Does Nadal (like Borg & Bruguera) play "negative tennis?"

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
I thought this was very good column on a number of levels. But what most interested me was Bodo's use of the term "negative tennis." I remember him using that phrase when writing about Bruguera, it always seemed like a backhanded compliment. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts about it.

From TennisWorld:

I have a confession to make. Halfway through yesterday’s NASDAQ-100 final (you can read the blow-by-blow here, with pirate-boy Rafael ripping forehands left and right, I got to thinking heretical thoughts. Maybe, I thought, Federer isn’t quite the towering genius he’s made out to be.

After all, his challengers for No. 1 are, in different ways, grievously flawed: Safin is a knucklehead, Hewitt is underpowered, Roddick lacks diversity. Ferrero is MIA, and Moya too pleased with himself—Gaudio, Nalbandian, Coria, et al.? Suitable stand-ins for the Seven Dwarfs to Federer’s Snow White. Andre Agassi? What do those “great matches” against Federer say beyond this: Agassi’s game plays right into the strengths of Fed’s.

It was easy to think those thoughts.

The way Nadal was playing, it looked like he might be another Bjorn Borg—a formidable combination of mental focus, topspin, foot speed, consistency, and impregnable defense. That would make him the new master of negative tennis, a player who uses his dark powers to demolish any creative player unfortunate enough to wander into his domain. For all the great baseliners out there, we haven’t seen this degree of negative genius since the heyday, on clay, of Sergi Bruguera.

But you know what happened next.

Federer eked out a tiebreaker in which he was, at one juncture, just two points from losing the match in three straight sets, and from there it was all downhill for the swashbuckling lad from Mallorca; down came the Jolly Roger, up went the white flag (no, it wasn’t his pristine clam-diggers) of surrender. Fed won 12 of the next 16 games going away.

I’m not sure I ever changed my mind so completely about two players in the course of a single match as I did yesterday.

Let’s take Nadal first: This tournament was my first chance to get a good close look at Nadal in a big match against a top player. As strong as he looked for the better part of three sets, it seems that Federer inadvertently but successfully pursued a rope-a-dope strategy, hanging in there while Nadal punched himself out—mentally even more than physically, perhaps.

Granted, Nadal is just 18 and inexperienced at pacing himself for long matches. But the one thing you can’t do if you play negative tennis is lose concentration because, as Borg demonstrated, the first requirement of successful negative tennis is consistency. Nadal, who speaks through a translator in what might be called Universal Caveman, acknowledged after the final that he experienced late-match brain-lock.

It may seem like I’m denying Nadal the credit he deserves; after all, he did get within two points of beating Federer in straight sets. But one other thing about Nadal’s collapse nags me. Federer said it took him a set-and-a-break to figure out how to cope with Nadal’s southpaw game and spins. That’s a lot to spot a guy, and it’s only a one-time deal. Federer will be better prepared to play Nadal next time.

Nadal clearly has a lot of game, but then, a lot of it is really ugly. Not long ago, Pete Sampras famously told me that Federer is “easy on the eyes” in addition to having a style that’s easy on his body and energy-efficient. Nadal, by contrast, is hard on the eyes—and prone to exhausting himself. This isn’t merely a style-of-play issue. It has technical underpinnings.

Take that serve. Nadal looks like he’s trying to climb into a small cardboard box, preparing for some Houdini-like escape stunt, when he hits it. From beginning to end, it’s a cramped shot (reminiscent of Jimmy Connors’ mediocre delivery) that robs Nadal of the major serving advantage that lefties often enjoy.

How about that atomic forehand? At times Nadal seems to hit it like he’s holding a hammer, the racquet at a right angle to his arm. That’s really ugly—it could compare to the worst of Yevgeny Kafelnikov. But there’s no doubt that Nadal’s forehand is a potent weapon, and it will remain that as long as his incredibly quick feet continue to compensate for any technical glitches.

By contrast, Nadal’s backhand is a less dangerous but more grooved shot. He gets down to it beautifully, plays it close to his body, and really uncoils as he hits it. Sure he tries to run around it, but so many players will get to it that, over time, it’ll probably develop into more of a weapon.

You can forget the volley—Nadal doesn’t have one.

