Did Federer play worse in the Wimbledon 2015 final than he did in the semis?

Did Federer play worse in the Wimbledon 2015 final than he did in the semis?

  • Yes, Federer played significantly worse in the final

    Votes: 14 36.8%
  • Yes, but only slightly worse in the final

    Votes: 13 34.2%
  • No, his level was equally good in the final. Djokovic was just unstoppable that day

    Votes: 9 23.7%
  • No, his level was better in the final

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • Total voters
    38
I hear so many people, especially Federer fans, claiming that Federer played significantly worse in the final against Djokovic than he did in the semi-final against Murray in Wimbledon 2015.
But is this really true or did he just look weaker because he faced a stronger opponent?
 
It's both. He played worse and also was made to look weaker by the stronger opponent. It's impossible to isolate one thing from the other.
Yeah true, because tennis is a game where your level of play depends on the level of your opponent. 2015 Djokovic tbh troubled Roger's game way more than Murray did.
 

bnjkn

Professional
Yeah true, because tennis is a game where your level of play depends on the level of your opponent. 2015 Djokovic tbh troubled Roger's game way more than Murray did.
Yeah, Murray could trouble Federer sometimes but there were some matches where he had nothing and Federer would kind of routine him.

Federer was sublime at some points in 2015 but the level of Djokovic was scary.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Honestly speaking, I was never that impressed with his level in the semifinal. Murray for most of 2014-2016 was really a punching bag for the top players, especially in slams. Federer played a good match, especially on serve, but it didn't feel like anything extraordinary to me, leave alone anything close to his best ever match, as some try to claim. As expected, Murray couldn't stand the pressure at the end of each set.

I really think in the final we saw the true level of 2015 Federer, which was decent, but nowhere near the required level to beat an in-form opponent in BO5. After the second set he looked physically done.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Most definitely. Federer was an absolute serve-bot in the semi-final. Never let Murray in at all. In the final, he started off in similar fashion but was more nervous and started missing shots he should have put away. Djokovic was obviously in his head in a way that Murray wasn't. Djokovic remained in his head for every subsequent final they played.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
He did what he could. Federer we saw in the final most likely wins those two sets to go up 2-0 vs Murray. Does he lose from there? I don't think so. The 3rd set wasn't really bad from Fred anyway, it's only in the 4th he got pasted.
 
He served monstrously against Murray, but was probably a tad sharper against Novak from the ground.

So Fed likely splits the sets 6-7 7-6 against Djoko, having less BPs and easier service games and it goes the same way in the 3rd and 4th
 

nevermind

Rookie
Only slightly worse. He played wonderful the whole tournament. Destroyed, schooled peak Murray in front of the British crowd. He just faced an invincible wall in the final in his statistically best season, and probably the best season anyone has ever had on ATP tour.
 

Zardoz7/12

Hall of Fame
People make out Murray was a mug, he wasn't especially in 2015 when he regained that form which he lost in 2014.

Federer made Murray look so ordinary it was unbelievable, rewind 2 years Murray straight setted Djokovic in the Final of Wimbledon which showed his grass pedigree.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
I hear so many people, especially Federer fans, claiming that Federer played significantly worse in the final against Djokovic than he did in the semi-final against Murray in Wimbledon 2015.
But is this really true or did he just look weaker because he faced a stronger opponent?
It's hard to measure, as it's not something like bowling, golf, track or swimming, where you receive an objective score or time. Maybe, Fed wasn't quite as sharp in the final but most of that was caused by his fairly good opponent.

But let's forget the names involved, as fans of all players do this. How the heck is it a strong, or even worthy, argument to say, " Meh, your player (X ) wasn't so great, it's just that my player (Y) played poorly".

I see variations of this all the time.

Two easy counters:
Maybe, X made Y look mediocre.
How is not playing well a good thing?
 
