Djokovic vs Nadal - career achievements so far

Tenacity

Tenacity

Hall of Fame
Now that season is over.

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Total titles count is 91 - 92
 
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RS

RS

Bionic Poster
RF-18 said:
His career is too much for Nadal. I don’t understand the discussion between them. Djokovic is that much more successful. That is just incredible numbers and achievements across the board, he knocks him out the park.
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How many more slams does Nadal need to rank ahead for you?
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
The pandemic really put a damper on things for Djokovic. He essentially missed an opportunity at 3 Slams because of it and if there was never a pandemic, that wouldn't have happened. It could look even more different for him right now if that wasn't the case.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
NoleFam said:
The pandemic really put a damper on things for Djokovic. He essentially missed an opportunity at 3 Slams because of it and if there was never a pandemic, that wouldn't have happened. It could look even more different for him right now if that wasn't the case.
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I think he's also lucky to be able to vulture across a weak generation of players. Nobody since Andy Murray's rise in 2008 has come about since then with any real consistency. Del Potro was the other who came about that same year but injuries did him in.
I think Casper Ruud making two major finals and the ATP finals is very telling of the quality of men's tennis today. While there is good quality talent at the top with Medvedev, Zverev, and Alcaraz, a lot more was/is expected of them by this stage. Zverev especially has not achieved anywhere close to his ability and we've seen what he can do to Djokovic when he's in the zone (Olympics and ATP Finals twice)
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Mike Sams said:
I think he's also lucky to be able to vulture across a weak generation of players. Nobody since Andy Murray's rise in 2008 has come about since then with any real consistency. Del Potro was the other who came about that same year but injuries did him in.
I think Casper Ruud making two major finals and the ATP finals is very telling of the quality of men's tennis today. While there is good quality talent at the top with Medvedev, Zverev, and Alcaraz, a lot more was/is expected of them by this stage. Zverev especially has not achieved anywhere close to his ability and we've seen what he can do to Djokovic when he's in the zone (Olympics and ATP Finals twice)
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I would say 3 Slams being missed while you're in form is anything but luck. Yea the field is weaker but you still have to go out there and win the matches. Djokovic goes out there and beats the players to win and is not dependent on the draw or someone being out of the draw to win. To me that is luck.

Ruud arguably wouldn't have even made the final if Djokovic played the USO. The ATP finals was missing Alcaraz, Zverev and Rune was pretty close to qualifying and was on a roll, so I don't think the ATP finals was a true representation of the game right now.
 
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itrium84

itrium84

Hall of Fame
RS said:
How many more slams does Nadal need to rank ahead for you?
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With 23-20, I would put him ahead of Federer. Right now with 22-20, it's pretty unclear, but I still consider Fed's career greater.
24-21 would put him in the same ballpark with Novak, and with 25-21 Rafa would have strong argument for GOAThood.
Its all because Rafa never reached Fed/Djok no1 record levels + their peak tour domination levels + his career is not near as complete as Novak's is.
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
itrium84 said:
With 23-20, I would put him ahead of Federer. Right now with 22-20, it's pretty unclear, but I still consider Fed's career greater.
24-21 would put him in the same ballpark with Novak, and with 25-21 Rafa would have strong argument for GOAThood.
Its all because Rafa never reached Fed/Djok no1 record levels + their peak tour domination levels + his career is not near as complete as Novak's is.
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So for Nadal to lock being better he needs 5 more slams?
 
S

Sampras-Bruguera 1993

Legend
Unless Nadal gets. 3-5 slam lead to end their careers I don’t know how anyone can put Nadal over Djoker for GOAT
In nadals defense though, he did spend alot
Of time injured, especially, during his peak years like 2009. A lot of numbers advantage DO a come down to health for djokovic as well as Fed too . What would Fed and djoker have accomplished if you smacked them upside the head with injuries during their peak years?

But yea Djokovic is clearly the best by the numbers at this point in time. Not debatable
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
itrium84 said:
With 23-20, I would put him ahead of Federer. Right now with 22-20, it's pretty unclear, but I still consider Fed's career greater.
24-21 would put him in the same ballpark with Novak, and with 25-21 Rafa would have strong argument for GOAThood.
Its all because Rafa never reached Fed/Djok no1 record levels + their peak tour domination levels + his career is not near as complete as Novak's is.
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Lol isn't it great how you don't make the rules :D
 
WeekendTennisHack

WeekendTennisHack

Hall of Fame
NoleFam said:
The pandemic really put a damper on things for Djokovic. He essentially missed an opportunity at 3 Slams because of it and if there was never a pandemic, that wouldn't have happened. It could look even more different for him right now if that wasn't the case.
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Sure but he could have broken a leg at one of those missed slams and be out for the 2 years after.
 
