Double-faulting like crazy

[Craig8592505]

I hadn't played tennis in many years but I've decided to really get back into it and I'm playing in three leagues right now.

I was a decent high school player and never had that much trouble with double-faults. I was able to spin my second serves in pretty well.

But since I've been coming back, I've had a miserable time serving in league matches. In practice I'm ok, but under pressure my second serve is all over the place - long and in the net.

I settled on a KPro Open with Wilson NXT 16 at 58 lbs., however it doesn't seem like I get that much bite on the ball.

But clearly this is as much mental as anything else. It pains me to think that I'll have to start just pushing in my second serve instead of taking a full swing, but I'm double-faulting so much I don't know how much longer I can tolerate it. It is sucking all the fun out of playing.

Here is my approach to work through this - feedback welcome -

- Try out different strings to find one with more bite to generate easy spin giving me a better margin of error on my second serve.
- Visualize the ball going in (this hasn't worked so well for me so far)
- Practice serving, and specifically practice the second serve motion (more spin).

If there is anyone out there that has worked through a serious double-faulting problem, I'd love to hear what allowed you to work through it.

 

[phoenicks]

I used to double fault like crazy, but since I learn a proper kick serve, the other day I play with my varsity player, and I only double fault once !!!!!

seriously, I find that, when u fault the first serve, try to calm yourselves down, don't think about it and get over it, and just relax, focus on your toss and swing for the 2nd serve, it works much better, and reduce double fault by a lot.

If you think or are worried about double fault before ur 1st or second serve, u will usually end up doing 1, it's very self-fulfilling.

and by the way, I follow my coach advice to use exclusively kick serve for both my 1st and 2nd serve.

 

[MTXR]

I used to double fault like crazy, but since I learn a proper kick serve, the other day I play with my varsity player, and I only double fault once !!!!!

seriously, I find that, when u fault the first serve, try to calm yourselves down, don't think about it and get over it, and just relax, focus on your toss and swing for the 2nd serve, it works much better, and reduce double fault by a lot.

If you think or are worried about double fault before ur 1st or second serve, u will usually end up doing 1, it's very self-fulfilling.

and by the way, I follow my coach advice to use exclusively kick serve for both my 1st and 2nd serve.

That has helped me a lot. I do this too.

 

[tennisdad65]

^^ me too. I use a topspin serve for both first and second serve. ~20% first serves I use a slice.

For my topspin first serve, compared to my topspin second, I toss a bit further into the court, and have a bit more aggressive swing path.

 

[JakeHCoker]

I've gotten my serve to be my main weapon, but sometimes when I seem too confident I double-fault alot. So I've tried to be a positive player + and it's really seemed to help. But you know how it is when your in a big match, and you'd think you'd be nervous. But you just can't stand but to get over excited when your game is going great. That's what cause nearly all of my double faults.

 

[mawashi]

I hadn't played tennis in many years but I've decided to really get back into it and I'm playing in three leagues right now.

I was a decent high school player and never had that much trouble with double-faults. I was able to spin my second serves in pretty well.

But since I've been coming back, I've had a miserable time serving in league matches. In practice I'm ok, but under pressure my second serve is all over the place - long and in the net.

I settled on a KPro Open with Wilson NXT 16 at 58 lbs., however it doesn't seem like I get that much bite on the ball.

But clearly this is as much mental as anything else. It pains me to think that I'll have to start just pushing in my second serve instead of taking a full swing, but I'm double-faulting so much I don't know how much longer I can tolerate it. It is sucking all the fun out of playing.

Here is my approach to work through this - feedback welcome -

- Try out different strings to find one with more bite to generate easy spin giving me a better margin of error on my second serve.
- Visualize the ball going in (this hasn't worked so well for me so far)
- Practice serving, and specifically practice the second serve motion (more spin).

If there is anyone out there that has worked through a serious double-faulting problem, I'd love to hear what allowed you to work through it.

First, there's nothing wrong with your racquet or strings, don't blame them.

Sometimes you need to go back to basics to unlearn some of the bad habits along the way.

Focus on the basics and always do a routine that allows you to just focus on the toss, swing and follow through.

I love the vids on this site bout the serves as it really help me learn how to serve better and it really help me to improve my technique.

