kerplunker
Semi-Pro
Does anyone take anything whether its protein, creatine, glutamine, etc. If so what do you take and how old are you?
Does Anyone Here Take Supplements?
- Thread starter kerplunker
- Start date
TaintedWisdom
New User
I take whey protein.
I'm 20 been taking it for 3 years.
No side effects. (Then again is pure protein, no added stuff, so is like eating chicken heheh).
My brother is 25, been taking protein, creatine and NOxplode for 5 years, also no side effect (except he goes to the bathroom a bit more, but thats cause he eating more probably).
I'm 20 been taking it for 3 years.
No side effects. (Then again is pure protein, no added stuff, so is like eating chicken heheh).
My brother is 25, been taking protein, creatine and NOxplode for 5 years, also no side effect (except he goes to the bathroom a bit more, but thats cause he eating more probably).
kerplunker
Semi-Pro
How much whey do you take per day and when? Do you lift?
xtremerunnerars
Hall of Fame
Kerplunker, i run highschool cross country (~50 miles a week) and i lift regularly. I'm not going to try creatine or NOxplode, though i know several kids who use it. Right now, no side effects for them. Cheap cheap cheap creatine a while ago used to destroy the liver, though that's the extent of my reading on creatine. My buddies showed me some newer creatine a while ago that was supposedly better for it.
As for NOxplode and glutamine, the friends i have who take it say the pump is great. They need a lot of just glutamine for the pump, though. I eat pretty clean (was tough to start doing that) so i don't really need much whey. It's nice because obviously i don't have deep pockets to buy my own stuff.
I put 1 scoop of whey in a glass of milk after cross country practice, and one at night.
As for NOxplode and glutamine, the friends i have who take it say the pump is great. They need a lot of just glutamine for the pump, though. I eat pretty clean (was tough to start doing that) so i don't really need much whey. It's nice because obviously i don't have deep pockets to buy my own stuff.
I put 1 scoop of whey in a glass of milk after cross country practice, and one at night.
TaintedWisdom
New User
well I myself dont use creatine or NOxplode (my brother does, but just put it out there to mention some other supplements I know personaly about).
I take 2 scoops of whey every day.
I do lift (for 2-3 years).
Note: Creatine is very safe, AS LONG AS YOU DRINK WATER.
The liver damage reported was by people working out who were going to tourneys and they cut down on water (and take pills to loose water so they look more cut and you can see more definitin) OBVIOUSLY what you dont want to do. Creatine pumps water into your muscle so you want to drink more than the normal dosage of water. The labels are in the back, people just fail to read them. Also keep in mind your body does make creatine on its own and you do get a certain amount from red meats, but taking more on the side just speeds up the process.
Furthermore, creatine does not make you big, you just get more strenght, after you stop taking it, most times you loose some of that strenght with it.
As for noxplode, hehe this stuff is just an energy rush. I dont recomend it to anyone (not even to my brother but he is hardheaded). There hasnt been enough study on Nitric Oxide. As a pre-med and someone who takes a lot of science classes, I know very well this stuff is a bit fishy. Always looking pump has to come at a price (also Nitric oxide is the stuff they add to viagra and similar products heheh).
Conclusion, take protein and thats it. Is 100% safe, whoever doesn't agree with that is simply a moron. Just be sure is pure protein and not some weird stack product which comes with a bunch of other added ingredients.
I take 2 scoops of whey every day.
I do lift (for 2-3 years).
Note: Creatine is very safe, AS LONG AS YOU DRINK WATER.
The liver damage reported was by people working out who were going to tourneys and they cut down on water (and take pills to loose water so they look more cut and you can see more definitin) OBVIOUSLY what you dont want to do. Creatine pumps water into your muscle so you want to drink more than the normal dosage of water. The labels are in the back, people just fail to read them. Also keep in mind your body does make creatine on its own and you do get a certain amount from red meats, but taking more on the side just speeds up the process.
Furthermore, creatine does not make you big, you just get more strenght, after you stop taking it, most times you loose some of that strenght with it.
As for noxplode, hehe this stuff is just an energy rush. I dont recomend it to anyone (not even to my brother but he is hardheaded). There hasnt been enough study on Nitric Oxide. As a pre-med and someone who takes a lot of science classes, I know very well this stuff is a bit fishy. Always looking pump has to come at a price (also Nitric oxide is the stuff they add to viagra and similar products heheh).
Conclusion, take protein and thats it. Is 100% safe, whoever doesn't agree with that is simply a moron. Just be sure is pure protein and not some weird stack product which comes with a bunch of other added ingredients.
ollinger
G.O.A.T.
There are no adequate long-term studies of the safety of creatine. What evidence there is suggests that damage to the liver and microtubules of the kidney could result from creatine use. Your body evolved to consume nutrients in proportion to each other, not to be stressed by large amounts of a compound in relative isolation. Enjoy.
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kerplunker
Semi-Pro
Well, I do take whey protien and some protien bars here and there when I lift (whey after, bars before). But now my dads telling me I shouldn't take all this protein cause its bad for my heart... I've read alot and I've found mixed feelings. Some people are saying it ruins kidneys others are saying take alot...I am very confused on how much protein is to much.
ollinger
G.O.A.T.
As has been stated here before, the American diet is generally very high in protein and there is no health benefit (and possible harm to kidneys) from protein supplements.
