Does Becker own Edberg?

[Deleted member 25923]

The head to head is 25-10 in Becker's favor.


But their GS count is nearly even. And Edberg beat Becker more in the GSs.

So is there a reason for this lopsided Head to Head, or was Becker just much better than Edberg?

 

[mental midget]

actually i'd say edberg was the more talented player overall. becker was dismal on clay, whereas stefan was a set away from a FO title.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

actually i'd say edberg was the more talented player overall. becker was dismal on clay, whereas stefan was a set away from a FO title.

I'm becoming an Edberg fan and his style of play was beautiful. Unfortunately, because his prime was before I was born (1992 is my birthyear), all i've seen of him are videos on youtube/vimeo.

 

[roundiesee]

Having followed most of their matches in the past, I felt that Edberg used to have this "complex" thing when he faced Boris. Much like what Federer faced when he had to play Nadal. You almost expect that Boris will somehow find a way to dominate Edberg and win. I'm not too surprised by their head-to-head record. Again, this is just a "match-up" thing and nothing to do with their individual abililities.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

Having followed most of their matches in the past, I felt that Edberg used to have this "complex" thing when he faced Boris. Much like what Federer faced when he had to play Nadal. You almost expect that Boris will somehow find a way to dominate Edberg and win. I'm not too surprised by their head-to-head record. Again, this is just a "match-up" thing and nothing to do with their individual abililities.

Very interesting. What did Becker have that troubled Edberg? Was it his power? His serve? Forehand?

 

[scotus]

Very interesting. What did Becker have that troubled Edberg? Was it his power? His serve? Forehand?

Boris was exceptionally good at returning Stefan's kick serves.

Boris didn't just put the ball back in. He would powerfully smack it back with topspin.

Even his slice return often had a whole lot of pace on it. In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone with that much power on the slice return of serve.

 

[roundiesee]

Boris was exceptionally good at returning Stefan's kick serves.

Boris didn't just put the ball back in. He would powerfully smack it back with topspin.

Even his slice return often had a whole lot of pace on it. In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone with that much power on the slice return of serve.

Yes, I think you've hit the mark! Becker had such an excellent return, especially on the backhand side if I remember correctly, that Edberg literally had to volley up from his shoe-tops, and one very well can't do that for an extended period against the German Wunderkind! Eventually Edberg would get down on himself too much and lose the match. That is what I remember on most of those occasions they've had to play one another.

 

[grafrules]

All I know is when it really mattered, grand slam meetings, it is Edberg who came out on top more often. 3-1 Edberg leads Becker in grand slams. That is the biggest thing people will remember comparing them, along with that they both have 6 grand slams and mostly similar accomplishments in other ways. That Becker has a dominant overall head to head means very little when Edberg still has his number in the biggest matches.

 

[ohlori]

ohlori 10 char

 

[mental midget]

Edberg could have won the 1989 Roland Garros final against Chang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCeDHIYgTIE (peak Chang)

totally. chang was just fated to win that thing.

 

[JoshDragon]

Edberg could have won the 1989 Roland Garros final against Chang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCeDHIYgTIE (peak Chang)

Wow, Edberg owned Chang in that match. I saw a little bit of the 1989 match between Chang and Edberg at the French. It seems like Chang was really top-spinning the ball and Edberg didn't like it. That's probably why Chang was able to win the match.

Either one of these guys would have been destroyed by Nadal though.

 

[MichaelChang]

Wow, Edberg owned Chang in that match.

He owns me and he lost the match?

 

[Deleted member 25923]

Wow, Edberg owned Chang in that match. I saw a little bit of the 1989 match between Chang and Edberg at the French. It seems like Chang was really top-spinning the ball and Edberg didn't like it. That's probably why Chang was able to win the match.

Either one of these guys would have been destroyed by Nadal though.

What a bright and intelligent comment. Go take your fanboyism back to general pro player section.

 

[JoshDragon]

He owns me and he lost the match?

I was talking about the 1996 French Open.

 

[JoshDragon]

What a bright and intelligent comment. Go take your fanboyism back to general pro player section.

I'm just being honest.:shock:

 

[Deleted member 25923]

I'm just being honest.:shock:

It doesn't contribute to this thread one bit. It's unnecessary and not even totally true.

 

[matchmaker]

All I know is when it really mattered, grand slam meetings, it is Edberg who came out on top more often. 3-1 Edberg leads Becker in grand slams. That is the biggest thing people will remember comparing them, along with that they both have 6 grand slams and mostly similar accomplishments in other ways. That Becker has a dominant overall head to head means very little when Edberg still has his number in the biggest matches.

