Mike Werblin
Rookie
Can anyone compare the new Dunlop 4D 200-95(18x20) and the new Prince EX03 Rebel 95.
Which one feels softer/flexier??
Which one feels softer/flexier??
Dunlop 4D 200(18x20) VS. Prince EX03 Rebel 95
- Thread starter Mike Werblin
- Start date
sandflea
Rookie
I have both, they are very different sticks because of the more head light balance of the rebel. I generate more spin with the dunlop, power is more abundant with the rebel. Easier to slice with the rebel, both have large sweetspots(rebel is bigger). Control is a wash, but the dunlop feels way more solid and can play well with any style. I felt the rebel catered more to a serve and volley type style(I'm sure other styles also play the racket though). To get the rebel to play the way I would like it to play I would need to put lead in the head to get the balance more in line with what I like... but it probably would make the stick too heavy for my tastes. It's a good racket, just not my cup of tea.
Mike Werblin
Rookie
Thanks! So Sandflea, which of the two do you find softer/flexier??
mutantducky
Semi-Pro
ugh no rebel for me. I'm another of those anti-rebel people. 200 easily with the knockout.
Tennis_dude ^_^
Semi-Pro
so if your an all courter who wants alot of topspin and control
which one do you go for
which one do you go for
Chicken Neck
Rookie
Had the 200 and I have the Rebel and I think the Rebel is superior in every respect. This was really a surprise to me as I have really hated all of the recent offerings from Prince. The Rebel, however, is great and is now my regular stick.
ksixone95
Rookie
Guess everyone has their own opinions:razz: It's up to you, Mike. Demo both and see which one you like.
Winners or Errors
Legend
Opinions. I personally hated the Rebel, which was strung at the upper end of the tension range with a multi and just had too much dwell time/trampoline, even with the string hole grommets.
I just picked up some M-Fil 200s, the predecessor to the AG200, and the feel is much crisper and more solid, even at the bottom of the tension range.
I agree with the people who recommend demoing the racquets. I didn't demo my M-Fils, but having played with two earlier generations of Dunlop racquets and knowing the specs, I pretty much knew what to expect. Got lucky.
Chicken Neck
Rookie
Well you know the old saying about opinions: they're like a*****es everyones got one and they all stink. A demo on the other hand is like a Porche, there is no substitute.
Fed Kennedy
Legend
Dunlop all the way. I think the old ag200 is better than the 4D
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
I have recently been trying both of these and would like to re-open this comparison discussion.
Here are my findings so far:
Most people claim the Rebel has more power, but I think power levels are almost identical, so power shouldn't be part of the decision. The are both relatively low powered sticks that require good technique and long strokes to get any performance out of them. Although personally, I felt the 200 had slightly more pop and liveliness. BTW, I have the same multi in both sticks, strung at 52 for the Rebel and 57 for the 200.
The 200 is less HL balance and feels it. The swingweights are identical but you feel the head of the 200 more through the swingzone and the Rebel feels "whippier". I feel like the Rebel needs a little more user input and the 200 swings itself more....if that makes any sense.
Feel....the Rebel definitely feels "plusher" and is easier on the elbow. I can play all day with the Rebel and my arm will feel fresh. With the 200, there is a slight, slight pain afterwards, but nothing that doesn't go away the next day. The 200 feels more firm and solid at impact....not soft, not stiff...just solid. The 200 also makes a great "POW" sound, which I love.
These 2 sticks are very similar indeed....same swingweights and same closed patterns. For some reason, I feel like the AG200 is a more all-around stick and the Rebel more of a baseline stick, but don't ask me why
As far as choosing between them, I think it will depend on which balance and feel you like better. They are both great choices and would both probabaly do the job if you either one.
Would love to hear from anyone else who has tried both of these and what was your reasoning for picking one over the other?
Here are my findings so far:
Most people claim the Rebel has more power, but I think power levels are almost identical, so power shouldn't be part of the decision. The are both relatively low powered sticks that require good technique and long strokes to get any performance out of them. Although personally, I felt the 200 had slightly more pop and liveliness. BTW, I have the same multi in both sticks, strung at 52 for the Rebel and 57 for the 200.
The 200 is less HL balance and feels it. The swingweights are identical but you feel the head of the 200 more through the swingzone and the Rebel feels "whippier". I feel like the Rebel needs a little more user input and the 200 swings itself more....if that makes any sense.