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maverick66
Hall of Fame
theres no harm coming from taking to much protein it will just be gotten rid of by ur body. also ive taking glutamine and creatine and didnt really feel like they did to much for me. i take a multi-vitamin, anti-oxidant, and fish oil every day these help as i seem to get less annoying little colds.
Taking too much animal protein can put alot of stress on your kidneys and has been reported in clinical studies to cause kidney damage over an extended period.
Creatine is a complete waste of time. There are no clinical studies published in credible refereed/peer review journals showing it works as described. There have been clinical studies showing an increase in injury from taking creatine.
Supplemental protein can definately be of use provided it has the proper make up to produce a high insulin response.
Creatine is a complete waste of time. There are no clinical studies published in credible refereed/peer review journals showing it works as described. There have been clinical studies showing an increase in injury from taking creatine.
Supplemental protein can definately be of use provided it has the proper make up to produce a high insulin response.
kerplunker
Semi-Pro
What protein supplements do you recommend...I am not planning on taking creatine. Does anyone have information on glutamine? I've read its very good at what its supposed to do if taken properly...
Ano
Hall of Fame
kerplunker said:
Log in to this site : www.leehayward.com . Then click "articles", after that click "Protein myths that just won't die". After reading the article, print it and give it to your father.
The author of that article is William Brink, one of the most knowledgeable experts in the fields of bodybuilding, nutrition, health, fitness & longevity.
IMHO, Optimum Nutrition 100 % Whey Gold Standard is the best whey protein supplement if you consider the quality to price ratio. It contains 24 grams of protein per serving, also it contains 4 grams of glutamine per serving, so you don't need to take additional glutamine supplement.
TaintedWisdom
New User
Virus said:
Animal protein...
Ok so that is chicken, beef, pork, etc...
Protein supplements are WHEY PROTEIN, in other words... MILK.
As for protein being bad, 0%, been enough studies for way to many years.
However, thats the excuse some give to justify why they look like they about to break when they need to gain weight.
I recomend protein to anyone, is the safest supplement you will ever get.
As to why is not FDA approve, thats another story which has to do with money and why less than 1% of all products are out there are FDA approved (has nothing to do with them being bad).
Now creatine as I mentioned before, doesnt have that long of a study but it hasnt been dangerous so far. Could it be sure! anything in excess is dangerous, including water, orange juice, vitamins etc. Yet people spend 1000's a year on vitamins.
Anyways to lay this puppy to rest, PROTEIN IS SAFE PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Now if you have any doubts, google it up and find some solid research done by big groups for years and you will see how protein supplements are more safe than your tap water.
As for glutamine, I dont recomend taking it simply because you're not lifting weights. Also not enough research once again in case you one of those people.
I care a lot about my body, MAYBE TO MUCH. I eat a diet thats beyond good.
(and I dont mean just not eating junk food like soda and mcdonalds etc.) I havent had a flu, cold, or any other health problem (apart from sport injury) as long as I can remember. Is this due to my diet, probably. My point is, I'm not going to take something that I know COULD even possibly harm my body. I could be way bigger by taking tribulus which is in GNC (btw 90% of the stuff at GNC is not safe) or heck even steroids,(people I know have offered the stuff many times) but I dont cause whats the point in killing your self to destroy your body in the end. I believe in protein cause it's safe, my father took it for ages, people have taken it for ages, it has been study DOZENS OF TIMES (do I need to repeat it again?) and is safe PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
If any of you claim is not safe (probably you believe in some myth) then guess what DONT COME OUT YOUR HOUSE cause you are not safe. Dont drink water, or even filtered water cause it may contain viruses (yes filters cant always catch all viruses) and guess what dont wash your mouth cause flouride is actually a poison YET YOU USE IT EVERYDAY and is FDA approved.
Now lets please end the topic here. There no point in arguing or even commenting on something that has BOOKS and 1000's of pages written about, from major companies and indepent groups showing how safe it is.
In case ya want to continue talking, HITLER APPROVES PROTEIN.
Note:If you dont get that last sentance do some research as to why YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO POST ANYMORE.
The END!
Close Curtains
ollinger
G.O.A.T.
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"Anyways to lay this puppy to rest, PROTEIN IS SAFE PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Now if you have any doubts, google it up and find some solid research done by big groups for years and you will see how protein supplements are more safe than your tap water."
I agree with most of you post with exception of this. It's misleading. There simply hasn't been much published research with regard to protein supplementation. I know of only 1 company that has done such research. The main reason is money. The FDA doesn't require supplement companies to perform such research so most companies don't do it because it takes money from their bottom line and honestly we all know they are gonna sell with or without the research.
To answer your question, whey protein is obviously an animal based protein. Soy protein on the other hand would be considered a plant based protein, but then it becomes a whole other argument with GMO vs. Non GMO.
I agree with most of you post with exception of this. It's misleading. There simply hasn't been much published research with regard to protein supplementation. I know of only 1 company that has done such research. The main reason is money. The FDA doesn't require supplement companies to perform such research so most companies don't do it because it takes money from their bottom line and honestly we all know they are gonna sell with or without the research.
