Does the dinking, mooballing and pushing ever stop?

[AlwaysImproving]

beating the pusher

I'm a 3.5 and have played some pushers. One thing I notice at the 3.5 level is a lot of the backhands are weak. So hit it to their backhand-side (using that control-oriented Prestige) and approach the net--I like being a step or two inside the service box. Keep on doing this and it forces them to lob effectively or hit a passing shot--which many pushers cannot do effectively.

 

[nickarnold2000]

I'm a 3.5 and have played some pushers. One thing I notice at the 3.5 level is a lot of the backhands are weak. So hit it to their backhand-side (using that control-oriented Prestige) and approach the net--I like being a step or two inside the service box. Keep on doing this and it forces them to lob effectively or hit a passing shot--which many pushers cannot do effectively.

Another good strategy is give them a wider FH and then hit the next shot to their BH and come in to either volley or overhead(but they'll have to stretch more to hit that BH).
Because they probably will be giving you more BHs, your down the line BH is a very important stroke to practice to setup this pattern - I do all the time.

 

[jmnk]

[...]
-Dropshot-lob. Again, just to be an arse. Mostly because it's incredibly easy on your part, especially when there's very little threat of a pusher doing anything interesting with a dropshot. Plus, it drains them. You get more than 5 cycles in in one point and you can be pretty much sure they'll miss soon.
[...]

I'm not sure what level you are but if you can properly execute 5 cycles of dropshot followed by a lob, in one point mind you, and do it consistently enough for the duration of the match - my hats off to you.
OP stated he is about 3.5 - I have yet to see a video of a rally lasting 20 shots (5 dropshots + 5 returns + 5 lobs + 5 returns) at that level, any rally, not even a one with a plan.
So while advice is theoretically speaking sound, it is also, well, a bit unrealistic.

 

[GuyClinch]

Pushing stops at the higher levels because higher level players have learned to beat pushers. So all you need to do to stop seeing pushers is start beating them..

That being said you will miss them once you get to those higher levels because you miss the freedom of being able to execute your own game plan..

 

[Power Player]

I think someone was saying to take no pace balls on the rise. I personally tried that, and I find it to be a lot tougher then taking heavy shots on the rise.

A no pace ball gives you time to set up and let the ball drop into your strike zone, where you can place it wherever you want. A nice relaxed swing with proper technique should set up a winner off the reply.

 

[tennisdad65]

Moonballing and pushing stop ~ 4.5, but dinking works even at the top levels in Doubles. Ever seen JMac play doubles? In his return games, he was a master at dinking the ball softly at his opponents feet.

 

[LeeD]

Some top 50 Men's Pros, HaroldSolomon and EddyDibbs, were great moonballers, pushers, counterpuncher's, dinkers, at their level. Even they admitted that being 5'7" tall, not having big weapons, they still had to feed their appetites, make some money, and travel around, with whatever style allowed them to go 3 rounds.

 

[Power Player]

Practiced serve and returns with a 5.0 junk baller.

He will stand inside the baseline, about 6 feet off the service line for every single return of serve. He said he does this to even the hardest servers. It was a pretty cool strategy. It forced me to hit well placed serves with some good pace so he would basically frame them. It is complete feast or famine, but his logic is that at the 5.0 and under level, most servers he has faced can not consistently place the ball in the corners of the box

If he got a hold of one, he could take all the pace off of it with a dropshot return that was impossible to get to.

If you hit him a second serve, it was over, dropshot no matter what. It took away any chance of hitting a kick serve, and forced me to hit only first serves both times or else he would drop shot any slice or topspin serve I sent him.

Afterwords he told me that many guys have quit midmatch and gotten frustrated, as some were ex College players and their egos could not handle it. lol.

He also served and volleys real well. I had to return down the lines and finish with a crosscourt winner to take the point. It was pretty fun stuff.

 

[burosky]

Practiced serve and returns with a 5.0 junk baller.

He will stand inside the baseline, about 6 feet off the service line for every single return of serve. He said he does this to even the hardest servers. It was a pretty cool strategy. It forced me to hit well placed serves with some good pace so he would basically frame them. It is complete feast or famine, but his logic is that at the 5.0 and under level, most servers he has faced can not consistently place the ball in the corners of the box

If he got a hold of one, he could take all the pace off of it with a dropshot return that was impossible to get to.

If you hit him a second serve, it was over, dropshot no matter what. It took away any chance of hitting a kick serve, and forced me to hit only first serves both times or else he would drop shot any slice or topspin serve I sent him.

Afterwords he told me that many guys have quit midmatch and gotten frustrated, as some were ex College players and their egos could not handle it. lol.

He also served and volleys real well. I had to return down the lines and finish with a crosscourt winner to take the point. It was pretty fun stuff.

So essentially, you are saying that on his returns if he can get a racket on it, it doesn't matter how fast the serve is, he can consistenly hit a dropshot that is impossible to get to every time. This guy must have the softest hands!