True, I think Becker would have preferred their H2H to be the other way round but to have won those two Wimbledon finals Edberg took away from him. I still feel he should at least have won one of the two.

 

[Okazaki Fragment]

Becker may have owned Edberg at the game of tennis, but Edberg owned Becker at the game of life.

http://www.geocities.com/edhead01us/family3.jpg

Being dumped by text message. That's just sad.

 

[JoshDragon]

Becker may have owned Edberg at the game of tennis, but Edberg owned Becker at the game of life.

http://www.geocities.com/edhead01us/family3.jpg

Being dumped by text message. That's just sad.

Yeah that pretty sad. Although I wouldn't say that Edberg owns him in life. :lol:

 

[helloworld]

Either one of these guys would have been destroyed by Nadal though.

This is not a fxcking Nadal thread. Go bark somewhere else, Mr. "5.0 can be competitive against Fed with wooden racquet".

 

[bluetrain4]

Based on head-to-head, Becker absolutely did "own" Edberg. A lot of those wins came indoors in the fall, and Becker was such a great indoor player.

But, in the "big" events, they are basically even.

Edberg leads 3-1 in Slams (2-1 in Slam finals - all Wimbledon)
Edberg beat Becker in the final of the year-end Masters in 1989 - another huge event (what is today called the Masters Cup)

BUT, Becker throttled Edberg a couple of times in Davis Cup, really kicked the crap out of him indoors, and you'd have to include Davis Cup as a "big" event.

So, in the biggest events, they are essentially even (slight edge to Edberg), yet overall, Becker has a dominant edge.

Looking at how powerful and brutish Becker's game was, and how he could dominate Edberg at times, I'm always suprised that they have the same number of Slams, and Edberg actually has more Slam finals (6 wins, 5 runner-ups vs. 6 wins, 4 runner-ups for Becker). And, Edberg made the finals of all Slams and actually won a few clay tourneys in his career, as where Becker did not.

And, their achievements are basically against the same era of players so there is no argument in favor of either one for strength of competition. Becker, though, won his Slams over a longer period (1985-1996 vs. 1985-1992 for Edberg) and I believe he won more Masters series tournaments overall. You could also make the argument that Edberg's 6 Slams are not as "strong" as Becker's because they include 2 Kooyong-era Australian Opens. True, the fields weren't as tough overall, and the AO kind lagged behind back then, but Edberg beat tough players en route to those titles, including Lendl (both in 1985 and 1987), Wilander, and Cash.

Both great players, similar resumes, yet Becker has a commanding head-to-head lead.

I'm always surprised to remember that Edberg lead Lendl 14-13 head to head. A lot of those matches were great matches played on big stages. Sort of an overlooked rivalry.

 

[JoshDragon]

This is not a fxcking Nadal thread. Go bark somewhere else, Mr. "5.0 can be competitive against Fed with wooden racquet".

Do you have anything to contribute to this thread outside of your angry, negative feelings towards me? If not then please don't bother me further.

 

[mental midget]

Looking at how powerful and brutish Becker's game was, and how he could dominate Edberg at times, I'm always suprised that they have the same number of Slams

same reason philippoussis has less slams than federer--talent.

there's some good footage of stefan and boris playing recently at a blackrock event. edberg basically toys with him.

 

[helloworld]

same reason philippoussis has less slams than federer--talent.

there's some good footage of stefan and boris playing recently at a blackrock event. edberg basically toys with him.

Do you realize that Boris has become a fat old geezer, while Stefan is still in pretty good shape?

 

[Okazaki Fragment]

Do you realize that Boris has become a fat old geezer, while Stefan is still in pretty good shape?

Game of life...game of life...

 

[galain]

I do recall reading somewhere that Becker never once beat Edberg while they were both juniors. Can't say it's 100% accurate as it was a long time ago, but if so, I think it's interesting in itself that Becker was able to gain a winning head to head record over him as a senior player.

 

[hoodjem]

Edberg could have won the 1989 Roland Garros final against Chang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCeDHIYgTIE (peak Chang)

SHOULD have beaten Chang. I think he felt sorry for Chang with his cramps being reduced to an underhanded serve.

This got into his head, and Stefan (Mr. Super-Nice-Guy) just couldn't finish off the helpless victim.