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/

Looks for the videos section on the left, expand the + button on the serve section and you have a whole bunch of vids to help you on serves and the rest.

Cheers,

mawashi

 

[phoenicks]

and btw, before the match, I find that watching federer serve video clips help me a lot, not that it will change or correct my technique, but I just notice how relax and smooth he executed his serve, especially after the trophy post, the scratchback and forward swing to contact. And I really make it a point to be totally relax after I get to my trophy post.

 

[matchmaker]

If they go in in practice, soon match play will follow. Just hit them, if you start to push your serve it will only worsen. The serve is the first thing to have trouble with after a long break.

 

[Element54]

Go for the cheeky underarm underspin second serve.

 

[Nellie]

Look to see if you are hitting long or short (into the net)?

I find that if I am hitting long, I am being too aggressive.

If I am hitting short, I am tensing up and need, for example to make sure my toss is high and I am taking my time between serves.

 

[FloridaAG]

When I double, it happens for 3 main reasons:

1. Drop tossing arm too early and/or head drop (into net)

2. Tensing up leading to lack of racquet speef (into net)

3. Bad toss - too far to my left and or behind - causing a loss of spin (long) -

 

[LuckyR]

I've gotten my serve to be my main weapon, but sometimes when I seem too confident I double-fault alot. So I've tried to be a positive player + and it's really seemed to help. But you know how it is when your in a big match, and you'd think you'd be nervous. But you just can't stand but to get over excited when your game is going great. That's what cause nearly all of my double faults.

The combination of these two statements is your problem. By the former you are getting an above average amount of service winners, but by the latter you are hitting way too many second serves (by going for low percentage first serves) and setting yourself for more DFs.

I would dial back my first serve and get the rest of your game up to the point where you are not relying on having a lot of service winners in order to win your service games. You will get many more of your first sevres in and you won't hardly ever hit a second serve and if you occasionally miss one for a DF it won't matter much so you won't lose your Mental focus about it (which is happening currently).

 

[mikeler]

I think FloridaAG has the symptoms down that cause me to excessively double fault too. My biggest flaw is the head drop/not watching the ball. Make sure that no matter what happens on each second serve, you are going to keep your head up to watch the ball. I find it much easier to focus on the ball just serving balls than playing a match. The reason I think is that you are worried about what your opponent has planned for your 2nd serve during the match and you instinctively want to look down to see what he/she is up to.

Once you get yourself focusing on the ball, guess what? You are still going to double fault. You are human. Don't become a dinker because I've seen plenty of those folks have double fault problems too. It's just a phase, you'll get through it. I go in the double fault funk every now and then. Once I get back to watching the ball, it irons itself out. Good luck.

 

[40lovebaby]

I hadn't played tennis in many years but I've decided to really get back into it and I'm playing in three leagues right now.

I was a decent high school player and never had that much trouble with double-faults. I was able to spin my second serves in pretty well.

But since I've been coming back, I've had a miserable time serving in league matches. In practice I'm ok, but under pressure my second serve is all over the place - long and in the net.

I settled on a KPro Open with Wilson NXT 16 at 58 lbs., however it doesn't seem like I get that much bite on the ball.

But clearly this is as much mental as anything else. It pains me to think that I'll have to start just pushing in my second serve instead of taking a full swing, but I'm double-faulting so much I don't know how much longer I can tolerate it. It is sucking all the fun out of playing.

Here is my approach to work through this - feedback welcome -

- Try out different strings to find one with more bite to generate easy spin giving me a better margin of error on my second serve.
- Visualize the ball going in (this hasn't worked so well for me so far)
- Practice serving, and specifically practice the second serve motion (more spin).

If there is anyone out there that has worked through a serious double-faulting problem, I'd love to hear what allowed you to work through it.

When you practice your serve, don't just practice hitting a serve - specifically practice your second serve. In my opinion, the second serve requires more practice than the first, since if you miss it, you lose a point.

I do a drill where I hit first serves until I miss one, and if I do miss one, I force myself to hit 10 second serves in the box in a row. If I miss one of those, I start the count over until I get to 10. Now, I don't just powder puff the second serves in, I hit spin serves. At first I hit them only in the middle of the box, but as I got better and better and 2nd serves, I started directing my second serves deeper in the box and to the corners.