 

[Power Player]

Yes I swear. I have never seen anyone hit better drop shots in my life.

He uses a large Head racquet..like one of those 120s they make and strings at 48#s. He can also hit hard when he wants so, you can't just dink him around.

The way I take points off of him is by hitting well placed shots into the corners. If he gets a racquet on it, I run to the net because I know a perfectly placed dropper is coming.

I have watched him beat ex d1 guys from around the area and they never come back to the club again.

 

[J_R_B]

Practiced serve and returns with a 5.0 junk baller.

He will stand inside the baseline, about 6 feet off the service line for every single return of serve. He said he does this to even the hardest servers. It was a pretty cool strategy. It forced me to hit well placed serves with some good pace so he would basically frame them. It is complete feast or famine, but his logic is that at the 5.0 and under level, most servers he has faced can not consistently place the ball in the corners of the box

If he got a hold of one, he could take all the pace off of it with a dropshot return that was impossible to get to.

If you hit him a second serve, it was over, dropshot no matter what. It took away any chance of hitting a kick serve, and forced me to hit only first serves both times or else he would drop shot any slice or topspin serve I sent him.

Afterwords he told me that many guys have quit midmatch and gotten frustrated, as some were ex College players and their egos could not handle it. lol.

He also served and volleys real well. I had to return down the lines and finish with a crosscourt winner to take the point. It was pretty fun stuff.

Yes I swear. I have never seen anyone hit better drop shots in my life.

He uses a large Head racquet..like one of those 120s they make and strings at 48#s. He can also hit hard when he wants so, you can't just dink him around.

The way I take points off of him is by hitting well placed shots into the corners. If he gets a racquet on it, I run to the net because I know a perfectly placed dropper is coming.

I have watched him beat ex d1 guys from around the area and they never come back to the club again.

There's a local teaching pro around here that plays like that, too. He plays 5.0 USTA and tournaments, and when he plays competitively, he also trying to get into your head by making comments, hooking calls, and other borderline jackass moves that drive people nuts. I've seen many a match where he's beaten far superior players who he had completely broken down and left in a steaming pile by the end of the match. Another teaching pro called his racquet "the fishnet" because it is about 120 sq in and strung at 45 lbs.

He won the local county open tournament 2 years ago beating a kid who was a junior college national champion in a scintillating 3 set final. Last year, he was overpowered and blown off the court by a 16 year old high school kid in the quarters. I have never seen anyone do that to him before. There were a lot of people watching that match that left slackjawed.

 

[jdubbs]

Practiced serve and returns with a 5.0 junk baller.

He will stand inside the baseline, about 6 feet off the service line for every single return of serve. He said he does this to even the hardest servers. It was a pretty cool strategy. It forced me to hit well placed serves with some good pace so he would basically frame them. It is complete feast or famine, but his logic is that at the 5.0 and under level, most servers he has faced can not consistently place the ball in the corners of the box

If he got a hold of one, he could take all the pace off of it with a dropshot return that was impossible to get to.

If you hit him a second serve, it was over, dropshot no matter what. It took away any chance of hitting a kick serve, and forced me to hit only first serves both times or else he would drop shot any slice or topspin serve I sent him.

Afterwords he told me that many guys have quit midmatch and gotten frustrated, as some were ex College players and their egos could not handle it. lol.

He also served and volleys real well. I had to return down the lines and finish with a crosscourt winner to take the point. It was pretty fun stuff.

I played a guy the other day who is a 4.5 (I'm a 4.0). I was expecting a lot of power, but what I got was a lot of junk, no backhand, average serve. And lots of dropshots and lobs.
Yuck, what a crappy guy to have to play. I only played him one set, but don't want to play him again, and frankly, lost a lot of respect for him and his play.

BUT, knowing his style, I'm going to get ready to run down everything and play a little smarter. My fitness was terrible too, and that was part of the frustration.

 

[Power Player]

I have never played a 4.5 down here with no backhand..that would be a fantasy for me..lol.

Inside out topspin forehand all day long to him and follow it to net. It will be enjoyable if you do this.

 

[timeisonmyside]

And if it does, what level does it stop at? I played a guy on Saturday who only dinked or patted every ball back. He never actually hit the ball until he had pulled me up and wide and then he decided to actually hit the ball. If I attacked his short shots, he'd dink up a lob that I would have to run back to get and then drop shot me. It wasn't even playing tennis in my book.

I'm a 27 y/o 3.5 and I'm just sick of it. I like to hit with pace or at least against players that actually hit the ball. This is starting to make tennis unenjoyable for me because it seems that these are only types of players out there.

So does it ever stop, is there a hope that when I hit 4.0 it will get better or will I only be disappointed again?

"No it never stops." - Andy Murray.

 

[timeisonmyside]

Players like this want to be on the baseline chasing down balls and lobbing over you.

