Doubles Positioning Question

[Cindysphinx]

I had something come up in a recent doubles match, and it has me somewhat puzzled.

I was playing 4.0 and I was serving. I was struggling to hold serve because I wasn't handling the returns well (nothing remarkable, just stupid UEs on my part). My partner wasn't able to get into the points.

She came back to me and said she wanted me to serve as wide as possible to the deuce court (my serve has right-handed slice) and she would poach the return. I must have given her a funny look, because she explained that if the serve was really wide the returner wouldn't likely try to go down the line.

Sure enough, she was right. No matter how much slice I put on the ball, no matter far wide the returner was drawn, she didn't go up the line. She yanked it harder and harder crosscourt (but the spin gave her trouble and she missed some).

Now. Here's my question.

Is there anything to the idea that returners will tend not to go up the line when they are pulled way off the court? If so, does it hold true for BH and FH returns?

In the past, I would have thought the server's partner couldn't poach a very wide ball, so I wouldn't even try. Now I wonder if I was incorrect about that.

 

[larry10s]

cindy i think it has to depend on how wide the contact point is and the tendencies of the net player.my first inclination when pulled wide in doubles is to play the game of angle begets angle(ie try to return with a more severe angle).
if the net player poaches i of course will go around the net pole to go down the line and beat the net player.
its always see what they do and adjust
same concept on the ad side
still beleive serve up the t 80% of the time unless one side is noticeably weaker.

 

[1stVolley]

The tendency is to return crosscourt for 2 reasons: (1) the net is lower at that point and (2) a crosscourt return sends the ball back in the same direction as it came; changing the direction of a ball is normally a tougher shot as it requires more exact timing

For general positioning purposes, if the receiver on the opposing team has the ball and he or she is cross court from you, then you should stand as if there's an imaginary line from where they are through the middle of the net to where you should be. If the receiver is on the same side of the court as you, then imagine a mirror flat in the middle with a rounded corner on the outside. This means that you stand directly in front of the opponent UNLESS the opponent is way into the alley. Then, you do NOT go into the alley but turn to face them, taking perhaps a step or two further towards that alley. This will put you in the middle of the probable return zone (and that is the deciding factor on where to stand)

An excellent doubles strategy book, that covers all this in very clear detail is Pat Blaskower's "The Art of Doubles". I highly recommend this for all doubles players.

 

[USERNAME]

When pulled wide the easiest shot is to put it back in the same direction, so a crosscourt shot would be the choice of most players. Knowing this means you can move to poach without a whole lot of fear of getting beat dtl. Changing the direction of the ball while moving isn't easy so even if they try the dtl winner, they will most likely miss more then they make. Now doing this 100% of the time is a bad idea unless your opponent refuses to adjust. Also just to add, on the off chance they make a dtl return be moving to cover it after the serve. (these poaches should be planned not random, unless a sitter pops up)

 

[cak]

I would have gone with your theory. Certainly, when I'm pulled wide I tend to go down the line, or at least lob over the net player so I have time to get back in position. Especially if the net person moves away from the alley. So I don't know why that worked. Perhaps the spin on your serve kept your opponent from changing direction on the ball?

 

[Geezer Guy]

I too am kinda surprised that worked. If you're serving wide and your partner is poaching, they're going to have to leave a bit early to cover the wide return (or else they'll get burned). Problem is if they leave too early the returner will see and just poke the ball down the line. Doesn't even have to be that great of a return.

But, maybe this was just one of those returners that always goes CC. I was playing against a guy like that today. Every return was cross-court, no matter how much we poached.

 

[Rui]

Clearly, the returner couldn't go DTL. If she could, your partner would have been pinned to her alley and you would have been chasing really wide balls.

 

[Topaz]

Angles beget angles. It is much easier and higher percentage shot to return it back to the direction it came. To change direction on the ball (and take it down the line over the highest part of the net) is not the smartest shot. Some can do it, sure, but it usually results in an error.

 

[brad1730]

I agree with Topaz. I will sometimes play with an older group of guys, and it seems that guys over their 60's seem to own the angled return. I wish I had a flat, sharp angled return. It's deadly.

 

[tennis tom]

It's one more serve in your quiver. If you keep hitting the same serve to the same spot, a good player will adjust to it. If they can't make the adjustment, keep hitting there for cheap points.

Your righty serve will not work as well to the add court because you have to hit it flat for it to go wide on that side and it is a much more difficult serve to hit accurately.

Great players like Sampras and Federer, didn't necessarily serve the fastest like Roddick or Tanner. Great players have all the serves (slice, flat and top-spin), and can hit all the spots. They use them successfully to keep their opponents guessing and off-balance.

 

[Steady Eddy]

She should have gone down the line. She blew it by always trying to go cross-court. I wouldn't expect too many opponents to fall for this, though.

 

[cak]

She should have gone down the line. She blew it by always trying to go cross-court. I wouldn't expect too many opponents to fall for this, though.

I agree with Steady Eddy, but if its working for you, why change it. I wouldn't say it would work often, but certainly its worth trying, because sometimes you'll run into someone like this opponent.

 

[andfor]

Aside from going down the line occasionally when pulled wide I'm wondering why this deuce court returner did not try to lob.

Not seeing what kind of FH grip your opponent was holding but based on your story, I'm guessing continental. Many folks with continental FH's have a tendency to hit cross-court and struggle with down-the-line.

 

[penpal]

Sounds like your partner either knew this opponent's tendencies, or got very lucky. Everything I've always read says that you should serve up the "T" the majority of the time in doubles precisely because it gives your net partner a better opportunity to poach, as it is very difficult to return down the line when the serve is hit up the "T".

 

[LeeD]

Your opponents suck, are stupid, and don't use proper repost.
Anyone smart would see the wide serve, see you moving forwards towards the net, and lob DTL....at any level 3.0 and up.
Anyone stupid would keep trying the same worthless crosscourt return, over and over again, into your netperson's forehand volley.

 

[LuckyR]

I had something come up in a recent doubles match, and it has me somewhat puzzled.

I was playing 4.0 and I was serving. I was struggling to hold serve because I wasn't handling the returns well (nothing remarkable, just stupid UEs on my part). My partner wasn't able to get into the points.

She came back to me and said she wanted me to serve as wide as possible to the deuce court (my serve has right-handed slice) and she would poach the return. I must have given her a funny look, because she explained that if the serve was really wide the returner wouldn't likely try to go down the line.

Sure enough, she was right. No matter how much slice I put on the ball, no matter far wide the returner was drawn, she didn't go up the line. She yanked it harder and harder crosscourt (but the spin gave her trouble and she missed some).

Now. Here's my question.

Is there anything to the idea that returners will tend not to go up the line when they are pulled way off the court? If so, does it hold true for BH and FH returns?

In the past, I would have thought the server's partner couldn't poach a very wide ball, so I wouldn't even try. Now I wonder if I was incorrect about that.

In my experience the posters on this thread are both right: it is easy to return up the line and it is easy to put a big angle on the ball. Given that, the netman should cover the alley. The exception to this, is if the returner is obviously going to hit CC all of the time, which your partner figured out.

Of course this thread is the reason why most doubles serves should go up the T or at least be a body serve.