To answer your question, whey protein is obviously an animal based protein. Soy protein on the other hand would be considered a plant based protein, but then it becomes a whole other argument with GMO vs. Non GMO.
kerplunker said:
I myself am a Network Engineer and have absolutely no science background or education on this subject other than my own research in search of the best product. My wife on the other hand has a Phd in biology with a minor in chemistry. She worked for the National Cancer Institute and now works as a Patent Examiner specializing in cell signaling and protein synthesis. She mainly deals with patents dealing with genetics. My wife has several papers published in referee/peer review journals, one of which was groundbreaking research on Lyn. Here is the reference.
http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/98/2/343?ck=nck
Here is a paper I wrote with my wifes help a little over a year ago on workout recovery. From my research, this seems to be the protein recovery product with the most research. This doesn't mean nothing else works. I was simply not able to find any other product of this type that had published clinical research in credible peer review or refereed journals. As another person posted, nothing beats a well balanced diet.
The Whole Story
1. The muscle cell is worked out and is tired. It needs glucose and amino acids to recover and build.
2. Insulin is the main muscle building hormone in the body. It opens the “cells door” to let in all of the nutrients the cell needs.
3. Every door needs a door knob (insulin receptor). The knob is chromium.
4. Once the door is opened, a quality mix of glucose, branched chain amino acids, and the rest of the essential amino acids must be available for maximum muscle building, bulk and recovery.
We Need To Thoroughly Understand Three Things: Insulin (door opener), Chromium (door Knob), and the three branched chain amino acids (BCAAs) primary builders.
INSULIN
1. The pancreas needs to be stimulated to produce insulin.
2. The three main stimulators are: (1) Carbohydrates (2) The three BCAAs (Valine, Leucine, and Isoleucine) (3) And the most important ratio of carbohydrate and protein. Divide the carbohydrate in a product by the protein content. A ratio of 2.7 gives excellent insulin stimulation. Look for this ratio in any product you buy.
3. Physique’s unique quantity, quality, and ratio of these stimulators results in maximum production of the primary strength hormone!
CHROMIUM
1. No matter how much insulin (door opener) you have, you need a door knob (chromium) or no entry. The U.S.D.A tells us that 90% of American diets are low in chromium. Athletes use up chromium at a high rate, so they are at extreme risk.
2. There are a number of chromium supplements on the market. All give poor utilization except two. Chromium picolinate is fair, but chromium nicotinate is excellent. Physique is the only drink I have found on the market that contains chromium nicotinate!
HOW INSULIN AND CHROMIUM HELP BUILD MUSCLE
They increase the uptake of amino acids…both in speed and number. They also increase the assembly of amino acids into muscle protein.
From a sports text: “Insulin’s participation in protein synthesis, or anabolism, is not limited to bringing raw material into the muscle cell. It also promotes the assembly of amino acids into protein through its effect on the cell’s genetic material, DNA and RNA (similar to steroids). The net effect of all of this is increased protein available for building muscle tissue. Then combined with resistance exercise, this results in more muscle development and fat loss. Insulin is the body’s primary anabolic hormone, Testosterone, the substance from which anabolic steroids are derived, does have anabolic effects, but they are secondary to those of insulin.”
THE THREE BRANCHED CHAIN AMINO ACIDS (BCAAS) PLUS THE OTHER 6 ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS
1. Do not buy a muscle building product based on the number of grams of protein. Look at the BCAAs: valine, leucine, and isoleucine.
2. The muscle is 35% BCAAs which are broken down rapidly during a workout.
3. After a workout, the muscle is starved for the BCAAs which also pull in the other 6 essential amino acids needed to build muscle and aid in recovery. The other 6 “spare” or protect the BCAAs.
4. In the first three hours after a workout, the BCAAs account for 50% of the total amino acid uptake. That is why you consume Physique immediately after a workout and then again within 2 hours.
5. Physiques amino acid profile is unique. There are 10,000 mg of essential amino acids in a serving. An astounding 44% of these are BCAAs. In know of no other drink with that profile.
From a sports text: “For the athlete, the BCAAs have great promise. They can be used to actually produce better performance. In fact, they are similar to anabolic steroids in their effects on athletic performance, but they have none of the side effects associated with steroids. Besides their tissue sparing properties, they have potent anabolic (building) qualities and they yield metabolic by-products that boost your energy production for long-term sports activities.”
Here is research published in referee/peer review journals proving the product works pretty darn good. The first one I included a summary of the 1st research published. This makes it easy to read and understand. If you try to read most of these types of research without a simple summary or without a degree in biology and chemistry, it's almost impossible.
Physique: Maximizing muscle recovery for serious athletes.
Physique was tested with nine highly trained cyclists. During each of three test periods, athletes rode for two hours with an alternating workload that reflected race-like conditions. Immediately and two hours after every ride, athletes drank one of three drinks: Physique, with its uniqe carbohydrate-protein combination formula (40.5 f protein, 112.5 g carbohydrate);a protein drink reminiscent of the "muscle" drinks popular with body builders(40.5 g protein); and a carbohydrate drink similar to the "carboload" products on market (112.5 g carbohydrate). These were consumed as a 16 ounce beverages.
Results of the study confirmed that the carbohydrate-protein combination of Physique elicited a greater insulin response in the blood than the carbohydrate or protein supplements alone. The greater insulin levels produced by Physique's Protein-carbohydrate formula also led to a greater increase in the rate of muscle energy stored (glycogen) in the four-hour period following exercise than either the carbohydrate or protein supplements alone.