I served a couple baskets of balls at a time, a couple days a week, for several weeks, and suddenly my 2nd serve was deadly.

Now I'm working on hitting a slice out wide for my second serve, so that opponents can't come in and pressure my kick.

The practice is important though.

 

[mozzer]

Depends how you are getting the double faults. In the net or long? You still need to take a full swing and maybe try to hit it 3/4 pace. When i first started i served every game of double faults. But i just went down and practiced on my own and now serve is one of the biggest parts of my game.

 

[In D Zone]

If you continue to experince double faulting problems. You might want to check your serving stance and position.

Siggestions:
- If you are using platform when on your second serve (slice or kick). Try changing it to a pin point stance. Or Vice versa.
- Try not to jump or bending too much while serve. Keep it simple - adding movement can alter your timing which will result in over hitting or hitting to the net. Just toss and swing. Trust me - I was double faulting alot and noticed I was trying too hard do the other stuff (jumping or bending too low) - I kept every simple and my serve came back.
- If Kick serve is not working... got back to the slice , topspin or slice- topspin serves. Funnything is that alot of the guys here kept emphasising the kick as the way to go for 2nd. YEs - a serve is only as good as it lands with in service box. But if you can't or just plain having an off day.... what then? Learn a back up serve so you can stay in the game and play it out.
- Ball Toss: Keep your toss consistent.
- change the height of the toss. ; keep the ball toss slow and eye on the ball till you made contact with the ball (blurs out)
- Don't focus on the power or the heavy spin of the serve. Focus more on placement first; goal is making sure each serve goes in. As the game progress, you'll get more into the groove - then you can start adding a little more racquet speed to generate more pop.

Lastly - don't get rattled. If your second serve getting pounded (you are not alone- you'll see that ever once in awhile especially when you are playing better opponent) - DO NOT PANIC. Most of the time - you'll try to hit your serve even hard. BIG NO NO! Again - you are moving away from your comfort zone and overplaying yourself will yield more errors. Calm down! Focus on serving to the body or the weaker side of your opponent. Study the where the opponent like to hit his/ her returns so you can attack his return immediately.

 

[Dags]

1. Drop tossing arm too early and/or head drop (into net)

I started again after 10 years away, and was having similar problems. A coach watched me serve 9/10 balls into the net, and told me I was dropping my arm too soon. The next 9/10 sailed in. It was like flipping some magic switch: if only all my problems were fixed so easily.

If you can, have someone watch you. I didn't even realise what I was doing, and if it hadn't been pointed out to me then I'd probably still be struggling. If someone knowledgeable confirms that you're mechanically sound, then you can consider any psychological issues.

 

[nyc]

My biggest flaw is the head drop/not watching the ball. Make sure that no matter what happens on each second serve, you are going to keep your head up to watch the ball.

I was going to suggest that exact thing. Sounds like you get the match jitters and overly concerned about serve placement. The single most effective thing to fix your double faulting IMO is to focus on your toss and keep watching the ball through your serving motion.

 

[FloridaAG]

I started again after 10 years away, and was having similar problems. A coach watched me serve 9/10 balls into the net, and told me I was dropping my arm too soon. The next 9/10 sailed in. It was like flipping some magic switch: if only all my problems were fixed so easily.

If you can, have someone watch you. I didn't even realise what I was doing, and if it hadn't been pointed out to me then I'd probably still be struggling. If someone knowledgeable confirms that you're mechanically sound, then you can consider any psychological issues.

Perhaps I was not clear, I do not have a particular problem with double faulting and do not do so frequently - but when I do double it is usually a result of one of these 3 things. I have no problem diagnosing the problem and know what happened - I was providing common reasons for either a netted or long serve to help the OP.

 

[Dags]

Perhaps I was not clear, I do not have a particular problem with double faulting and do not do so frequently - but when I do double it is usually a result of one of these 3 things. I have no problem diagnosing the problem and know what happened - I was providing common reasons for either a netted or long serve to help the OP.

I think it was me who wasn't clear - I quoted the toss up in your list to highlight that it was my exact problem, and agreeing it was a common reason . My post was aimed at the OP rather than you.