Why don't you try to put him in an uncomfortable situation. The short slice is awesome for this. Make him come to net and attack you, where he probably doesn't want to be. Then feast on the passing shots.

 

[Macro80]

Christ this guy sounds gutless. I would refuse to play him to, just like when I boxed I wouldn't fight holders.

Practiced serve and returns with a 5.0 junk baller.

He will stand inside the baseline, about 6 feet off the service line for every single return of serve. He said he does this to even the hardest servers. It was a pretty cool strategy. It forced me to hit well placed serves with some good pace so he would basically frame them. It is complete feast or famine, but his logic is that at the 5.0 and under level, most servers he has faced can not consistently place the ball in the corners of the box

If he got a hold of one, he could take all the pace off of it with a dropshot return that was impossible to get to.

If you hit him a second serve, it was over, dropshot no matter what. It took away any chance of hitting a kick serve, and forced me to hit only first serves both times or else he would drop shot any slice or topspin serve I sent him.

Afterwords he told me that many guys have quit midmatch and gotten frustrated, as some were ex College players and their egos could not handle it. lol.

He also served and volleys real well. I had to return down the lines and finish with a crosscourt winner to take the point. It was pretty fun stuff.

 

[Power Player]

Christ this guy sounds gutless. I would refuse to play him to, just like when I boxed I wouldn't fight holders.

why? He is a great player. I don't understand why you wouldnt want to play him.

To be honest, I think it takes guts to stand so close to the service box when someone is firing first serves at you.

 

[jdubbs]

I played another 4.5 yesterday.

This guy was legit. Great shots all around, outstanding net play, he blew me off the court in the first set. I hadn't played anyone like him in a long time.

So I started remembering how to hit with real power again, something I really like doing, and not just dealing with dinks and moonballs and junk.
I started really taking full cuts at the ball and using his pace against him.

My first serve started going in, I came to net more, I passed him when I needed to. Thought it was close, I won the second set 6-4. I was extremely happy with my play, and it really made me motivated to get to the 4.5 level as I really enjoy that type of power tennis.

So you'll see junk at all levels, but less at 4.5.

 

[Macro80]

why? He is a great player. I don't understand why you wouldnt want to play him.

To be honest, I think it takes guts to stand so close to the service box when someone is firing first serves at you.

It's a bit like spawn killing in a multiplayer shooter, this guy is just out to spoil the game.

 

[nickarnold2000]

I look at playing tennis like a safe cracker would look at a bank vault - as in, how can I crack the combination and open this thing up??
Different players bring different styles and, for me, it's always interesting going out there and competing. It's definitely easier to do so if you're comfortable hitting all the shots and not just staying back and nailing ground strokes all day.
I personally don't call up "pushers" to have a hit but if they're in my path at a tourney, I'll start thinking of strategy before I get on court. I would like to play the 5.0 who camps out on the baseline waiting for serves - it sounds like a challenge! Quitting or refusing to play is not an option. If I did lose then I would be wanting to figure out how I can win the next time. I don't fear losing but I do fear not improving.

 

[tennis tom]

I played a guy the other day who is a 4.5 (I'm a 4.0). I was expecting a lot of power, but what I got was a lot of junk, no backhand, average serve. And lots of dropshots and lobs.
Yuck, what a crappy guy to have to play. I only played him one set, but don't want to play him again, and frankly, lost a lot of respect for him and his play.

BUT, knowing his style, I'm going to get ready to run down everything and play a little smarter. My fitness was terrible too, and that was part of the frustration.

Who won?...

 

[pyrokid]

I'm not sure what level you are but if you can properly execute 5 cycles of dropshot followed by a lob, in one point mind you, and do it consistently enough for the duration of the match - my hats off to you.
OP stated he is about 3.5 - I have yet to see a video of a rally lasting 20 shots (5 dropshots + 5 returns + 5 lobs + 5 returns) at that level, any rally, not even a one with a plan.
So while advice is theoretically speaking sound, it is also, well, a bit unrealistic.

It's unrealistic, sure, but you have to consider the opponent is still a pusher. Meaning, not only will he most likely give you easy shots to lob back, but he'll probably also not go for an overhead if you put up a terrible lob, taking a lotta pressure off you.

 

[jdubbs]

Who won?...

Actually, as fate would have it we played again yesterday and i won...just one set though. He's a doubles specialist so lobbed me a lot, but my fitness was much better so I ran everything down and picked on his bh where he didn't have much power. I think he's more of a 4.0 at singles, anyway.

I played a more legit 4.5 the other day, we had a great match, splitting sets before running out of court time.

I want to play at the 4.5 level so I can leave all pushers behind.

 

[Power Player]

Played a 4.0 pusher yesterday and once I got my strokes together there was nothing he could do except chase down shots and lob them back until I hit a winner or a drop shot.

The prestige really is a pusher killer. Consistency and accurate placement is your friend against these types of players.