Reference; 1. Zawadzki KM, Yaspelkis III B, Ivy JL.
Carbohydrate-protein complex increases the rate of muscle glycogen storage after exercise.
Journal of Applied Physiol
1992;72:1854-9
Dietary Supplements Affect the Anabolic Hormones after Weight Training Exercise. Chandler, Byrne, Patterson, Ivy. J Appl Physiol 1994;76:839-45.
Pre-Exercise Hypervolemia and Cycle Ergometer Endurance in Men. Greenleaf, Looft-Wilson, Wisherd, McKenzie, Jensen, Whittam. Biology of Sport 1997;14:103-14.
I hope this helps,
Shawn
xtremerunnerars
Hall of Fame
THANK YOU! Let's see you pre-med wannabees fight back now....haha.
Anyways, i'm definitely in the same boat as the poster who mentioned 100% ON Whey gold standard. It's what i have, and it's great stuff. Vanilla+milk is awesome.
Erm.....can anyone else shed light on this chromium thing? I know it's on the periodic table, but that's about it.
Anyways, i'm definitely in the same boat as the poster who mentioned 100% ON Whey gold standard. It's what i have, and it's great stuff. Vanilla+milk is awesome.
Erm.....can anyone else shed light on this chromium thing? I know it's on the periodic table, but that's about it.
Ano
Hall of Fame
Virus said:
Is that true? How about these studies :
- Short-term (5-7 days) and/or extended (7-54 days) creatine supplementation (20-25 grams per day for 5-7 days and 2-25 grams per days thereafter) was reported to not only increase one-repetition maximum lifting strength (14,19) but improve vertical jump performance (7,16), increase work performed during sets of maximal effort muscle contractions (6,14,19,29), enhance single effort and repetitive sprint performance in sprints lasting 6-30 seconds (3,6,8,11,14,19,31,44), improve high intensity exercise performance in events lasting 90-300 seconds (12,33) and increase maximal exercise capacity (26)
- Also numerous articles have been published in reputable scientific journals that support creatine as a safe and very effective sports supplements(8,13,40,41)
References :
3. P.Balsom, et al, "Skeletal Muscle Metabolism During Short Duration High Intensity Exercise: Influence of Creatine Supplementation," Acta Physiol. Scand.154.3(1995) : 303-310
6. R. Birch, et al., :The Influence of Dietary Creatine Supplementation of Performance During Repeated Bouts of Maximal Isokinetic Cycling in Man," Eur. J. Appl. Physiol.69 (1994) : 268-270
7. C. Bosco, et al., " Effect of Oral Creatine Supplementation on Jumping and Running Performance, " Int.J. Sports Med. 18.5 (1997) : 369-372
8. A. Casey, et al., " Creatine Ingestion Favorable Affects Performance and Muscle Metabolism During Maximal Exercise in Humans," Am. J. Physiol.271 (1996) : E31-E37
11. B.Dawson, et al., " Effects of Oral Creatine Loading on Single and Repeated Maximal Short Sprints, "Aust.J. Sci. Med. Sport 27.3 (1995): 56-61
12. C. Earnest, et al., "Effects of Creatine Monohydrate Ingestion on Intermediate Duration Anaerobic Treadmill Running to Exhaustion," J. Str.Cond.Res.11 (1997) : 234-238
13. C. Earnest, et al., "High Performance Capillary Electrophoresis Pure Creatine Monohydrate Reduces Blood Lipids in Men and Women," Clin./Sci.91(1996): 113-118
14. C.Earnest, at al,"The Effects of Creatine Monohydrate Ingestion on Anaerobic Power Indices, Muscular Strength and Body Composition, "Acta Physiol.Scand.153 (1995): 207-209
16. P. Goldberg and P. Bechtel, "Effects of Los Dose Creatine Supplementation on Strength, Speed and Power by Male Athletes," Med.Sco. Sport Exerc. 29 (1997) : S251
19. P.L.Greenhaff, et al., " Influence of Oral Creatine Supplementation of Muscle Torque During Repeated Bouts of Maximal Voluntary Exercise in Man," Clin.Sci84.5 (1993): 565-571
26. I. Jacobs, et al., "Creatine Ingestion Indreases Anaerobic Capacity and Maximum Accumulated Oxigen Deficit," Can.J.Appl.Physiol.22.3 (1997) : 231-243
29. P. Lemon, et al., "Effect of Oral Creatine Supplementation on Energetics During Repeated Maximal Muscle Contraction, " Med. Sci. Sport Exerc.27
(1995): S204
31. M. Prevost, at al " Creatine Supplementation Enhances Intermittent Work performance, " Res.Q.Exerc. Sport 68 (1997) : 233-240
40. K. Vandenberghe, et al., "Long Term Creatine Intake is Beneficial to muscle performance During Resistance Training," J. Appl.Physiol. (in pubication 1997)
41. J.S.Volek, et al., " Creatine Supplementation Enhances Muscular performance During Hight Intensity Resistance Exercise," J. Am. Diet. Assoc.97.7 (1997): 765-770
44. T.N. Ziegenfuss, et al., "Acute Creatine Ingestion: Effects on Muxcle Volume, Anaerobic Power, Fluid Volumes, and Protein Turnover," Med.Sci. Sports Exerc.29 (1997) : S127
kerplunker
Semi-Pro
Thank you so ****ing much...Thats great man, really helpful...I am gonna print that out if you dont mind...Virus said:
chess9
Hall of Fame
Well, Physique is a pretty expensive way to get your protein. If I were a professional athlete I might consider it, but I doubt I'd bite even then. I get the adverts for BioBuilde all the time and have seen the prices. Few of my triathlete buddies take the stuff and the general consensus seems to be that it is just an over-hyped and over-priced protein supplement.
