Do weeks as no. 1 REALLY matter?

[Nathaniel_Near]

Nadal would simply have achieved only slightly less than Federer in terms of career achievements but in a much shorter span of time and in a more dazzling time-frame (Federer playing much longer but only being marginally ahead overall in your hypothetical), therefore I wouldn't care if Nadal suddenly retired rather than carrying on 4 more years reaching Slam finals and losing them to add to his achievements even further and win more 1000 titles, I'd just feel in my heart that he's simply the best ever.

 

[TMF]

Calendar slam ?

Why discuss something that is improbable to happen.

 

[Kenshin]

but suppose nadal really wins the next 4 and promptly retires. and suppose fed continues 3 years more, never winning another gs but perhaps made a couple of finals. suppose nadal kept his MS title lead.

would u still really regard fed as the greater player in terms of career achievements?

It depends. Its not that clear cut as you think. In your scenario, Federer will still have his many achievements over Nadal, and Rafa will have the head-to-head plus his unquie achievements over Roger. I believe people's opinion's will differ which player to choose on what they value besides the tally of the grandslams.

 

[objectivity]

No. You asked would he have the greater career achievements. Federer would have the same amount of Slams, more titles, more finals, less masters, more YEC wins, more YE#1 ''titles''. Federer carrying on for 3 years and reaching Slam finals but losing is still adding to his career achievements as would the extra titles that he probably should be winning in that time-frame.

The point is that I would not consider Nadal to have the greater ''career achievements'' but would definitely see him as the ''greater player''.

no, nadal would have 18 if he wins the next 4 GS in a row, with a calendar year slam.

i think that is simply the rarest of rare tennis feats -- we have to give this hypothetical nadal the GOAT title. (if there is one).

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

If Nadal did go on to win the Grand Slam next year, he will be heralded as the greatest of his era and in the minds of most will have surpassed Federer. At least, that would be the popular perception outside of these boards, but I think even this board would be swayed.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

no, nadal would have 18 if he wins the next 4 GS in a row, with a calendar year slam.

i think that is simply the rarest of rare tennis feats -- we have to give this hypothetical nadal the GOAT title. (if there is one).

One more then, my whole point stands unaltered other than I'll edit the mistake in the post.

 

[objectivity]

If Nadal did go on to win the Grand Slam next year, he will be heralded as the greatest of his era and in the minds of most will have surpassed Federer. At least, that would be the popular perception outside of these boards, but I think even this board would be swayed.

well judging by the responses so far, i don't think so... lol... djokovic2011 already stated with no ambiguity "NO".

 

[Vcore89]

Weeks at being number one matters more than being YE#1.

Slam titles won matters more than being YE#1.

Paper number one (as YE#1) is not to be compared to a slam title.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

well judging by the responses so far, i don't think so... lol... djokovic2011 already stated with no ambiguity "NO".

Yeah well they say that now, but if it actually happened...

 

[tennisaddict]

no, nadal would have 18 if he wins the next 4 GS in a row, with a calendar year slam.

i think that is simply the rarest of rare tennis feats -- we have to give this hypothetical nadal the GOAT title. (if there is one).

If Nadal has a chance to win a calendar slam, then Fed has a chance to win 4 majors.

Let us not go to extremes in hypotheticals.

 

[objectivity]

Yeah well they say that now, but if it actually happened...

i think he means it. and the way to rationalize it when that happens is "non prime / old man Fed", "look wtf man, even cilic is winning GS, how strong can this era be?!" , "surface homogenization favoring ugly topspin", "time cheating!!!!! WTF????!!" , "yay! TEAM Nadal won!"... take your pick.

 

[ibbi]

Of course they matter. I wouldn't say that weeks atop the rankings are indicative of greatness by themselves. They're a sign of consistency and quality, but if you're number 1 and not winning slams the former fact is not going to gloss over the latter one, and is absolutely no substitute for it.

 

[tennisaddict]

i think he means it. and the way to rationalize it when that happens is "non prime / old man Fed", "look wtf man, even cilic is winning GS, how strong can this era be?!" , "surface homogenization favoring ugly topspin", "time cheating!!!!! WTF????!!" , "yay! TEAM Nadal won!"... take your pick.

just like how Fed's haters now say " '23-10', '2003-07 weak era' , 'Chokerer' '.

 

[Revenant]

If a player with just 1/3 the total GS titles as another player, can spend more weeks as no.1 than him, how much do weeks as no. 1 really matter?!

hewitt has 2 GS, while edberg has 6. yet hewitt has spent 8 more weeks as no. 1 than edberg.

doesn't this show something?