Conclusion: Nadal is going to win a lot of matches on clay. But, when you compare his technique to that of, say, Borg, the soft spots in his game are glaring. Nadal may generate more power than Borg ever did, especially on the forehand side, but he’s not as grooved and his serve is weak. His speed counts for a lot, but right now he’s still more Alberto Berasategui than Ice-Borg.

Now Fed: Roger’s strokes speak for themselves—he’s silky smooth, easy on the eyes. We’ve all seen plenty of him by now, so I’m going to focus on the most underrated weapon in his arsenal: his mind, specifically that part of the brain that issues self-control commands.

And self-control, you’ll remember, was generally hailed as Borg’s greatest gift; the ultimate complement to his fail-safe groundies. Sangfroid. Restraint. That’s what Borg was all about—living up to Ernest Hemingway’s definition of “courage” as showing grace under fire.

Oddly, you don’t hear much about how utterly Federer has been transformed from a highly gifted but somewhat soft competitor into a player whose game seems to rise in direct proportion to the threat it faces. It’s probably because, as such things go, the transformation was rapid (the turning point probably was his unexpected second straight first-round loss at Roland Garros in 2003; after that, he won his first major at Wimbledon—and the rest is history).

Fed remembers what the buzz was about as little as two years ago. This is what he said, after he beat Nadal, in response to a question about the satisfaction he gets out of forcing an error:

"Yeah, it’s great, because I was always famous to win quick points, and people were saying, you know, “You just need to get the ball over three or four times and then he’s going to lose his mind, go for a winner or an error.” Now, you know, I’m coming through those tough rallies, also showing me that on the clay court it’s really not a problem. I’m really looking forward to that challenge as well."

I’ve seen a lot of Federer this past month, as he ran off Masters Series wins at Indian Wells and Key Biscayne, and I’ve had lots of chances to observe and even question him on pretty much anything that seemed worth pursuing. The most striking thing about the mature Federer is his aplomb—the unflappable conviction that, all other things being equal, he’s got the game to beat anybody, anytime, on any surface. This is something that even Borg, haunted throughout his career by the prospect of having to play night matches at the U.S. Open, never developed.

Back at Indian Wells, I asked Federer if the sheer ease and grace of his game, and the attention paid to it, leads people to overlook his mental qualities. He replied:

"If you don’t talk about [a hidden virtue], it’s always a good sign for me. It’s the same with footwork, or the mental part of the game. We don’t talk about that much but the players I face, they know that they don’t just have to watch out for my forehand, or my serve, on big points.

I think in the end you’ve got to feel comfortable with yourself. I have a strong belief that I’m doing the things right, you know, working the right way. And this itself makes me a better player. I can rely on so many strengths, you know, because if something doesn’t go right, maybe a shot, I can compensate with different strengths in my game."
 

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
That wasn’t exactly what I was looking for, so I pressed the issue the following day. After Roger beat Ivan Ljubicic, I asked Federer if he senses that he turned a corner somewhere, mentally, as a competitor. He said:

"Very clearly, yes. And I think the [fans and press] who followed me for enough time, they see the difference, and when it happened and how it came along. I just have that feeling that I dig much deeper than I used to, especially when I’m down. Being a set down, you know, it doesn’t bother me anymore.

Before, I would get frustrated and totally change my game if I was down. Everything would be in kind of panic mode. You know, that doesn’t happen anymore. It really [takes] very much to make me lose concentration, and that’s a very good thing."

Granted, Federer didn’t have that road-to-Damascus experience that Sampras had in 1992 at the U.S. Open after losing the final to Stefan Eberg; his evolution into a player who’ll do whatever it takes to win, every time he sets foot on the court, was incremental. And it fed off itself more than it fed off crushing disappointments or missed opportunities.

Conclusion: Federer has arrived at the high ground occupied by champions like Borg and Sampras. Federer’s most outstanding quality is his pride; this late-developing but completely organic and unapologetic love of winning.

In the big picture, it’s never about the X’s and O’s.

TennisWorld won’t see Federer up close and personal until the French Open, so I’ll leave you to ponder some words he spoke last week on staying focused and hungry.

"Well, you know, as the No. 1 in the world, you just don’t want to give away victories to other guys. Then they can say, “Yeah, I beat the No. 1 player in the world.” At least you want to make it tough for them. I think that is the motivation I found and now have. It makes me a better player, a tougher player especially. I’m happy to live through this."
 