Also, Physique has, what, 21 grams of sugar in a 57 gram serving? (from memory) Seems a bit high....
How do we know the results "value" of taking such expensive protein supplements is worth the cost? Are we so finely tuned that we need to balance protein/carb ingestion so carefully? Seems unlikely, but I'm sure I'm wrong as usual. I was also unaware that chromium deficiency is a major health hazard.
-Robert
Also, Physique has, what, 21 grams of sugar in a 57 gram serving? (from memory) Seems a bit high....
How do we know the results "value" of taking such expensive protein supplements is worth the cost? Are we so finely tuned that we need to balance protein/carb ingestion so carefully? Seems unlikely, but I'm sure I'm wrong as usual. I was also unaware that chromium deficiency is a major health hazard.
-Robert
I don't think there is anything bad with taking whey protein. Personally I don't use it because I have a very good eating habit and get enough healthy proteins out of food.
That being said I do take glucosamine, it's very good for your joints etc...
I also take something called Spirulina (translation is seaweed I believe) which is basically sort of like a multi vitamin but it's 100% natural, no chemicals or anything in it. I also take calcium and magnesium tablets.
That being said I do take glucosamine, it's very good for your joints etc...
I also take something called Spirulina (translation is seaweed I believe) which is basically sort of like a multi vitamin but it's 100% natural, no chemicals or anything in it. I also take calcium and magnesium tablets.
I usually get it for $25.65 a can. "member" price is $27.90 a can. To me that's not expensive for something I know works. The $25.65 is DN price whatever that means. I have no idea how I got the DN pricing, but I'm not gonna complain and I'll keep it until someone finds out and changes it. Generally no one notices much of a difference when taking supplements. I noticed I recover from lifting or heavy exercise very quickly and almost never have soreness no matter how intense the workout. When I was taking other protein supplements, I honestly noticed no difference. Several friends that I used to lift with switched to it as well with the same results. It's no majic bullet, but it's results are noticeable. You won't be able to create the same formula by eating, but I would imagine you can create a pretty good insulin response by mimicing the proper protein to carb balance which would help significantly.
Ano said:
Fantastic response. Many of these are well respected Journals. I would have to have my wife look the entire research abstracts up and read through them, which honestly isn't gonna happen. But it definately helps everyone out when people share their knowledge. Good finds!
Ano
Hall of Fame
Virus said:
Thanks. I just want to sound my opinion that creatine monohydrate is a safe and very effective sports supplement. And many articles that have been published in reputable scientific journals, back up my opinion.
Whey protein also offer numerous positive biological effects to hard training atheletes, including : immune system reinforcement, antioxidant protection, and even possible support of muscle tissue repair and regeneration (1,2,3)
References:
1. G. Bounous, et al., "Immunoenhancing property of dietary whey protein in mice: Role of gluthathione,"Clin. Invest. Med. 12.3 (1989) : 154-161
2. G. Bounous, et al., "The influence of dietary whey protein on tissue glutathione and the diseased of aging, "Clin. Invest. Med 12.6 (1989) : 343-349
3. G.O. Regester, et al., Prospective clinical applications for a growth factor extract from whey:gut disease and wound repair (Chicago, IL: International Whey Conference Session #4,1997)
Ano
Hall of Fame
Oh, by the way I want to inform members of this forum, always buy creatine and other supplement that have been made by reputable company.
I remember a creatine supplement in liquid form. Their Advertisement claims each serving contains 2,000 mg of pure creatine.
Bill Phillips (the owner of EAS), had one of his researchers buy a sample of that product and send it out to an independent laboratory to have it analyzed by high performance liquid chromatography with ultra violet detection (HPLC-UV). On January 7, 1998, the laboratory test revealed each serving of that supplement contained only 19.5 mg of creatine. That's a far cry from the label claim of 2,000 mg per serving.
So, buyer beware!!
I remember a creatine supplement in liquid form. Their Advertisement claims each serving contains 2,000 mg of pure creatine.
Bill Phillips (the owner of EAS), had one of his researchers buy a sample of that product and send it out to an independent laboratory to have it analyzed by high performance liquid chromatography with ultra violet detection (HPLC-UV). On January 7, 1998, the laboratory test revealed each serving of that supplement contained only 19.5 mg of creatine. That's a far cry from the label claim of 2,000 mg per serving.
So, buyer beware!!
kerplunker
Semi-Pro
do you know what brand that was that only had 19.5 mg of creatine?
Ano
Hall of Fame
kerplunker said:
Yes, I do. But I wouldn't tell you what brand that was on this forum. I'm afraid the company will sue me if I tell the brand on this forum.
Email me if you want to know the mentioned creatine brand.