Can't you the same about head-to-head? Safin is 2-7 against Santoro. And yet, Safin has 2 Slams and Santoro has 0.

If weeks at #1 mean nothing, so does head-to-head.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

Maybe it's because of how rudely shunned he was having 20 seconds to speak during the trophy ceremony. Yet we gave 30 plugs to all the sponsors overkill.

Quite right, it was an absolute disgrace. They only grudgingly let him say a few words in Spanish. Good old gringos eh!? The MC should have been sent back to his retirement home.

 

[Djokovic2011]

well judging by the responses so far, i don't think so... lol... djokovic2011 already stated with no ambiguity "NO".

Actually I never said "NO", I said "probably". You obviously didn't read my post properly.

 

[objectivity]

Can't you the same about head-to-head? Safin is 2-7 against Santoro. And yet, Safin has 2 Slams and Santoro has 0.

If weeks at #1 mean nothing, so does head-to-head.

agreed. your point?

 

[Revenant]

agreed. your point?

Just clarifying. I'm glad you agree that head-to-head is as valuable, or valueless, as weeks at #1.

 

[tennisaddict]

Just clarifying. I'm glad you agree that head-to-head is as valuable, or valueless, as weeks at #1.

I dont know about that. Isnt Wozniacki more famous than Jankovic ?

Jankovic probably has more wins against top players than Wozniacki, yet Wozniacki is the one who is in the limelight.

 

[HRB]

Caroline Wozniacki...enough said..in the end she'll be remembered more as the cute blond, with the Kermit the Frog voice, who was Serena's buddy and the Leprechaun's Girlfriend.:twisted:

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

It matters but not as much as slams... Titles are what really matters, specially the grand Slams. After all the points and ranking are consequence of winning important titles and not the other way around.

 

[HRB]

I dont know about that. Isnt Wozniacki more famous than Jankovic ?

Jankovic probably has more wins against top players than Wozniacki, yet Wozniacki is the one who is in the limelight.

Seriously, this is confusing to you? Do you need glasses, or are you confused by how the world works? Not many photo shoots or modeling gigs being thrown JJ's way...I think you can figure that out!

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

Caroline Wozniacki...enough said..in the end she'll be remembered more as the cute blond, with the Kermit the Frog voice, who was Serena's buddy and the Leprechaun's Girlfriend.:twisted:

Yes, I frankly dont understand what that nice blond saw in that ugly brit :lol:

 

[sbengte]

off topic, but if only Boris had won the 1990 Wimbledon final. that to me, is still the most bitter moment ever as a tennis fan. i remember crying. lol.

How the same sporting moment can be remembered by two people for different reasons.
Wimbledon '90 is my sweetest , happiest ever tennis memory from childhood (or all time, for that matter). I remember how my TV broadcast of the match stopped for the scheduled news telecast in the fifth set when Becker was up a break. My dad who was rooting for Becker was telling me there is no way Edberg is coming back from down a break in the fifth. We had to wait for the last segment of the news to find out the result ! Oh boy ! I still remember how i screamed and jumped with joy

 

[Vensai]

They matter, perhaps not as much as Grand slams, but they're still valued.

 

[Feather]

How the same sporting moment can be remembered by two people for different reasons.
Wimbledon '90 is my sweetest , happiest ever tennis memory from childhood (or all time, for that matter). I remember how my TV broadcast of the match stopped for the scheduled news telecast in the fifth set when Becker was up a break. My dad who was rooting for Becker was telling me there is no way Edberg is coming back from down a break in the fifth. We had to wait for the last segment of the news to find out the result ! Oh boy ! I still remember how i screamed and jumped with joy

I was in school hostel. I couldn't watch the match. I kept on wondering whether he won or not. There was no current in the building late night. So nobody put news. Those days in India, we had only national channels. It was the 90s. So I slept nervously. I got up and rushed to the reading room the next day. And my heart lept with joy when I saw the headlines that Stefan Edberg won the Wimbledon final. I used to be a crazy fan of Stefan in the late 80s and early 90s..

Grace, thy name is Stefan Edberg

 

[jg153040]

I wonder what Nadal fans would say if Nadal had 400 weeks nr.1.

Yeah, that's right. So, don't be hypocritical.

Also I remember what panic Nadal fans were in arguing how Rafa was real nr.1 in 2013.

Millions of threads, how rankings is big deal and Rafa was year end nr.1.

So, clearly rankings matter to you. Probably even more than us Fed fans. Fed has tons of other records, so we can pick and choose.