Fed was playing his peak tennis in 2015 Wimbledon even he admitted it lol
Yeah I agree for the most part. I think he was nearly as good as his 2006/2007 form in that final, although the only things he was worse at were his stamina and forehand. But as for the stamina part, maybe it was more mental rather than physical. I think that once he found himself down 2 sets to one (and upon realizing that had he not played out of his mind in the 2nd set tiebreak, he would've been straight setted for the first time since 2003), he gave up hope. But in the 2006 and 2007 Wimbledon finals, he was never trailing Nadal, in fact, he was leading 2-0 and 2-1 in sets respectively, so he had no reason to lose confidence.
In the 2015 final, he played extremely well in the first two sets and even until the 3rd set, I think he was still playing up to his standards. But in the 4th set, his level did drop by quite a lot. I am a fan of both Roger and Novak and honestly, I find that the 2015 Wimbledon final gets underrated a lot.
Either way, I think 2015 Federer would crush 2023 Alcaraz at Wimbledon.
 

buscemi

Hall of Fame
Biggest difference was the serve. Federer had a first serve percentage of 76% in the SF, getting 69/91 first serves in. He had one double fault, double faulting on just over 1% of his serves (1/91).

In the final, Federer had a first serve percentage of 67%, getting 91/141 first serves in. He had three doubles faults, double faulting on just over 2% of his serves (3/141).

Breaking it down, in the first set of the final, when Federer was up a break at 4-2, he only got 3/6 (50%) first serves in, getting broken at 30-40. He went on to lose the tiebreaker.

In the third set of the final, at 1-1, Federer got 3/8 (37.5%) first serves in and was broken for the only break of a 6-4 set.
 
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martinezownsclay

Hall of Fame
Most definitely. Federer was an absolute serve-bot in the semi-final. Never let Murray in at all. In the final, he started off in similar fashion but was more nervous and started missing shots he should have put away. Djokovic was obviously in his head in a way that Murray wasn't. Djokovic remained in his head for every subsequent final they played.

Losing match points in the 2010 and 2011 US Open semis, particularly 2011, likely had an impact on the outcome of many of their future slam matches IMO.

Likewise if Murray had been able to win the 2012 Wimbledon final which was a deceptively close match, he probably has somewhat more chance vs Federer in future big matches.
 
Losing match points in the 2010 and 2011 US Open semis, particularly 2011, likely had an impact on the outcome of many of their future slam matches IMO.

Likewise if Murray had been able to win the 2012 Wimbledon final which was a deceptively close match, he probably has somewhat more chance vs Federer in future big matches.
Murray did beat fed at olympics on grass shortly after though.
 

JasonZ

Hall of Fame
he served worse in the final. but that doesnt mean he served bad in the final. his serving in the semis was just one of his greatest serving performances, maybe the greatest.
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Yes to both. But Fed's issue by that point was clearly mental as with Nadal. My greatest choker thread addressed this big lacking for Fed. A great front-runner not so great in contested situations.

He should have won the first set.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Probably mental.
Fed and Djokovic were actually about even on the mental side of things that match.

It was more so a case of the semifinal just being an absolutely crazy, lightning-in-a-bottle serving performance that would have been extremely difficult to replicate.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Yes to both. But Fed's issue by that point was clearly mental as with Nadal. My greatest choker thread addressed this big lacking for Fed. A great front-runner not so great in contested situations.

He should have won the first set.
It wasn't just mental, it clearly became physical too considering the matches in 2015-2016 weren't particularly close. With Nadal at least he could play 5 setters.
 

Holmes

Hall of Fame
Fed and Djokovic were actually about even on the mental side of things that match.

It was more so a case of the semifinal just being an absolutely crazy, lightning-in-a-bottle serving performance that would have been extremely difficult to replicate.
I don't know if there's a statistic (other than perhaps BP converted or MP/SP converted) that can really quantify mental condition, but intuitively I'll say I felt Roger was almost always dealing with a greater level of anxiety than Novak. He felt much more fragile, and I always felt it was because he knew he was dealing with someone who he couldn't get many free points off of.
 

Hawks9451

Semi-Pro
You can't think about the serve in a vacuum. Better returns put more pressure on the server, make them work harder, fail more. Big problem playing Djokovic is you can't hit filler serves to round out a game. Every serve has to be at least advantageous, and that adds a lot of stress that doesn't show purely in return percentages.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
Just rewatched the final highlights. Federer always looked rushed because 1. He was standing so close to the baseline and 2. Djokovic depth was incredible, off his ground strokes + return.

You never saw peak Federer hog the baseline like that, he’d often stand a bit further back and unload on his shots, especially the inside out FHs.

Whenever he received a short ball, his FH looked ok in this match, I don’t understand why he wouldn’t stand further back give himself time to hit a better shot. Perhaps he was too slow by then, aged 34.
 
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