FalconX

Rookie
If Nadal's game is ugly Roddick's game must be hideous. Worst part of it is that not only does he lack volleys he doesn't have a backhand either. Did Tennisworld ever publish an article like that on Roddick? His game must be so disgustingly ugly that people have gone blind watching him.
 

Type40

Semi-Pro
I don't think Nadal's game is ugly, I think it's still devloping, the guy's only 18 fer chris' sake, he came to within 2 points of victory, and then ran out of gas, give him anoher year or two of experience, and I think the federer nadal rivalry could become a legendary one.
 

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
I don't think he uses that term to describe all "grinders," just players who have so much topspin that their defense in essense becomes a form of offense. Borg, Bruguera seemed to possess far more topspin than any of their comtemporaries & had such a great margin for error that they could safely keep the ball in play on every shot.
 

PJVA

Rookie
The tennis guy said:
If you say grinder is negative tennis, then they are. Nadal, Borg are better version of grinders. There are uglier grinders.

I don't think he meant that being a grinder is ugly tennis. Hewitt is a grinder, but he's not ugly to watch. I think he was refering to Nadal's techniques and the sledge hammer grunting style he has were he puts out so much energy. He doesn't look good while he's serving or hitting his shots....they seem akward and belabored.
 

pyro2990

Rookie
gael monfils is 18, he won 3 junior slams and everyone is like ooo hes so good, nadal is 18, and hes in the top 30. for his age he is such a beast. as for his game being "ugly" it seems to work pretty well. his groundstrokes are ANYTHING but bad. hes best on clay, but managed to take two sets off fedex on one of his worst surfaces. he hits with so much topspin that he rarely misses, and can hit angles off both sides like no other. personally i think he can be the best clay courter ever. with an improved serve, everyone will be scared of him
and lets not forget him beating roddick in davis cup
 
  • Like
Reactions: DSH

PJVA

Rookie
Type40 said:
I don't think Nadal's game is ugly, I think it's still devloping, the guy's only 18 fer chris' sake, he came to within 2 points of victory, and then ran out of gas, give him anoher year or two of experience, and I think the federer nadal rivalry could become a legendary one.

Whether Nadal won or lost he was still ugly to watch. I don't think he's going to change his basic style.
 

PJVA

Rookie
pyro2990 said:
gael monfils is 18, he won 3 junior slams and everyone is like ooo hes so good, nadal is 18, and hes in the top 30. for his age he is such a beast. as for his game being "ugly" it seems to work pretty well. his groundstrokes are ANYTHING but bad. hes best on clay, but managed to take two sets off fedex on one of his worst surfaces. he hits with so much topspin that he rarely misses, and can hit angles off both sides like no other. personally i think he can be the best clay courter ever. with an improved serve, everyone will be scared of him
and lets not forget him beating roddick in davis cup

Obviously Nadal got a head start on Monfils because he didn't stay in the juniors. I don't think the Miami hardcourt is a normal hardcourt.....it's very slow. Remember Coria got to the finals there last year. It will be interesting as time goes on to see how Nadal does against Coria and Gaudio on clay. So far he's never beaten either of them.

Beating Roddick on clay....was no great feat. Didn't Mutis beat him too last year at Roland Garros?
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
PJVA said:
Whether Nadal won or lost he was still ugly to watch. I don't think he's going to change his basic style.

In the first 2 sets, I thought he would be playing the same way with a baseball bat, and winning against Federer's wand ... Now, that's a scary and ugly proposition ...
 

edge

Banned
A competent S&V attacker would beat Nadal (and Roddick) on hardcourt just as Mac dethroned Borg at Wimbedon. The best thing about Fed being #1 is tht juniors are being developed in that "easy on the eyes" style. Imagine the ugliness that would prevailed if Nadal reigned supreme? Already American tennis has become completely banal with the rise of Roddick's two trick (serve & FH) pony.
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
edge said:
The best thing about Fed being #1 is the juniors are being developed in that "easy on the eyes" style.

I hope someone hears you in the tennis heaven, but I am not convinced they are yet developed this way.
 

VamosRafa

Hall of Fame
PJVA said:
Obviously Nadal got a head start on Monfils because he didn't stay in the juniors. I don't think the Miami hardcourt is a normal hardcourt.....it's very slow. Remember Coria got to the finals there last year. It will be interesting as time goes on to see how Nadal does against Coria and Gaudio on clay. So far he's never beaten either of them.