Feel....the Rebel definitely feels "plusher" and is easier on the elbow. I can play all day with the Rebel and my arm will feel fresh. With the 200, there is a slight, slight pain afterwards, but nothing that doesn't go away the next day. The 200 feels more firm and solid at impact....not soft, not stiff...just solid. The 200 also makes a great "POW" sound, which I love.
These 2 sticks are very similar indeed....same swingweights and same closed patterns. For some reason, I feel like the AG200 is a more all-around stick and the Rebel more of a baseline stick, but don't ask me why
As far as choosing between them, I think it will depend on which balance and feel you like better. They are both great choices and would both probabaly do the job if you either one.Would love to hear from anyone else who has tried both of these and what was your reasoning for picking one over the other?
Power Player
Bionic Poster
200 > rebel for me.
200 feels more solid, has a better balance and is more suited to my game. I also get very heavy spin with it. So far after over a month with it, I have 0 complaints at all. It also has a far better paint job if you want to get superficial.
200 feels more solid, has a better balance and is more suited to my game. I also get very heavy spin with it. So far after over a month with it, I have 0 complaints at all. It also has a far better paint job if you want to get superficial
.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
200 > rebel for me.
200 feels more solid, has a better balance and is more suited to my game. I also get very heavy spin with it. So far after over a month with it, I have 0 complaints at all. It also has a far better paint job if you want to get superficial
PP, I still have 1 of each and will be deciding soon. I restrung both low with full multi and get good power now from each. Now its just down to which "feel" I like more and it's not going to be easy. If I didn't get elbow twinges, I would pick the AG200 hands down. But the Rebel is just sooooo comfy. I can hit that thing all day and my arm will feel like I just woke up. The 200 DEFINITLEY feels a teeny tiny bit more stiff, but I have to play with it some more to see if it's enough to bother me.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
I think the 200 is "spinnier" due it more balance towards the head
and hits SLIGHTLY "heavier", but these are tiny differences IMO.
I think it depends on if you like your swing "whippier" (Rebel) or more
plow thru (200).
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yes, the 4d plows thru way better then the Rebel. The Rebel was a very wristy feeling stick. My friend who uses it has very wristy strokes so it makes sense. When you hit with the 4d and it is a clean shot, the racquet feels like a solid piece just crushing the ball. I never got that feeling with the Rebel.
kittogi
Rookie
I really like the M-Fil 200 18x20. At first I hated it, because I strung it with full poly at 59 lbs. But, when I lowered my tension to 52 and used a softer sting, it made a big difference. The control and feel that I can get is quite outstanding. I mean, I used to play with Aerogel 300 16x18 and I like that stick. But, when I made the adjustment to the M-Fil 200 18x20, I think I've found the one that I'm going to be sticking for a while.
By the way, I really had to work hard (meaning pump irons) to be comfortable with the 12.0 oz M-Fil 200 18x20.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
The M-fil swings a little lighter to me then the 4d, but I can switch between the 2 if need be.
I have it in a hybrid at 62#s and it crushes really hard. I hate full poly in the Dunlop personally. I think the 18x20 pattern begs for it to be a hybrid or full multi/SGut setup.
I have it in a hybrid at 62#s and it crushes really hard. I hate full poly in the Dunlop personally. I think the 18x20 pattern begs for it to be a hybrid or full multi/SGut setup.
kittogi
Rookie
I agree! I'll try hybrid next time.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Well, I found a racquet I like even better than the AG 4D200 AND the Rebel......
The Becker 11 MP. Played with it tonite and LOVED it! Plays like a softer feeling, more arm friendly AG200. Slightly lighter sw (328) but great "buttery" feeling at contact and my arm felt great after 2 hours of hitting. Had no problem getting spin out of the 18x20 pattern, which suprised me. Nice balance and weight and just a great all around stick. Volleys, serves, groundies, slices, flatties......all great. In fact, I really couldn't find anything wrong with it other that it being slightly lighter than my preferred swingweingt (335). A little lead at 3/9 and handle to keep balance intact and I should be good to go. I may even leave it stock, as its only a tad light.
I have to admit, the AG200 feels more "solid" at impact, but also felt a tiny bit stiffer to me than the BB11. The Becker feels great too, but its just a "different" kind of feeling. I think I will be sticking with this one for a while. While I was playing with it I wasn't wishing it was more this or less that...I just played.