 

[mental midget]

I do recall reading somewhere that Becker never once beat Edberg while they were both juniors. Can't say it's 100% accurate as it was a long time ago, but if so, I think it's interesting in itself that Becker was able to gain a winning head to head record over him as a senior player.

junior grand slam, baby! last guy to pull that off.

i think becker's borderline megalomania served him well on the pro tour. not much in the way of self-doubt. edberg, on the other hand, maybe thought a little too much about it, being naturally the more introverted of the two. this translated into questionable mental toughness early on in his pro career. however he clearly grew into a very tough player--his back-to-back USO victories were insane, multiple 5-set matches, playing serve and volley at a time when guys were stepping in and cutting off kicking balls on the rise. a very dangerous proposition. i was a huge fan, obviously, and i really didn't give him much of a chance to pull through.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

Edberg seemed like not only a great player, but an amazing sportsman as well.

 

[Rabbit]

IMO, Edberg was more like a rapier while Becker was a broadsword. Edberg used precision and movement to win and Becker was just an unstoppable force.

I think the head to head match up wasn't the greatest for Edberg because he had to be more 'on' to blunt Becker's power. Becker could hit his way out of trouble or a slump.

All that said, I was thoroughly an Edberg fan. I thought his game, every aspect of it, was a thing to behold. And, he didn't spend all his time talking about himself like Becker did. I always thought Becker was about as big a phony as you can get to be.

 

[Kevin T]

IMO, Edberg was more like a rapier while Becker was a broadsword. Edberg used precision and movement to win and Becker was just an unstoppable force.

I think the head to head match up wasn't the greatest for Edberg because he had to be more 'on' to blunt Becker's power. Becker could hit his way out of trouble or a slump.

All that said, I was thoroughly an Edberg fan. I thought his game, every aspect of it, was a thing to behold. And, he didn't spend all his time talking about himself like Becker did. I always thought Becker was about as big a phony as you can get to be.

Agreed, Rabbit. Edberg moved so gracefully. Wasn't he called "The Ghost" by some in the Brit press? He also won the sportsmanship award practically every year he played. I really, really miss his style of play. Edberg was the Sampras to Becker's Agassi (though that's probably an insult to Edberg and Agassi, respectively ). Take care and Merry Christmas to all.

 

[JoshDragon]

IMO, Edberg was more like a rapier while Becker was a broadsword. Edberg used precision and movement to win and Becker was just an unstoppable force.

I think the head to head match up wasn't the greatest for Edberg because he had to be more 'on' to blunt Becker's power. Becker could hit his way out of trouble or a slump.

All that said, I was thoroughly an Edberg fan. I thought his game, every aspect of it, was a thing to behold. And, he didn't spend all his time talking about himself like Becker did. I always thought Becker was about as big a phony as you can get to be.

Sounds allot like Federer vs Roddick, except Federer owns their h2h 15-2.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

Sounds allot like Federer vs Roddick, except Federer owns their h2h 15-2.

Not really, because Roddick has never beaten Federer in a slam.

 

[scotus]

Agreed, Rabbit. Edberg moved so gracefully. Wasn't he called "The Ghost" by some in the Brit press? He also won the sportsmanship award practically every year he played. I really, really miss his style of play. Edberg was the Sampras to Becker's Agassi (though that's probably an insult to Edberg and Agassi, respectively ). Take care and Merry Christmas to all.

Apparently Stefan still moves really well.

After losing to Edberg in a recent match, Pat Cash reportedly commented (jokingly) that Stefan should be tested for performance-enhancing drugs.

 

[abmk]

No, not when their H2H in slams is 3-1 in favour of edberg .

 

[helloworld]

Agreed, Rabbit. Edberg moved so gracefully. Wasn't he called "The Ghost" by some in the Brit press? He also won the sportsmanship award practically every year he played. I really, really miss his style of play. Edberg was the Sampras to Becker's Agassi (though that's probably an insult to Edberg and Agassi, respectively ). Take care and Merry Christmas to all.

How is it an insult to Edberg when the guy you compared him to has almost 3 times more major titles. Think again.

 

[mental midget]

Apparently Stefan still moves really well.

After losing to Edberg in a recent match, Pat Cash reportedly commented (jokingly) that Stefan should be tested for performance-enhancing drugs.

nice. i think pete, roger, and stefan might be the three best athletes i've seen play the game, in terms of overall movement, balance, and body control.

edberg just NEVER seemed off-balance, like, wherever the guy was on court during a point, even lunging for a volley or something, you could take a cast of him, and it would stand up perfectly.