Beating Roddick on clay....was no great feat. Didn't Mutis beat him too last year at Roland Garros?

Just to correct a misconception: Nadal never really played the juniors. He rarely left Spain, as he was able to play there and get the training he needed. He did play the Wimbledon juniors a few years ago, as I mentioned. But I don't think he played another junior GS event. He's a product of the Spanish training system.

I think Peter made some good points. I don't agree with them all. I think Rafa's game is more exciting than he depicted, and I think he should get his butt out to one of Rafa's doubles matches before he says the kid can't volley.

And if you want, I can post articles by other journalists who think Rafa is indeed the next coming after Federer. But I won't bore you with them, unless requested, of course.

Well, I will bore you with one. Headline on ESPN tennis today:

Talent. Weapons. All-court game. Roger Federer? Nope.
Try Spain's Rafael Nadal, who gave the No.1 player fits in the Nasdaq-100 open final.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=2029954
 

VamosRafa

Hall of Fame
One more thing about Peter's article that says a lot:

Let’s take Nadal first: This tournament was my first chance to get a good close look at Nadal in a big match against a top player.

I think it likely was Peter's only look at Nadal, actually.

Except for Davis Cup, he hasn't played any big matches against top players, because he's a kid and just hasn't had the opportunity yet. Hello????

This was his first truly significant final, and I think he did okay given that it was his first time. And the youngest to get there ever in Miami's history, blah, blah, blah.

Man, you listen to the hype about Donald Young, you'd think he'd won an ATP match by now. And you read certain things about Nadal, and you'd think he's reached the pinnacle of his career.
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
VamosRafa said:
I think Peter made some good points. I don't agree with them all. I think Rafa's game is more exciting than he depicted, and I think he should get his butt out to one of Rafa's doubles matches before he says the kid can't volley.

That might well be the case. I was watching the final with the parents of several Canadian juniors, and one of them, Mrs. Chvojka, the mother of outstanding S-V player Erik Chvojka, told us that indeed, they saw Nadal playing doubles at USO (with Robredo?) and he was great.

And everybody knows he's on the Spanish doubles team. And the Spanish are very professional in their DC choices.

Now, in the match with Federer he didn't show the same mastery, being 1-3 at at given time, but we need to continue watching him.
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
This guy wouldnt win a game (maybe even one point) from Nadal and he feels it necessary to call his tennis ugly...

Theres room in tennis for all kinds of styles. If everyone played the same it wouldnt be fun.

I love also how he thnks its some revelation that Fed is so good. Wow, how perceptive. Hes only been ruling the earth since late 2003.
 

Thunnus

Rookie
This guys doesn't know what he is talking about

"But there’s no doubt that Nadal’s forehand is a potent weapon, and it will remain that as long as his incredibly quick feet continue to compensate for any technical glitches."

Nadal's forehand has technical glitches??? Are you kidding me??? This is ultra-modern/ the newest and best Spanish forehand technique. I am sure this guy thinks Borg had a ton of technical flaws in his groundies as well, not using the traditional easter forehand grip, etc.

Nadal forehand does exactly what was intended for and is very effective. The fact some idiot don't complehend a new technique doesn't mean it is flawed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DSH

HookEmJeff

Semi-Pro
Bodo has always had a hard-on for the clasical game of tennis, the serve-and-volleyers, and he tends to rip on players who don't have that style, especially those who can't volley (which could be said of Nadal) and the backboard style baseliners. I think his opinions on players are usually quite clear, and dead-on. But, I do disagree with Nadal playing ugly tennis. I rather like the way he plays and digs out points, and I love his fire. The kid has got moxie and he's got heart.
Nadal is definitely a grinder, but he's got a lot of offense in his game, and he's a shotmaker, too. I think the early parts of that Nasdaq final were as much about Nadal playing well as they were Federer playing poorly. When both of those leveled out, well it was clear who had the most game, heart, will and ...when it mattered most...stamina.
Fed really stunk it up in those first two and a half sets and once he got even the tiniest bit of confidence and his teeth into the match, it was over. Nadal was playing not to lose and then totally ran out of gas. To beat someone like Federer, Nadal is going to have to have some Hewitt-like stamina. He's really going to need that to last in the French Open, too. I don't know what his pre-French clay event schedule is like, but I sure hope he's not playing anymore than three or four events in the weeks leading up to Roland Garros.
I'd still put Federer as a favorite above Nadal at the French. I think this is Federer's best chance to get the French so far, with so many of the clay threats not playing all that well. Coria is way down this year, Moya can't take him out over five sets, and Ferrero is also in a tailspin. His other big rivals (Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Agassi) are not going to be able to beat Federer on clay, especailly since hardcourts are all their best surfaces, and that's what they've been playing on for the last three months.
Gaudio could be tough, but I really think Federer is going to walk through the French. Nadal could challenge, but he's got to improve his endurance to win it. Hard to do that in a month and a half.