Nadal fans don't have much, so they need to deflate Fed's records. And emotional bias is the real reason for such threads.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I wonder what Nadal fans would say if Nadal had 400 weeks nr.1.

Yeah, that's right. So, don't be hypocritical.

Once a legendary poster from the VB said that one achievement becomes important, when Nadal does it, so I guess you are spot on.

 

[jg153040]

Once a legendary poster from the VB said that one achievement becomes important, when Nadal does it, so I guess you are spot on.

Yeah. Unfortunately I'm spot on. Sad times I wish people used their heads more.

Let's check TW history. Olympics and Davis cup are such big deal now.
WTF is just an expo...until Rafa wins it. Then it will be: Rafa won WTF, Rafa the goat, he has all the titles.

h2h is now the next best thing. Rankings were very important in 2013 vs Djokovic. Masters are huge now, but not when Djokovic leads masters h2h vs Rafa.

That's why some posters and threads like this have zero credibility to me. People are just making stuff up.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Yeah. Unfortunately I'm spot on. Sad times I wish people used their heads more.

Let's check TW history. Olympics and Davis cup are such big deal now.
WTF is just an expo...until Rafa wins it. Then it will be: Rafa won WTF, Rafa the goat, he has all the titles.

h2h is now the next best thing. Rankings were very important in 2013 vs Djokovic. Masters are huge now, but not when Djokovic leads masters h2h vs Rafa.

That's why some posters and threads like this have zero credibility to me. People are just making stuff up.

The good thing about having an extensive collection of the most exhilarating posts, made from the members of the ************* is, that I can use them, to steer the discussion with other members of that exquisite group.

So, let us see, what the great *** thought about the OG:

“I never said the Gold Medal was more valuable than 6 WTFs. I said the Gold Medal is valuable now because Nadal has it. If Nadal didn't have it, it wouldn't be such a big deal.”

:mrgreen: .......

 

[Russeljones]

If a player with just 1/3 the total GS titles as another player, can spend more weeks as no.1 than him, how much do weeks as no. 1 really matter?!

hewitt has 2 GS, while edberg has 6. yet hewitt has spent 8 more weeks as no. 1 than edberg.

doesn't this show something?

No stat where Federer leads matters. Happy now?

 

[jg153040]

Yeah, tennis_hands, exactly. The less records your player has, the more delusional you have to be to justify the lack of them.

This is universal TW law .

So, of course fans with 17 and 302 weeks will be less delusional. We don't need it

 

[vernonbc]

I have to laugh at the Federer fans. A couple of years ago their famous retort to any suggestion that Nadal was as good as or better than Federer was 17>12. Always with the 17>12 or 11 or 13 or whatever the number of Rafa slams was. Now that he's getting closer to Fed, they're getting mighty scared and are throwing in all sorts of other qualifications like weeks at #1 or something. Never mind that in their lala land it doesn't matter who won the most matches between them, the h2h doesn't count but all these other lesser achievements do. They're getting rattled.

 

[jg153040]

I have to laugh at the Federer fans. A couple of years ago their famous retort to any suggestion that Nadal was as good as or better than Federer was 17>12. Always with the 17>12 or 11 or 13 or whatever the number of Rafa slams was. Now that he's getting closer to Fed, they're getting mighty scared and are throwing in all sorts of other qualifications like weeks at #1 or something. Never mind that in their lala land it doesn't matter who won the most matches between them, the h2h doesn't count but all these other lesser achievements do. They're getting rattled.

No, I laugh at Nadal fans. It was Nadal fan who started this thread. Insecure, because he knows Rafa will never reach 302 weeks.

So, of course to you records don't matter. You have to invent selective h2h reasoning and circularity to use the h2h.

If Rafa has positive h2h vs the goat, then Rafa is the goat. Doesn't work.

But, if Rafa is the goat, then having positive h2h vs Fed doesn't help him, since Fed is not the goat and Rafa's goat claim is based on h2h.

It's a logical fallacy and doesn't work. But Fed is the goat, without the need to use any logical fallacies or inflating his stats.

First clue should be why Rafa is not the goat, the need to use fallacies and inflating his stats to make a case for him. And this is the real truth, and you guys are afraid, cuz you based your entire life on this and you are scared if you are wrong.

 

[Magnetite]

Being the best tennis player in the world at any given point in time means absolutely nothing.

I mean who really cares? It's not like these guys have been training all their lives to achieve it, and have been judged by themselves, and by others, according to a ranking system.

May as well just get rid of it, and randomly pick seeds for majors from an old boot.

 

[jg153040]

Being the best tennis player in the world at any given point in time means absolutely nothing.