My email address is ryano_tandayu@victoriabank.co.id
Ano
Hall of Fame
ollinger said:
Hello Ollinger, what evidence are you talking about???
Creatine has been blamed for all sorts of effects, from muscle cramps to dehydration, to increased injuries in athletes. However, these effects have been looked at extensively by researchers without a single study reporting side effects among several groups taking creatine for various medical reasons over five years (1,2,3,4)
In some, but not all people, creatine can raise a metabolic byproduct of creatine metabolism known as creatinine. Some people, have mistakenly stated that elevated levels of creatinine could damage the kidneys.
Elevated creatinine is often a blood indicator, not a cause, of kidney dysfunction. That's a very important distinction, and several short and long term studies have found creatine supplements have no ill effects on kidney function of healthy people (5,6)
Bottom line, creatine safety has been extensively researched and is far safer than most over the counter products, including aspirin.
References :
1. Kreider Rb, et al., "Long term creatine supplementation does not significantly affect clinical markers of health in athletes." Mol Cell Biochem 2003 Feb; 244(1-2): 95-104
2. Schiling BK, et al., "Creatine supplementation and health variables: a retrospective study". Med Sci Sports Exerc 2001, Feb; 33(2):183-188
3. Poortmans JR, et al., " Adverse effects of creatine supplementation : fact of fiction?" Sports Med 2000 Sep; 30(3):155-170
4. Terjung RL, et al., "American College of Sports Medicine roundtable. "The physiological and health effects of oral creatine supplementation" Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000 Mar; 32(3) 706-717.
5. Poortmans JR, et al., "long term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes. Med. Sci. Sport. Exerc. 31:1108-1110, 1999
6. Mihic S, et al., "Acute Creatine loading increases fat free mass, but does not affect blood pressure, plasma creatinine or CK activity in men and women". Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000 Feb; 31(2):291-296
erik-the-red
Semi-Pro
I take whey protein, and that's it.
xtremerunnerars
Hall of Fame
All of this recent reading i've been able to on creatine (thanks guys for the study resources, our school library has access to medical journals!!) I'm considering it a lot more than before.
kerplunker
Semi-Pro
well, does anyone know the most popular supplements on tour by any chance...i have heard aggasi is (was) using products by cytosport (company who makes Muscle Milk). I have been told a lot of information on many forums and I am extensively research this topic (supplements to enhance performence + exercise). I am researching this for myself and for friends who are all starting to lift and get bigger. I have found multiple mass gaining workouts and many sports improvement workouts. I have even made my own all natural protein shake using all natural whey protein and the results have been good. Thats for everyones help in this thread...its been very useful...i hope it will continue to feed knowledge! thanks for all ur help so far...
Ano
Hall of Fame
kerplunker said:
Agassi was using Creatine Fuel and other products from Twin Lab in the late nineties and early 2000. I don't know if he still was using that products at the end of his career.
In my opinion supplements that might help your performance in sports are : (provided your basic diet is good enough and you exercising/lifting regularly)
- whey protein
- creatine
- multivitamin minerals & antioxidant
- flax seed oil ( a good source of omega-3)
My recomendation is based from what I have learned and read from the past 20 years.
If someone is having a different opinion, I welcome your opinion because I'm still willing to learn, but please do it intelegently and back up your opinion with some scientific studies or real expert opinion.
Btw, have you log in to www.leehayward.com ??
There are plenty of good articles there, also there are a great forums about training, supplement, nutrition, fat loss etc, and the majority of the members there are really helpful and knowledgeable.
Ano
Hall of Fame
xtremerunnerars said:
Go for it , pal.!!
Mauro di Pasquale MD was asked this question about creatine : "Is Creatine safe and is it effective?"
His Reply : "With our present knowledge about the effectiveness and safety of creatine supplementation, those who won't or don't recommend the use of creatine monohydrate are doing athletes disservice by denying them the opportunity to use a safe nutritional supplement I consider one of the few truly effective alternatives to the use of drugs in sports".
Mauro di Pasquale was a world power lifting athlete, is still a devoted strength trainer and practicing medical doctor. He received his medical training at the University of Toronto. He's certified as a Medical Review Officer and is also an assistant professor at the University of toronto and world renowned expert in the field of performance enhancing drugs and supplements.
But if you use creatine, always buy it from reputable brand, and don't forget to drink plenty of water.
kerplunker said:
I always use Shaklee nutrition products because of 1 very important fact, they back up each and every statement with solid scientific research and they have published over 100 articles in peer review/refereed journals proving their products work quite well. This isn't the norm for most nutrition companies as it's not required by the FDA.
Ano always provides good references to backup his posts and his recommendation in products to take is spot on. Although he recommends Creatine and does have good supporting literature, I cannot give the same recommendation. Creatine while naturally occurring in the human body isn't available in natural form over the counter and I cannot locate any company that provides good published research on their brand of creatine. That's just my decision and my points why I choose not to take it. Also, just because a supplement doesn't have published clinical research doesn't mean it doesn't work. I personally only take products that I know do work because I'm anal and don't like buying nutrition products with a maybe. I'm like that with many other product decisions as well. It's a sickness
Here is a list of what I recommend with supporting references.Whey protein
Physique:
Carbohydrate-Protein Complex Increases the Rate of Muscle Glycogen Storage after Exercise. Zawadzki, Yaspelkis, Ivy. J Appl Physiol 1992;72:1854-9.