 

[mikeler]

I rarely have double fault problems either. I just wanted to point out what I focused on during the rare matches where I do encounter the problem.

 

[Craig8592505]

Well, here I am three months later, and I can tell you what has NOT helped improve my second serve consistency - playing matches. And because that is pretty much all I do, I'm pretty much in the same boat I was when I posted this thread months ago.

On particularly bad days of double-faulting, I think about giving up on tennis again, because it is embarrassing, frustrating, and most of all, not fun to be double-faulting all over the place.

Last night I started my match with three double-faults. And then throughout the match I probably got maybe 50% of my second serves in. I was in most of the games, but lost 2 and 1. I just kept giving away points left and right on my second serve. Maddening. But I refuse to start dinking the ball in.

 

[Okazaki Fragment]

Well, here I am three months later, and I can tell you what has NOT helped improve my second serve consistency - playing matches. And because that is pretty much all I do, I'm pretty much in the same boat I was when I posted this thread months ago.

On particularly bad days of double-faulting, I think about giving up on tennis again, because it is embarrassing, frustrating, and most of all, not fun to be double-faulting all over the place.

Last night I started my match with three double-faults. And then throughout the match I probably got maybe 50% of my second serves in. I was in most of the games, but lost 2 and 1. I just kept giving away points left and right on my second serve. Maddening. But I refuse to start dinking the ball in.

Grip your racquet lower with your pinky off or almost off the handle. It will feel really strange at first but you'll get more protanation and spin.

 

[mikeler]

Craig,

This sounds like a fairly new problem so I'm guessing your mechanics are correct right? So now we know this is probably a mental issue. How about aiming for the exact middle of the service box on all your 2nd serves until you work out the problem?

 

[LeeD]

Hit 100 second serves swinging your normal speed. At least 95 should go in.
If your percentage is better, then up the game, swing faster.
If your percentage is worse than 95%, slow down your swing and practice till it goes in 95 out of 100.
Knowing you can hit better than 95%, you can choose the second serve you need to GET IN in critical situations, and when you're up or down 40-15, you can wing it with a zipper.

 

[mg.dc]

In the first place, don't start pushing your second serve. That's not the solution your looking for.

In the second place, here's the best advice I've read in this post. Keep your head up. Focus on the contact zone. Maintain your gaze there. Let your gaze linger there through the stroke. To be sure, this takes practice and patience. But have faith in proper stroke mechanics. In this regard, by far, Federer is the best.

Here's another good tip I read. Try keeping a bit of your hand off the end of the grip. Keep all your fingers on the grip, but leave a part of your hand off it. Federer does this on his groundstrokes. (I don't necessarily believe this advice a fundamental thing but rather a more advanced thing. Perhaps you should try it nevertheless. In fact, think about trying it on your groundstrokes too.)

Other than that, practice serving.

One last thing. Don't get frustrated. Simply accept, rather, that you're struggling; that in the meanwhile you're going to lose many points, games, and matches. That is, however, until you improve and become more and more consistent. And then, when you have become more consistent: practice not only getting it in, but also strategically placing it: for example, high and wide kickers to your opponent's backhand.

This is why playing tennis is so fun. There's always something to improve on. And the second serve happens to be your thing. So go out there and double fault and give away matches. But at the same time enjoy the process of improving and developing your game.

 

[mikeler]

Welcome to the boards mg.dc. Very thoughtful comments. I think all of us have run into the double fault gremlins at some point in our careers. The worst thing you can do is become a dinker. Have you guys seen Coria lately? That guy double faults worse than a club player now. He has been playing tennis his entire life, so there is nothing wrong with his form. It's just some mental funk he is in.

 

[Craig8592505]

This is why playing tennis is so fun. There's always something to improve on. And the second serve happens to be your thing. So go out there and double fault and give away matches. But at the same time enjoy the process of improving and developing your game.

That's good advice for sure. I've actually done a decent job of excepting it, especially during a match. It would be very easy for me to let the frustration build and build until I'm at racquet-breaking-I-should-just-forfeit-this-stupid-match level, but I've learned that my play deteriorates quickly the more frustration I hang on to.

What I find difficult is maintaining enough focus so that my form is good, but not so much focus that I'm overthinking it.