The Becker 11 MP. Played with it tonite and LOVED it! Plays like a softer feeling, more arm friendly AG200. Slightly lighter sw (328) but great "buttery" feeling at contact and my arm felt great after 2 hours of hitting. Had no problem getting spin out of the 18x20 pattern, which suprised me. Nice balance and weight and just a great all around stick. Volleys, serves, groundies, slices, flatties......all great. In fact, I really couldn't find anything wrong with it other that it being slightly lighter than my preferred swingweingt (335). A little lead at 3/9 and handle to keep balance intact and I should be good to go. I may even leave it stock, as its only a tad light.
I have to admit, the AG200 feels more "solid" at impact, but also felt a tiny bit stiffer to me than the BB11. The Becker feels great too, but its just a "different" kind of feeling. I think I will be sticking with this one for a while. While I was playing with it I wasn't wishing it was more this or less that...I just played.
Winners or Errors
Legend
That's funny. To each his own. I'm grooving right now with 58 lbs, full Cyber Flash 1.25, and any time I go to softer string I have to go up to 65 (max tension). Of course, I jump out of my shoes at every opportunity, so I like a firmer feeling string-bed.
As for the weight, I agree about the M-Fil, but the only time I've struggled with its weight has been on the doubles court. It fits my style perfectly for singles, which I'd much rather play.
Winners or Errors
Legend
Did you, perchance, also swing the first AG200? I am curious about how my current M-Fils compare. I like the weight I have, and the flex. Radically different? In your opinion, should I be looking for more M-Fils, or is the latest version a worthy upgrade?
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I prefer the 4D. It is the best 200 I have hit with, and I also owned an AG200. The only 200 that is on the same level is the Revelation, but that is a bit lighter of a racquet.
The 4d 200 is an incredible racquet. Flexible with tons of feel and control, but extremely solid like it is one piece of graphite. Definitley demo it.
The 4d 200 is an incredible racquet. Flexible with tons of feel and control, but extremely solid like it is one piece of graphite. Definitley demo it.
PP, Jack, others,
Would like to hear a bit more detail re the 4D 200 and how it performs on serve, and quite what the topspin is like on groundies...
Having said "goodbye" to the Rad Pro, I'm kind of on the look out again and this frame appeals in lots ways. My concern is I presently like a topspin friendly frame for groundies (surely that closed pattern isn't going to generate anything like the topspin a Rad Pro, or a PST, or TF 320 can all generate?) And secondly, how much flat power is accessible re serve?... anything like the Reb (which I personally found very powerful to serve with)?
Thanks,
R.
BTW, Yes, I know it's the player who generates the topspin and not the racket, but still...:roll:
Would like to hear a bit more detail re the 4D 200 and how it performs on serve, and quite what the topspin is like on groundies...
Having said "goodbye" to the Rad Pro, I'm kind of on the look out again and this frame appeals in lots ways. My concern is I presently like a topspin friendly frame for groundies (surely that closed pattern isn't going to generate anything like the topspin a Rad Pro, or a PST, or TF 320 can all generate?) And secondly, how much flat power is accessible re serve?... anything like the Reb (which I personally found very powerful to serve with)?
Thanks,
R.
BTW, Yes, I know it's the player who generates the topspin and not the racket, but still...:roll:
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Ross....have you tried the BB11 MP? It's a little more user friendly than the AG200 and since it's a 98", the 18x20 patten is pretty open in the center of the racquet compared to a 95" like the AG200. I moved from the Rad Pro to the BB11 and couldn't be happier.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Ross,
The 4d is not very forgiving at all, but it can give you monster flat serves if your technique is there. This is my favorite serving stick because it has helped me correct bad habits and it rewards me with a ton of control and power when I serve properly.
As for topspin, I get tons of spin, but I have no idea what your stroke is like. If you hit with spin already, then an 18x20 is awesome for leveling out your shots and adding weight to them. If you do not, then you may not like this racquet.
The 4d is not very forgiving at all, but it can give you monster flat serves if your technique is there. This is my favorite serving stick because it has helped me correct bad habits and it rewards me with a ton of control and power when I serve properly.
As for topspin, I get tons of spin, but I have no idea what your stroke is like. If you hit with spin already, then an 18x20 is awesome for leveling out your shots and adding weight to them. If you do not, then you may not like this racquet.
