending test

I guess Focus Hex is just a shaped version of Co.-Focus?

According to John at G&G Focus Hex is chemically the same as Hepta-Twist. The only difference is number of sides and the twist. I found Hepta-Twist far more lively (too lively for me) and another TT member suggested the twist may cause that.

IIRC CoFocus is different chemically but not too dissimilar. It's extremely smooth and functions well as a cross with gut mains.

 

[TimothyO]

Very interesting!
Especially this bending test

The bending test seems to reflect material fatigue and surface hardness.

If you've ever worked with plastic models or broke a paper clip by bending it back and forth then you've experienced material fatigue.

And there are soft plastics which can be easily scratched or abraded and hard plastics that are very scratch/impact resistant.

It seems that some strings are more resilient to constant pressure and impacts than others and their surfaces are harder than others which allows them to resist grooving/notching better.

Focus Hex has a very hard, very shiny/glossy surface and bending it doesn't change the surface all that much. If you bend 4G it ripples A LOT, turns lighter in color, and resists attempts to straighten it again. It also remains weaker and more easily bent at that same point, more so than Focus Hex.

 

[mad dog1]

so far, the only string that did not abrade, dent or thin as a cross was ashaway monogut zx. every other string exhibited alot of wear after 5-10 hours of hitting.

 

[maxpotapov]

so far, the only string that did not abrade, dent or thin as a cross was ashaway monogut zx. every other string exhibited alot of wear after 5-10 hours of hitting.

Maybe it was 16 gauge, or tension, but I did not find ZX all that slippery for natural gut mains. And too muted or too plastic feedback, did not feel as soft as numbers suggest. Wanted to try ZX Pro Red for crosses though

 

[maxpotapov]

^^TimothyO, great insight!

I'll have to try hex or hepta

 

[maxpotapov]

I'm cutting out HEAD Sonic Pro after two hitting sessions. It felt pretty good first time, but next time it was less lively and crisp, so I don't want to tire myself by that "deflated" stringbed anymore. Besides, it feels a bit harsher on impact even though the stringbed softened, which is evident on flat shots. Dents are not deep, but mains already click in place and it takes an effort to move them by fingers.

Deadened stringbed kill the joy of playing tennis for me. I want to enjoy every time I hit the ball - where is technology for that?

 

[SpinToWin]

I'm cutting out HEAD Sonic Pro after two hitting sessions. It felt pretty good first time, but next time it was less lively and crisp, so I don't want to tire myself by that "deflated" stringbed anymore. Besides, it feels a bit harsher on impact even though the stringbed softened, which is evident on flat shots. Dents are not deep, but mains already click in place and it takes an effort to move them by fingers.

Deadened stringbed kill the joy of playing tennis for me. I want to enjoy every time I hit the ball - where is technology for that?

gut/poly hybrids?

 

[maxpotapov]

gut/poly hybrids?

I don't know, sometimes I want a "sparkling" stringbed with Luxilon vibe... Maybe some poly/poly hybrid?

 

[scotus]

I'm cutting out HEAD Sonic Pro after two hitting sessions. It felt pretty good first time, but next time it was less lively and crisp, so I don't want to tire myself by that "deflated" stringbed anymore. Besides, it feels a bit harsher on impact even though the stringbed softened, which is evident on flat shots. Dents are not deep, but mains already click in place and it takes an effort to move them by fingers.

Deadened stringbed kill the joy of playing tennis for me. I want to enjoy every time I hit the ball - where is technology for that?

I didn't like Sonic Pro at all.

I hit with it freshly strung for about 10 minutes before putting it in the bag.

 

[mad dog1]

Maybe it was 16 gauge, or tension, but I did not find ZX all that slippery for natural gut mains. And too muted or too plastic feedback, did not feel as soft as numbers suggest. Wanted to try ZX Pro Red for crosses though

yeah, it wasn't that slippery. i took part in the Crossfire playtest (monogut mains with zyex crosses) and i found the mains stopped snapping back pretty quickly. also wasn't that soft and made a pinging sound at contact. but the crosses looked as good as new even when i cut them out at the end.

 

[SpinToWin]

I don't know, sometimes I want a "sparkling" stringbed with Luxilon vibe... Maybe some poly/poly hybrid?

Well Luxilon won't last no matter what.

You can't have your cake and eat it too

 

[oble]

Solinco Outlast is a nice smooth, notch-resistant, durable poly to put in crosses.

Thinking of trying out gut in mains but it's so expensive here in Australia.. $50 for a set of Pacific Classic Gut, $60 for a set of Pacific Tough Gut, $80 for a set of VS Team or VS Touch.

 

[maxpotapov]

^^ Is not that ironic? Australia, the land where natural gut grows

So, I cut out Sonic Pro after 4 hours and today played with fresh Kirschbaum Touch Multifibre 16 / Gosen OGSM 17 @ 48/48 lbs. Funny thing it did not feel more lively than "dented" Sonic Pro. And that's because Kirschbaum string has sticky PU coating that prevents it from sliding/snapping back.

Just wanted to see how multi/syn gut would perform. Less control, less feel, and somewhat stiffer than fresh full poly. Lesson learned: string on string sliding is all I need for comfort and performance.

 

[Triskadekaphilia]

Why is gut so expensive in Australia? Is klip more reasonably priced? At that price I would consider using synthetics as well, as long as they also are not similarly priced up.

 

[ricardo]

Try Babolat elastocross string savers

I want to enjoy every time I hit the ball - where is technology for that?

I have been using Babolat strings savers for a long time.
They save my NG mains by preventing/reducing denting/notching.
They also keep my strings 'slipping and sliding' until they break.

I use NG on the mains and multi/syn/poly on the crosses.

My crosses break due to fraying/thinning, not notching/denting.

I also pre-stretch both, getting at least 6 inches permament elongation on a 20 feet string.

 

[maxpotapov]

I have been using Babolat strings savers for a long time.
They save my NG mains by preventing/reducing denting/notching.
They also keep my strings 'slipping and sliding' until they break.

I use NG on the mains and multi/syn/poly on the crosses.

My crosses break due to fraying/thinning, not notching/denting.

I also pre-stretch both, getting at least 6 inches permament elongation on a 20 feet string.

I have a pack of Babolat string savers, will have to use them in full gut setup probably. I thought I would need them for gut/poly, but Tough Gut/Mosquito Bite showed no dents or notches to my surprise. Broke due to surface wear, after more than a year of occasional hitting