Jeff
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
To HookEmJeff:

Nadal's playing 5 tournamens before the French, this might be way too much. Fed only plays the 3 Master's series, way too much too if he wins in each:)
-------------
Q. What are your plans for the future?

RAFAEL NADAL: I gonna play Valencia now. I play against Ferrero first round (smiling). Good draw (laughing)?

I play Valencia, is the first tournament for prepare Monte‑Carlo. Monte‑Carlo, Barcelona, I stop one week, and I play the next two Masters Series in Rome, Hamburg. I stop one week for play the French Open if I don't have injury for the first time.
-----------
 

lagranwilly

New User
i can´t believe this forum....Nadal has ugly tennis???????hey the guys that posted this, why don´t you change to a lacrosse forum,that would be healthy for everyone
Nadal is perhaps the most gifted player in all the tour,he proved with 18 years that he might defeat Federer in short term,and his tennis is technical,skillfull and very nice to see..DIG IT
 
  • Like
Reactions: DSH

joe sch

Legend
I dont like the term "negative tennis" and dont think it applies to Nadal since he is not a defensive player. He hits as extreme and hard as possible given his size, strenght and technology. I do the think comparison to Borg is very appropriate since he hits with the most topspin, probably uses one of the most powerful racket combination today and is one of the fastest afoot. Replace Bjorns wood donnay borg pro strung with natural gut at approx 75lbs with a bab strung with poly and you would have seen Nadal like pace and topspin (technology) !
 

Thunnus

Rookie
Nadal is a pusher... as he pushes his opponents with his spin, pace, and angles. The fact he has world-class wheels doesn't mean that Nadal is a defensive player or play negative tennis. I don't like Bodo's (or Dodo's) negative comments.
 

arodnadal

Semi-Pro
Quote by VamosRafa
"I think Rafa's game is more exciting than he depicted, and I think he should get his butt out to one of Rafa's doubles matches before he says the kid can't volley."

I totally agree with VamosRafa on this one. He has a more exciting game to me than any other player on tour.
 

panatta

Rookie
You can simple count how many winners Nadal plays in a match. He plays more winners than the most of his opponents, even if the opponent is Federer. And you can still say he's a defensive player? We can attack also from baseline. Agassi and Courier teach us...
 

ATXtennisaddict

Hall of Fame
I don't like Nadal's game (except for his running) but it can be exciting I guess. Getting to balls which are supposed to be winners is nice.
 

fastdunn

Legend
Kevin Patrick said:
Conclusion: Federer has arrived at the high ground occupied by champions like Borg and Sampras.

I understand Federer inspires lots of people but this can not be serious...
He may have potential but no where near yet!
This tells how overboading his article is...

Nadal's game is underappreciated because he is packaged with clay court
tennis wrapper. He does possess a variety of shots.

It's unclear who played "negative tennis" in their FO semi 2005.
I thought Federer was put into defensive situtation more frequently.
For example, Nadal acquired a weak replies from Federer's backhand
and then stretched him wide to his forehand. Also he successfully
attacked Federer's 2nd serve and put him in defensive situation.
Federer was busy running side to side defending....
 

Chloe

Rookie
That’s a lot to spot a guy, and it’s only a one-time deal. Federer will be better prepared to play Nadal next time.

Hee! HEEEE!

Hindsight, baby.

This was funny the first time I read it and it's even more amusing now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DSH

edge

Banned
VamosRafa said:
I think he should get his butt out to one of Rafa's doubles matches before he says the kid can't volley.


Volleying in doubles is quite different than singles. In doubles you are already at the net and at most a step away. In singles, you have to construct the point. You have to hit a good approach shot, you have to move to the net and hit the volley on the run. That is, it's much easier to hit a decent volley in doubles. In singles, it's an art form, just ask Agassi.
 
Top