PP and Jack,
Cheers for that ^^^
I suppose I'm really more inclined to look at open patterns. Re close patterns there's a lot of frames in contention (PT 630, Rad Tour Twin Tube, Reb, etc), but I am more into the added topspin, oomph and even unpredicability of open patterns really (this has tended to be the way for me over the years.) That said, these rave reviews of the 4D 200 has made me sit up and take notice!
This week though I'm checking out the TF 320 V02 Max. I've recently been playing with my old PST again (and really liking it.) And there's the N95 that I've always liked and played well with...
Regards to all,
R.
BTW, Is this a good time to start that 'Ex-users of the YT Rad Pro Club'?!:smile:
Cheers for that ^^^
I suppose I'm really more inclined to look at open patterns. Re close patterns there's a lot of frames in contention (PT 630, Rad Tour Twin Tube, Reb, etc), but I am more into the added topspin, oomph and even unpredicability of open patterns really (this has tended to be the way for me over the years.) That said, these rave reviews of the 4D 200 has made me sit up and take notice!
This week though I'm checking out the TF 320 V02 Max. I've recently been playing with my old PST again (and really liking it.) And there's the N95 that I've always liked and played well with...
Regards to all,
R.
BTW, Is this a good time to start that 'Ex-users of the YT Rad Pro Club'?!:smile:
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Ross, why not get the 16x19 AG 4D200 and just add some lead if its too light? Another great open pattern stick is the Yonex RDS 002 Tour and it's on sale everywhere. Another good one would be the BLX 95.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Ross I think you will like the 4d simply because it is an incredible racquet. Of course you may not like the fact that it is not going to give you anything besides what you put into it. I think that is the polarizing factor there. But if you like the PT 630, then you will have a tough time putting down the 4D.
The Tfight 320 is the exact opposite racquet. Stiff, super open pattern, and massive power. I'm interested in seeing how that demo goes because it will answer a lot of questions. Of course, I have no idea what level your game is at. I think the main thing to finding a racquet that sticks with you is getting your strokes at a 4-5.0 level. Once that happens, you are hitting the ball the same way, and using sound technique. It really opens your eyes to how much power/spin/control you personally need and makes the racquet search a thing of the past.
The Tfight 320 is the exact opposite racquet. Stiff, super open pattern, and massive power. I'm interested in seeing how that demo goes because it will answer a lot of questions. Of course, I have no idea what level your game is at. I think the main thing to finding a racquet that sticks with you is getting your strokes at a 4-5.0 level. Once that happens, you are hitting the ball the same way, and using sound technique. It really opens your eyes to how much power/spin/control you personally need and makes the racquet search a thing of the past.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Weird, but this is why everyone hits the ball different and has different needs. It would be lame if we all liked the same racquet.
I liked the Rebel, in fact was planning on switching to it, but the Dunlop blew it away for my game. They have a different balance, power level and feel and all those things are big factors in deciding a stick. I would not cry if I had to play with a Rebel though, it's a great stick for sure.
I liked the Rebel, in fact was planning on switching to it, but the Dunlop blew it away for my game. They have a different balance, power level and feel and all those things are big factors in deciding a stick. I would not cry if I had to play with a Rebel though, it's a great stick for sure.
The RDS 002 Tour has long interested me - but it doesn't seem to be so easy to get 1 here second-hand in the UK... as demoing doesn't really happen here, if I have to buy but I'm a bit unsure I prefer to buy used for a cheaper price.
I have been following feedback on the 4D 200 AG Tour... the early reports I recall though mentioned it was very hefty (ie, log-like)... hmm... maybe I should check out a few more posts on it?...
As it stands though, I've kind of got my hands full comparing the TF 320 Vo2 Max, PST, N95 and C10 Pro (had it restrung recently)... maybe I should just stop there!?:roll:
PP,
I have a feeling I'll like the TF on serve (well, I hope so) and on groundies (I'm hoping I'll find it a bit like the YT Rad Pro - but better suited to me with that 95" h/size)... how I'll find it in other areas though (stiffness, frame build quality, maneuverability) remains to be seen.
ryushen,
I've said it before - if there was an open-pattern Reb I'd be all over it!
R.
ryushen21
Legend
Indeed. In fact, I demoed the 200 a bit and it was a stick that I really thought that I was going to like. I wanted to like it. But when I hit with it all I got was a "blah" reaction. It wasn't bad but it wasn't great. I suspect that with a little customization, I probably could have been pretty happy for it. But that was exactly what I wanted to avoid. I have tried customizing frames to make them more suitable for me and it didn't work out so well.