B

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
In the end all Nadal has is one extra slam, one extra title, slam H2H and Olympic gold. Very tough to find arguments here for him, other than the lead in slam count, all other stuff is basically useless. Novak on the other hand leads a lot of important categories sometimes by huge margins. For me it is Novak > Nadal at this point. Even the total slam number stat would most likely look different if not for Wimbly 2020 and AO 2022, and this is Nadal’s only trump card.
 
itrium84

itrium84

Hall of Fame
RS said:
So for Nadal to lock being better he needs 5 more slams?
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4, with 2 or 3 non-RG GS titles.
The thing is Rafa lacks so much in big titles, no1 weeks/years, peak domination and completeness categories vs Novak, that it's really hard to neutralize this huge difference with few RG titles.
If he could get 300+ weeks and 6 years no1 with zero GS titles, that would be worth more than 4 new RG titles.
1 YEC title would be worth more than 1 RG title for Rafa in GOAT race.
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
itrium84 said:
4, with 2 or 3 non-RG GS titles.
The thing is Rafa lacks so much in big titles, no1 weeks/years, peak domination and completeness categories vs Novak, that it's really hard to neutralize this huge difference with few RG titles.
If he could get 300+ weeks and 6 years no1 with zero GS titles, that would be worth more than 4 new RG titles.
1 YEC title would be worth more than 1 RG title for Rafa in GOAT race.
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No, it wouldn't. And you know it very well.
As for non-clay titles, well, he won AO this year, right? Yet all we hear from haters is bashing.
 
M

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
StrongRule said:
No, it wouldn't. And you know it very well.
As for non-clay titles, well, he won AO this year, right? Yet all we hear from haters is bashing.
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When Federer won his last 3 slams to push his total to 20, everyone sane back then said he is a clear goat and here we are 4 years later and he is barely in conversation.
Point of the story, its too early to say anything. Funny thing both Djoko and Rafa have a shot at CYGS next year if they win AO and stay healthy.
 
duaneeo

duaneeo

Legend
Milanez82 said:
When Federer won his last 3 slams to push his total to 20, everyone sane back then said he is a clear goat and here we are 4 years later and he is barely in conversation.
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This is a Djokovic vs Nadal thread, and even here Federer is brought into the conversation.
 
itrium84

itrium84

Hall of Fame
StrongRule said:
No, it wouldn't. And you know it very well.
As for non-clay titles, well, he won AO this year, right? Yet all we hear from haters is bashing.
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I'm not hating or bashing, his 2xCGS is one of the greatest accomplishments tennis player can make. Although his career is one of the most complete in tennis history, he is still significantly behind Novak in that regard.
YEC title would bring him closer to Novak in GOAT race than RG title, he is already the clay god but his indoor resume is below ATG.

If you believe GOAT race and slam race are the same thing, then we can discard 70% of their careers and proclaim Margaret Court GOAT of woman tennis?
 
Biotic

Biotic

Hall of Fame
StrongRule said:
No, it wouldn't. And you know it very well.
As for non-clay titles, well, he won AO this year, right? Yet all we hear from haters is bashing.
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Right? Wrong.

He didn't win anything, he mega-vultured the goddamn thing.

Ughhh. Makes me sick to my stomach seeing his ugly paws desecrating that cup even for a second. Decades of sweat and tears from well deserved winners equalized with that? Disgusting. :sick:
 
Incognito

Incognito

Legend
Biotic said:
Right? Wrong.

He didn't win anything, he mega-vultured the goddamn thing.

Ughhh. Makes me sick to my stomach seeing his ugly paws desecrating that cup even for a second. Decades of sweat and tears from well deserved winners equalized with that? Disgusting. :sick:
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you make it sound as if Nadal was a first time finalist there.:rolleyes:
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
WeekendTennisHack said:
Kinda stupid, given that golden slam is because of the presence of Olympic gold, whereas there is no such thing for Master's.
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I always thought career platinum Masters would have been a better name for it tbh.
WeekendTennisHack said:
Sure but he could have broken a leg at one of those missed slams and be out for the 2 years after.
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Well can't predict injuries, and they are always possible, but only saying 3 missed opportunities is definitely significant.
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Biotic said:
Right? Wrong.

He didn't win anything, he mega-vultured the goddamn thing.

Ughhh. Makes me sick to my stomach seeing his ugly paws desecrating that cup even for a second. Decades of sweat and tears from well deserved winners equalized with that? Disgusting. :sick:
Click to expand...

Do you feel the same way about RG16? Oh yeah nah, that's a legit RG title isn't it... he had to beat Muzzah in the final :-D

Sleep well citizen of the Bosnian Pyramids...
 
B

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
Biotic said:
Right? Wrong.

He didn't win anything, he mega-vultured the goddamn thing.

Ughhh. Makes me sick to my stomach seeing his ugly paws desecrating that cup even for a second. Decades of sweat and tears from well deserved winners equalized with that? Disgusting. :sick:
Click to expand...
Lol, hope for your mental health that this is sarcasm. How the **** can you get so much hate for a guy you never met.
 
Incognito

Incognito

Legend
itrium84 said:
With 23-20, I would put him ahead of Federer. Right now with 22-20, it's pretty unclear, but I still consider Fed's career greater.
24-21 would put him in the same ballpark with Novak, and with 25-21 Rafa would have strong argument for GOAThood.
Its all because Rafa never reached Fed/Djok no1 record levels + their peak tour domination levels + his career is not near as complete as Novak's is.
Click to expand...

So Rios has a greater career than ivanisevic?
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Biotic said:
Right? Wrong.

He didn't win anything, he mega-vultured the goddamn thing.

Ughhh. Makes me sick to my stomach seeing his ugly paws desecrating that cup even for a second. Decades of sweat and tears from well deserved winners equalized with that? Disgusting. :sick:
Click to expand...

:love:
 
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