Dietary Supplements Affect the Anabolic Hormones after Weight Training Exercise. Chandler, Byrne, Patterson, Ivy. J Appl Physiol 1994;76:839-45.
Pre-Exercise Hypervolemia and Cycle Ergometer Endurance in Men. Greenleaf, Looft-Wilson, Wisherd, McKenzie, Jensen, Whittam. Biology of Sport 1997;14:103-14.
Mulitivitamin
Vita-Lea:
Effects of Calcium and Micronutrients on Premenopausal and Postmenopausal Bone Loss. J Am Med Assoc 1980;244:1915 (abstract).
Effects of Vitamin/Mineral Intervention on Increasing Bone Density of Postmenopausal Women. 4th European Nutrition Conference. The Hague, Netherlands 1983 (abstract).
Some Effects of Vitamin and Mineral Supplementation in Healthy Young Women. Spiller, Pattison, Jensen, Wong, Whittam, Scala. Fed Proc 1985;44:1283 (abstract).
Multivitamin-mineral Supplementation: Effects on Blood Chemistries of College-Age Women. Spiller, Pattison, Jensen, Wong, Whittam, Scala. Acta Vitaminol Enzymol 1985;7:217-22.
Calcium Nutrition and Skeletal and Alveolar Bone Health. Albanese, Lorenze, Edelson . Nutr Rep Int 1985;31:741-55.
Training for Cross-Country Skiing and Iron Status. Haymes, Puhl, Temples. Med Sci Sports Med 1986;18:162-7.
Dietary Supplements. Jensen, Briggs. J Am Med Assoc 1987;258:908-10.
Effect of Age and Fractures on Bone Loss and Calcium Needs of Women 45 to 85+ years of Age. Albanese, Edelson, Lorenze, Wein, Carroll. Nutr Rep Int 1985;31:1093-115.
Homocysteine Lowering in Men and Women with Normal Plasma Homocysteine Levels. Spiller, Bruce, Jensen. J Am Coll Nutr 1998;17:530 (abstract).
Effect of Long-Term Vitamin-Mineral Supplements on Immune Response in Older Healthy Adults. Spiller, Whittam, Bruce, Morse, Chernoff, Jensen. J Am Coll Nutr 1998;17:511 (abstract).
Improvement in Folate Indices in Blood and Seminal Plasma Following Vitamin Supplementation in Smokers and Nonsmokers. Wallock, Tamura, Ames, Johnston, Gretz, Jacob. Experimental Biology 1999:671.10 (abstract).
Omega 3's
Omega 3 Complex:
Marine Lipids and Atherosclerosis: A Review. Davidson, Liebson, Cardiovascular Reviews & Reports. Vol 7, No. 5, May 1986.
Effect of Low Dose Omega-3 Fatty Acids on Plasma Fatty Acids and Lipids. Spiller, Jensen, Scala. Am J Clin Nutr 1987;45:857 (abstract).
Plasma Lipids on Three Levels of Fish Oil Intake in Healthy Human Subjects. Jensen, Spiller, Wookey, Wong, Whittam, Scala. Nutr Rep Int 1988;38:165-72.
Sports Drinks
Shaklee Performance:
The Physiology of Human-Powered Flight. Weiss. Science News 1990;137:140.
The Effects of Sodium: Carbohydrate (Na: Carb) Ratios in Rehydration beverages (RB) on Plasma (PG), Osmolality (PO), Volume (PV), and Subject Tolerance (ST). FASEB J 1990;4:A381 (abstract).
The Daedalus Project: Physiological Problems and Solutions. Nadel, Bussolari. Am Scientist 1988:76:351-60.
Glucose-Electrolyte Ingestion: Influence on Endurance Factors in Highly Trained Female Cyclists. Sirotniak, Foster. Med Sci Sports Exer Suppl 1992;24:S121 (abstract).
Vascular Uptake of Rehydration Fluids in Hypohydrated Men at Rest and Exercise. Greenleaf, Geelen, Jackson et al. NASA Technical Memorandum 1992:1039-42.
Vascular Uptake of Rehydration Fluids in Resting Hypohydrated Men. Greenleaf, Geelen, Saumet et al. FASEB J 1991;5:A1147 (abstract).
Hypervolemia in Men from Drinking Hyperhydration Fluids at Rest and During Exercise. Greenleaf, Looft-Wilson,Wisherd et al. NASA Technical Memorandum 1994:46-57.
Drink Composition and Cycle-Ergometer Endurance in Men: Carbohydrate, Na+, Osmolality. Greenleaf, Looft-Wilson, Wisherd et al. NASA Technical Memorandum 1994:46-50.
CD4+/CD8+ T-Lymphocyte Ratio: Effects of Rehydration Before Exercise in Dehydrated Men. Greenleaf, Jackson, Lawless. Med Sci Sports Exer 1995;27:194-9.
Drinking-Induced Plasma Vasopressin and Norepinephrine Changes in Dehydrated Humans. Geelen, Greenleaf, Keil. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1996;81:2131-35.
Hypervolemia in Men from Fluid Ingestion at Rest and During Exercise. Greenleaf, Looft-Wilson, Wisherd et al. Aviat Space Environ Med 1998;69:374-86.