I wanted something that wowed me right from the first hit and that is exactly what I got with the Reb.
Ross....you must be the pickiest racquet person I have ever seen. I don't think the pros are as demanding as you are. Lol.
What happened with the Rad pro? Oh and I wanted to ask how your demo with the RD-7 went. I ran across a couple and was contemplating a purchase. But as I am now entering league and tourney play, I need to obtain a third rebel and new grommets. No time to play around.
I know what you mean about the open-pattern Reb. A lot of people areound here are calling for that. I think that is one of the reasons that Ignite was such a disappointment. People were hoping it was the exact same as the Reb just with the open pattern. Did you ever try the Reb with the port inserts rather than the string hole?
Anyways, happy hunting.
I had a little fling with a couple of different prestige mids. I was searching for a PC600 or a PT10 but never found one at a price I was willing to pay. Would have been nice. Something about that frame just clicked with me and I was driving the ball. But not going to pay that preice when the Reb does pretty much the same thing and gives me added forgiveness if I'm a little sloppy.
ryushen21
Legend
Noooooo! They are two completely different animals.
Orion
Semi-Pro
I found Graphite 100 horrible. Absolutely ZERO feel and the flex point on the frame felt like it was high in the hoop which made the head feel smaller than it actually is. Off-center shots translated right to the arm and it wasn't an easy swinging frame.
Jack,
^^^ Yeah, maybe... I did hear it was another very hefty frame though (albeit a big topspin machine)... what would clinch it for me is the head-size... 100" is too big for me... I've got to stay within 93-98".
ryushen,
Tried for over a month but it just didn't work out with the YT Rad Pro... 'variable' YT feel and head-heavy balance actually gave me arm soreness... couldn't really get happy on serve... found it a bit unwieldly with its 100" head-size... still, it was pure effortless power on groundstrokes with masses of topspin (2hbh was amazing)... all in all though, too many issues... and my fears were confirmed when I picked up my old PST on 2 occasions and suddenly my faltering form of the previous 4 weeks was totally and instantaneously reversed.
Back to square 1 then, but I don't have the patience to go on another 2/3 months of tests and comparisons... as I mentioned earlier, the PST, 320 Vo2 Max, C10 Pro and N95... I'm pretty sure I'll be using 1 of them as my primary frame shortly.
BTW, I actually think a lot of ppl would like an open-pattern Reb.
R.
^^^ Yeah, maybe... I did hear it was another very hefty frame though (albeit a big topspin machine)... what would clinch it for me is the head-size... 100" is too big for me... I've got to stay within 93-98".
ryushen,
Tried for over a month but it just didn't work out with the YT Rad Pro... 'variable' YT feel and head-heavy balance actually gave me arm soreness... couldn't really get happy on serve... found it a bit unwieldly with its 100" head-size... still, it was pure effortless power on groundstrokes with masses of topspin (2hbh was amazing)... all in all though, too many issues... and my fears were confirmed when I picked up my old PST on 2 occasions and suddenly my faltering form of the previous 4 weeks was totally and instantaneously reversed.
Back to square 1 then, but I don't have the patience to go on another 2/3 months of tests and comparisons... as I mentioned earlier, the PST, 320 Vo2 Max, C10 Pro and N95... I'm pretty sure I'll be using 1 of them as my primary frame shortly.
BTW, I actually think a lot of ppl would like an open-pattern Reb.
R.
ryushen21
Legend
You may want to try the Graphite Mid (93). I hear ya on the headsize bit. I know that I won't be venturing past the 95 point for a while.
And I agree, a lot of people would like an open-pattern Rebel. Maybe prince will wise up and produce. Although, there is not a lot of love for Prince here in the states. I just soldier on with my Rebel though. I'm ready to start taking down opponents.
ProgressoR
Hall of Fame
I have a rebel (not team) because its very HLight and good on my mild TE elbow, it plays great, I really like it, have no plans to demo other rackets or change it, play with syn gut at 50lbs, very soft and flexy feel, good for all court play, good power (with a full stoke motion) and good spin too, good control. If you find a racket that is ok for you, i feel i should just stick to it until and if i get unhappy with it, otherwise would just confuse myself with all the options.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
I agree the Rebel is nice on the elbow/arm. One of the best IMO in that regard. After playing, my arm wouldn't have the "after effects" of other racquets. There was something though that just didn't click with me and the Rebel. Could never put my finger on it.
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