I mean who really cares? It's not like these guys have been training all their lives to achieve it, and have been judged by themselves, and by others, according to a ranking system.

May as well just get rid of it, and randomly pick seeds for majors from an old boot.

You do realize, that winning a major is any given point in time.

You aren't best entire year if you win a major. Just 2 weeks. So, your argument falls apart.

 

[NatF]

Being at the top of the top is huge. Look at the number of year end #1's or even #1 players compared to major winners.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I have to laugh at the Federer fans. A couple of years ago their famous retort to any suggestion that Nadal was as good as or better than Federer was 17>12. Always with the 17>12 or 11 or 13 or whatever the number of Rafa slams was. Now that he's getting closer to Fed, they're getting mighty scared and are throwing in all sorts of other qualifications like weeks at #1 or something. Never mind that in their lala land it doesn't matter who won the most matches between them, the h2h doesn't count but all these other lesser achievements do. They're getting rattled.

/Looks who started this thread
/smiles
/sends soothing music to calm down the entire *************

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwduRBXbm2o

 

[objectivity]

No stat where Federer leads matters. Happy now?

if this isn't defensive and obtuse, i don't know what is.

 

[firepanda]

No, it's a system meant for the entire tour. A different system, with more weighting for slams, is needed when comparing potential GOATs.

 

[Magnetite]

You do realize, that winning a major is any given point in time.

You aren't best entire year if you win a major. Just 2 weeks. So, your argument falls apart.

Ummmm .. maybe you are ESL (English as a second language).

My post is EXTREMELY SARCASTIC.

Of course being #1 matters ..

 

[D.Nalby12]

If a player with just 1/3 the total GS titles as another player, can spend more weeks as no.1 than him, how much do weeks as no. 1 really matter?!

hewitt has 2 GS, while edberg has 6. yet hewitt has spent 8 more weeks as no. 1 than edberg.

doesn't this show something?

I could see another trolling attempt from guy who believes Big serve, low slices suits for clay more.

Federer and Djokovic's best surface is clay

Weeks at No 1 don't matter.

What's next?? Barcelona and Monte Carlo matters most deciding greats?? How can fall further shooting everything down that other greats achieved and hyping Nadal's clay achievements?

Not insecure here but you broke all records for breaking facts and stats favouring your fav.

 

[Snaab]

Of course it matters. In fact, it matters a lot.
Although, the ranking system in the 70s was flawed and Connors was able to steal a year or two from Borg.

 

[jg153040]

Ummmm .. maybe you are ESL (English as a second language).

My post is EXTREMELY SARCASTIC.

Of course being #1 matters ..

Sorry, I didn't get that. And usually I get sarcasm right.

Because some Nadal fans actually say stuff like that and are serious.

I guess I'm not familiar with your posting style or who's fan you are to make the correct judgement.

 

[DRII]

not surprised the mods got rid of the Guardian article thread comparing Federer to Nadal

it was just too much for TT!

 

[Deleted member 77403]

not surprised the mods got rid of the Guardian article thread comparing Federer to Nadal

it was just too much for TT!

Because it was the same recycled garbage about supposed GOATs again.

 

[jg153040]

not surprised the mods got rid of the Guardian article thread comparing Federer to Nadal

it was just too much for TT!

TW servers can't handle goat threads any more .

 

[Deleted member 77403]

No, I laugh at Nadal fans. It was Nadal fan who started this thread. Insecure, because he knows Rafa will never reach 302 weeks.

So, of course to you records don't matter. You have to invent selective h2h reasoning and circularity to use the h2h.

If Rafa has positive h2h vs the goat, then Rafa is the goat. Doesn't work.

But, if Rafa is the goat, then having positive h2h vs Fed doesn't help him, since Fed is not the goat and Rafa's goat claim is based on h2h.

It's a logical fallacy and doesn't work. But Fed is the goat, without the need to use any logical fallacies or inflating his stats.

First clue should be why Rafa is not the goat, the need to use fallacies and inflating his stats to make a case for him. And this is the real truth, and you guys are afraid, cuz you based your entire life on this and you are scared if you are wrong.

I have to agree with you here. This thread was create by a Nadal fan, NOT a Federer fan.

 

[abmk]

not surprised the mods got rid of the Guardian article thread comparing Federer to Nadal

it was just too much for TT!

and look, we still have you here. Shame !

:twisted:

 

[NatF]

Because it was the same recycled garbage about supposed GOATs again.

I think it was more a certain poster trying to get away with saying, "Federer and Djokovic are better on clay than hard court" then providing no other defense other than "it's my opinion".