There is certainly a life lesson in here somewhere. Do I want to be a person that gives up when something gets difficult and frustrating, or do I want to be the person that looks back on this as an example of when I perservered until I made it work?

 

[Djokovicfan4life]

I hadn't played tennis in many years, but I've decided to really get back into it and I'm playing in three leagues right now.

I was a decent high school player and never had that much trouble with double-faults. I was able to spin my second serves in pretty well.

But since I've been coming back, I've had a miserable time serving in league matches. In practice I'm ok, but under pressure my second serve is all over the place - long and in the net.

I settled on a KPro Open with Wilson NXT 16 at 58 lbs., however it doesn't seem like I get that much bite on the ball.

But clearly this is as much mental as anything else. It pains me to think that I'll have to start just pushing in my second serve instead of taking a full swing, but I'm double-faulting so much I don't know how much longer I can tolerate it. It is sucking all the fun out of playing.

Here is my approach to work through this - feedback welcome -

- Try out different strings to find one with more bite to generate easy spin giving me a better margin of error on my second serve.
- Visualize the ball going in (this hasn't worked so well for me so far)
- Practice serving, and specifically practice the second serve motion (more spin).

If there is anyone out there that has worked through a serious double-faulting problem, I'd love to hear what allowed you to work through it.

I think that the bolded sections of your post will help you the most. You said that you hadn't played in a while, which explains the problem with nerves. You are absolutely doing the right thing though by getting a lot of match play. The double faults will begin to decrease as you grow more accustomed to dealing with your nerves. And of course practice always helps, no brainer there.

Good luck with your second serve. I've struggled with double faults a lot in the past myself, but I'm starting to cut down on it though playing practice sets with my brother. Just imagine how solid it would be if I was playing in three different leagues like you are!

Seriously though, don't change a thing. You're doing all the right things and I really think that the double faults will stop as you grow in confidence.

 

[jrod]

Hit 100 second serves swinging your normal speed. At least 95 should go in.
If your percentage is better, then up the game, swing faster.
If your percentage is worse than 95%, slow down your swing and practice till it goes in 95 out of 100.
Knowing you can hit better than 95%, you can choose the second serve you need to GET IN in critical situations, and when you're up or down 40-15, you can wing it with a zipper.

I agree with this approach. You should be able to hit 95% of your 2nd serves in the box with good placement. As for mechanics, you may need to get some hands-on help there (outside of people posting all sorts of suggestions here, some of which are very good).

 

[Djokovicfan4life]

Well, here I am three months later, and I can tell you what has NOT helped improve my second serve consistency - playing matches. And because that is pretty much all I do, I'm pretty much in the same boat I was when I posted this thread months ago.

On particularly bad days of double-faulting, I think about giving up on tennis again, because it is embarrassing, frustrating, and most of all, not fun to be double-faulting all over the place.

Last night I started my match with three double-faults. And then throughout the match I probably got maybe 50% of my second serves in. I was in most of the games, but lost 2 and 1. I just kept giving away points left and right on my second serve. Maddening. But I refuse to start dinking the ball in.

How much time have you spent over the last few months practicing your second serve? Be honest.

 

[LeeD]

Methinks you have to have the mechanics and consistency FIRST, and then work on your wandering mind walkabouts or self induced pressures.
I doubt you can hit 47 out of 50 second serves into the spot you want to hit it.
Get that down first.
And by "hit", I mean an oval shaped spinning tennis ball that arcs into the court with lots of margin for error and still somewhat deep about 2' inside the opponents service court.
You do NOT practice hitting your second serves 1' from the service line of your opponents court. No margin for error.

 

[Craig8592505]

How much time have you spent over the last few months practicing you second serve? Be honest.

Like I said, I'm mostly just playing matches, with the infrequent hitting sessions and even less frequent serving practice with a bucket of balls. The weather is pretty crappy in Charlotte this time of year, and while I don't mind playing in 40-degree temps, going out to practice my serve by myself on a cold and gray day isn't very appealing.

So certainly I need to help myself more with practice. I make a point to arrive early for matches and warm-up my serve as best I can, but that isn't the same as really practicing, that just gets my arm loose (which does help my serve somewhat, but doesn't overcome these major issues I'm talking about).