 

[380pistol]

actually i'd say edberg was the more talented player overall. becker was dismal on clay, whereas stefan was a set away from a FO title.

Really. You forget that in the 1989 SF Becker was up a break in the 5th set vs Edberg, before Stefan came Back. Becker also made 4 finals of masters on clay with 3 of those losses coming to Muster, Bruguera and Sampras.

Not to mention he made 3 semis in Paris losing to Edberg (was up a break in the 5th set), Wilander (a 3 time French Open Champ) and Agassi as well as a QF. Not that bad on clay, far from abysmal.

 

[mental midget]

Really. You forget that in the 1989 SF Becker was up a break in the 5th set vs Edberg, before Stefan came Back. Becker also made 4 finals of masters on clay with 3 of those losses coming to Muster, Bruguera and Sampras.

Not to mention he made 3 semis in Paris losing to Edberg (was up a break in the 5th set), Wilander (a 3 time French Open Champ) and Agassi as well as a QF. Not that bad on clay, far from abysmal.

true. by dismal i meant zero clay titles.

 

[CEvertFan]

I think Becker was a bit of a bad match up for Edberg because he could handle Edberg's kick serve and he had a far better forehand but Becker could also be inconsistent in big matches, especially if he was in one of his "I'll beat you from the baseline" moods which is why Edberg beat Boris in more of their big matches. Also a lot of their non Slam matches were played indoors and Becker is one of the all time best indoor players.

The other area that really shows how inconsistent Becker could be is the # of weeks they both spent at #1. 72 weeks for Edberg compared to only 12 weeks for Becker is a big difference.

 

[hoodjem]

I really loved watching their duels in those three Wimby finals 1988-1990. Great competition, plus I think they really respected each other and liked each other a lot. They always hugged and smiled at the end of the match at the net.

Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT6dkwM92H8&feature=related
Good tennis, good battle, good friends.

 

[bluetrain4]

I agree with basically everything that has been said. Becker was simply a bad matchup for Edberg.

That said, I'm sure Edberg isn't losing any sleep. I think almost any player would take 10 wins over Becker. True, that was balanced against 25 losses - a very high amount. But, 10 wins over a great player, 3-1 in Slams and 2-1 in Slam finals, as well as a Masters final win has to make 25 losses MUCH easier to deal with.

Becker could play very well on clay, but was inconsistent. It's really a weird thing that he has no clay court titles. Not because he's a top clay courter or anything, but simply because he was a great player who grew up playing on clay and made it to the latter rounds of many clay tourneys. You would think he'd break through at least once.

 

[Rabbit]

Agreed, Rabbit. Edberg moved so gracefully. Wasn't he called "The Ghost" by some in the Brit press? He also won the sportsmanship award practically every year he played. I really, really miss his style of play. Edberg was the Sampras to Becker's Agassi (though that's probably an insult to Edberg and Agassi, respectively ). Take care and Merry Christmas to all.

Belated Merry Christmas to you too my studly brother.

Sounds allot like Federer vs Roddick, except Federer owns their h2h 15-2.

Not really, because Roddick has never beaten Federer in a slam.

Yep, for what Mansewerz said and for the simple fact that neither Federer or Roddick play a game any where similar to Becker or Edberg. IMO, Federer and Roddick are more technicians where Becker and Edberg were artists.

Apparently Stefan still moves really well.

After losing to Edberg in a recent match, Pat Cash reportedly commented (jokingly) that Stefan should be tested for performance-enhancing drugs.

Yeah, there was another story from Greg Rusedski. Seems he called Edberg to practice on grass to get Greggie ready for a grass court ATP tournament. Edberg, in retirement for some time, agreed and began to beat Rusedski and laugh at him while he did so.

 

[Kevin T]

How is it an insult to Edberg when the guy you compared him to has almost 3 times more major titles. Think again.

I wasn't comparing their trophy collections, just their attitudes/personalities/etc. Stefan was a gentleman amongst gentlemen (not saying that Pete wasn't but it's hard to compare to Edberg in that regard). As for the Agassi/Becker comparison...at least Agassi realized later in his career that there is more to life than self-promotion and being in the limelight. Not sure Becker has learned that lesson yet

 

[Lendl and Federer Fan]

No, Becker didn't own Edberg. Their GS HtH record is 3-1 in favorite of Edberg. I think Edberg saved his best game for what mattered the most, in the Grand Slams; he didn't want Becker to figure out his game, so he lay low most of the time. :wink:

 

[Wuornos]

I believe he bought him at auction.