Gatorade:
Like them or hate them, Gatorade backs up their claims with solid research. Here is a link to their research. It's much easier to navigate the website than post the references.
http://www.gssiweb.com/sportssciencecenter/topic.cfm?id=64&type=research
kerplunker
Semi-Pro
Very good... i like the fact that you have the info on all this, very nice
kerplunker said:
I like the fact that we are seeing alot of references to back up recommendations and advice. Generally you don't see that on message boards. I looked at Cytomax about a year ago and it's make up was strikingly similar to Shaklee's Performance. I would think you should get the same great results with this product. Unfortunately they don't have any research. I know that Performance was made specifically for the Daedalus project. "In 1998, Kanellos Kanopoulos had only one fuel for his record-breaking seventy-two mile human-powered flight from Crete to Santorini - the maximum endurance sports drink developed by Shaklee with Ethan Nadel of Yale University." At the time they apparently tried Gatorade and many other sports drinks with pretty dismal results. At the time Ethan Nadel was the leading researcher in hydration. Nasa was involved with this project as was the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/Daedalus/HTML/EC87-0014-8.html
In 1996 there was a case study done on professional tennis players. The study said that a professional tennis player could lose up to 3 quarts of fluid an hour. That is why you are seeing so many players cramping. They are losing sodium and water too quickly without enough hydration during their matches. I've noticed that Andre drinks alot more than many other players. Even at the ripe old age of 36 he doesn't seem to cramp up. There are other causes of cramping, but I have noticed that most of the players that are cramping are drinking just water instead of sports drinks.
Ano
Hall of Fame
Virus said:
I'm with you, eventhough we have a different opinion on creatine
.Please post other references that you know regarding nutrition, supplement etc. I will do the same whenever I have the time. As I have said before, I still want to learn and at the same time also share information to others.
Nice to have a member like you, pal!!
Ano said:I'm with you, eventhough we have a different opinion on creatine
Please post other references that you know regarding nutrition, supplement etc. I will do the same whenever I have the time. As I have said before, I still want to learn and at the same time also share information to others.
Nice to have a member like you, pal!!
Time is the hard part. I'm on vacation now and I'm able to squeeze some posting time in between the kids naps, etc. When I get home, I generally don't have the time.
kerplunker
Semi-Pro
I have noticed that as well. Andre did not cramp once and was drinking differently. Becker and Bagdadthis(sp) were cramping on water. When I ran for school I was cramping like crazy and dying in my runs. When I had gatorade I did not cramp and I was very amazed by this.Virus said:
Ano
Hall of Fame
xtremerunnerars said:
Chromium was first introduced to the supplement market in 1989.
Chromium picolinate is a combination of the trace mineral chromium and picolinate, a compound that is made from the natural substance called picolinic acid (1).
While chromium is present in natural substances like brewer's yeast and liver, you would have to eat huge amounts of these food stuffs on a daily basis to get any physiologically relevant amount (1).
Chromium might has a role as a fat loss agent, and is well documented is scientific literature and involves the ability of this trace mineral to increase the efficiency of insulin, thereby alowing the body to release less of this hormone (2).
Chromium may also be involved in increasing insulin's affinity for muscle cells and decreasing insulins's affinity for fat cells.
References:
1. Evans, Gary. All about Chromium Picolinate. Avery Publishing Group, 1999.
2. Fresnos, J & Baet, J. Int J Sports Nutrn. 7:61-71, 1997.
xtremerunnerars
Hall of Fame
So, i don't need to supplement it? Or do i? I've definitely never heard of chromium deficiency, as someone's other post stated.
After cross country season, i want to get into short-burst mode. I will still keep some of my endurance, but i need some power+speed. I think i'm going to go creatine. I'll have more than 6 weeks to train and such, so i should be okay. I need some sort of base sugar or whatever to mix with my creatine shake, right? I've also seen some people include glutamine in creatine shakes.
After cross country season, i want to get into short-burst mode. I will still keep some of my endurance, but i need some power+speed. I think i'm going to go creatine. I'll have more than 6 weeks to train and such, so i should be okay. I need some sort of base sugar or whatever to mix with my creatine shake, right? I've also seen some people include glutamine in creatine shakes.
Ano
Hall of Fame
xtremerunnerars said:
Answer to your first question :
you will need a balanced diet and supplement your diet with a good mutivitamins & mineral supplement, such as Life Extension Mix or Super Nutrition Blend multivitamin or GNC Mega Men, and you would not need to worry about chromium deficiency.
Answer to your second question :
Yes, its better to take your creatine with some carbohydrate drink. It would be even better if you mix your carb drink, creatine and whey protein, and gulp it down it within 15 minutes after you are done with your weight training session. You said you use ON 100 % Whey Gold Standard, so you would not need to add glutamine, because ON 100 % Whey contains 4 Grams of glutamine per scoop. Also when you use creatine supplement, be sure to drink plenty of water through out the day. This is important!!
Oh, and I should add this : I have given you plenty of references regarding the safety & benefits of creatine and whey protein supplements, and you have read some of the references. So it's up to you to decide whether you are going to use creatine or not.
However if you use creatine, and dissatisfied with the results, please don't blame it to me and email me with threats.
. I will say this: satisfaction is not guaranteed. It is only a big possibility.