Another potential problem I have is that I still really haven't settled on a racquet. I would play with my K95 18x20 VS Gut 17 @ 60 lbs all the time, but it makes my arm sore. So if I think I'll be playing for over an hour, I use a Prestige Pro MP, same string/tension. And obviously it doesn't help my consistency to switch racquets like that. I might restring the K95 at a lower tension to see if that makes it arm-friendly enough for full-time use.

 

[Djokovicfan4life]

Like I said, I'm mostly just playing matches, with the infrequent hitting sessions and even less frequent serving practice with a bucket of balls. The weather is pretty crappy in Charlotte this time of year, and while I don't mind playing in 40-degree temps, going out to practice my serve by myself on a cold and gray day isn't very appealing.

So certainly I need to help myself more with practice. I make a point to arrive early for matches and warm-up my serve as best I can, but that isn't the same as really practicing, that just gets my arm loose (which does help my serve somewhat, but doesn't overcome these major issues I'm talking about).

Another potential problem I have is that I still really haven't settled on a racquet. I would play with my K95 18x20 VS Gut 17 @ 60 lbs all the time, but it makes my arm sore. So if I think I'll be playing for over an hour, I use a Prestige Pro MP, same string/tension. And obviously it doesn't help my consistency to switch racquets like that. I might restring the K95 at a lower tension to see if that makes it arm-friendly enough for full-time use.

Yeah, 40 degrees is fine for serving, it's the rallies that suck in cold weather. I'm not particularly fond of digging out low ball after low ball with my semi western forehand grip.

 

[LeeD]

If it's deemed too cold, you shadow serve in front of a mirror at least as many times as needed. Indoors, in your living room, your bedroom, the garage, I don't care....NO excuse for double faults.
Don't blame the racket. It knows what to do, it's you that doesn't.
I mostly play with a Mfil Dunlop 200 18x20 with the deadest strings I can find, 15 gauge 62 lbs.
I sometimes switch to a 2 oz lighter Prince 115 OS T-stick strung at 68lbs. super stiff for competitive doubles. Maybe I don't play well, but I don't double fault! I KNOW the bigger racket exxagerates my spin, so I account for it. And for the first serve, I KNOW the smaller racket swings faster, so I account for it.
There is no greater difference in rackets than the two I mentioned. Sure, it might affect my low volleys and half volleys, but that's about all.
If I can double fault once every match, I know I didn't practice or concentrate well enough. Gots nothing to do with which racket I used.

 

[mikeler]

Weather permitting, I would definitely recommend hitting a bucket of serves when you can. The few times when I have had double fault problems in a match, it usually just takes one session of hitting only 2nd serves to get everything back on track before the next match.

 

[mikeler]

I recently went 3 matches without double faults, but that is because I have had an elbow problem forcing me to hit only 2nd serves. That is another thing you may want to try. Even the pros double fault occasionally, nobody is perfect.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

...

- Try out different strings to find one with more bite to generate easy spin giving me a better margin of error on my second serve.
- Visualize the ball going in (this hasn't worked so well for me so far)
- Practice serving, and specifically practice the second serve motion (more spin)...

Number 1 is going to have very little effect according to Technical Tennis.

Number 2 and 3 should help quite a bit. How is your toss? The toss can a significant impact on your serving consistency. Make sure that you are extending your tossing arm after release -- so that it goes vertical. Keep this arm up until your racket drop (behind your back).

The extended tossing hand should serve as an excellent spatial reference for your ball toss -- if you really see the relationship of the ball position to your outstretched arm, your brain & serving muscles will make the necessary adjustments for each toss. Be sure to keep your eyes fixed on the ball or the expected contact point for as long as possible -- this should help with your timing and muscle adjustments.

 

[mikeler]

I tend to watch the ball much longer when I keep my toss arm extended like SystemicAnomaly says.

 

[li0scc0]

Hit 100 second serves swinging your normal speed. At least 95 should go in.
If your percentage is better, then up the game, swing faster.
If your percentage is worse than 95%, slow down your swing and practice till it goes in 95 out of 100.
Knowing you can hit better than 95%, you can choose the second serve you need to GET IN in critical situations, and when you're up or down 40-15, you can wing it with a zipper.

95? I could tap the ball as slow as possible and 95% would not go in.