Extended rackets and doubles

[Attila_the_gorilla]

Most of you are probably aware that traditionally doubles players have often used extended rackets, more so than singles players. A lot of you may not be sure why extended length works better for doubles, so I'll tell you. It's not as simple as longer reach.

Obviously, suitable doubles rackets need to have a very short balance, so that is a given. Usually in stock form extended rackets are more head heavy, but that is very easily fixed with silicone in the handle.

Once you get your extended frame to a suitably headlight balance and add any leadtape you need to get your preferred swingweight, you'll find that the extended racket is easier to maneouver around the net than the standard length of otherwise same specs.

The reason for this is that an extended frame does not generally need much weight at 12 to get to a suitable swingweight. A standard length needs more weight at 12 to give it the same SW.

More weight at the tip of the racket makes it more polarised, ie the weight distribution will be more uneven. Even if you use a very headlight balance, more weight at 12 will make the racket head trickier to keep under control. It will be more prone to swinging or dropping, when you should be keeping it still and controlled.

On the other hand, weight at the tip is great for singles players and big swings.

I recently bought an extended length Aero pro drive, set it up to the same specs as my usual standard length Wilson 6.1 95 doubles rackets, and was very surprised how little lead I needed at 12, and how much easier it felt to keep the racket head still and my wrist stable with the extended frame. That is thanks to its more even (depolarized) weight distribution.

At first instinct, this may sound counter-intuitive, cos you'd think extended rackets are less maneouvrable. But that is only true if you keep the stock specs and balance. With a given balance, mass, swingweight and twistweight, the extended frame will be more maneouvrable than the standard length.

This is why they have been very popular with doubles players.

 

[nvr2old]

Indeed. My gamma razor bubba 117 is a great doubles stick.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

Indeed. My gamma razor bubba 117 is a great doubles stick.

Depending on its swingweight and balance, I would probably add some silicone to its handle (or a leather grip) for even better maneouvrability. In stock form, these light oversize frames tend to be pretty head heavy.

 

[moon shot]

The 6.1 classic stretch has some of this magic I’ve been trying to impart on other frames. It’s rediculous how quick the 28 inch frame feels at 370g 31cm 355sw.

Anyone have tips for setting up a standard length frame with similar usability?

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

The 6.1 classic stretch has some of this magic I’ve been trying to impart on other frames. It’s rediculous how quick the 28 inch frame feels at 370g 31cm 355sw.

Anyone have tips for setting up a standard length frame with similar usability?

At the same specs, I don't think it's possible to get a standard length have the same mobility around the net. You just need to try giving it an even shorter balance, less than 31 cm. More weight in the handle if possible.

 

[IowaGuy]

This is why they have been very popular with doubles players.

Would a good strategy against someone at the net with an extended racket, be to just hit it right at their body?

i.e. does an extra inch or two make it harder to cover the body with the head of the racket when facing a direct shot at you?

 

[IowaGuy]

If extended rackets are better, why do most pros play with 27" rackets? i.e. what are the inherent advantages and disadvantages of extended rackets?

Are 27" rackets inherently better for singles but 28-29" rackets better for doubles?

And, regarding rackets slightly extended (27.25 or 27.5), does such a small difference actually make a difference? i.e. how many more mph would a serve be, or how many additional volleys might they reach that they wouldn't with a 27" racket?

 

[Steve Huff]

I've used rackets up to 29" long, and I have to disagree with about everything the original poster said.

 

[AMGF]

If extended rackets are better, why do most pros play with 27" rackets? i.e. what are the inherent advantages and disadvantages of extended rackets?

Are 27" rackets inherently better for singles but 28-29" rackets better for doubles?

And, regarding rackets slightly extended (27.25 or 27.5), does such a small difference actually make a difference? i.e. how many more mph would a serve be, or how many additional volleys might they reach that they wouldn't with a 27" racket?

40% of pros play with an extended frame. That's from the Jura measurement from Roland Garros 2008 IIRC.

Considering how few 27,5" are available for the general population and kids growing up, I think that number is really high and shows many pros do switch to XL at some point in their carreer.

Funny as I just played a doubles match against a former ATP player and even though I started the match with a 27" I quickly got my 27,5" out of the bag. The half inch is not a big deal at the net at all, but the extra SW is noticeable and I needed all the power I could come up with.

 

[moon shot]

At the same specs, I don't think it's possible to get a standard length have the same mobility around the net. You just need to try giving it an even shorter balance, less than 31 cm. More weight in the handle if possible.

I guess I want it to swing similar and have a similar output but that isn’t all going to happen. I have a prestige at 31cm 340sw but it feels even more whippy - to the point that it’s harder to generate pace. Nearest I can tell a longer balance and lower swingweight and slightly lower static weight meet those goals.

 

[lwto]

Why would you want an extended racquet for doubles, doubles is more about placement and accuracy.. extended racquet just gives you power.. which is pretty useless in doubles.

 

[PBODY99]

@AMGF
The extended frames for the masses started in the mid 1990's. Head Xl Tour, Wilson 6.1 stretch, Prince long Body and others. So keeping the XL feel you grew up with leads to players using longer frames at the ATP level.
As a player who started with a standard wood frame, the extra length keeps the center of percussion close to were it was with a standard frame.

 

[PBODY99]

@Iwto
The extra length also allows me to shorten & slow down my stroke speed which increases my accuracy.
The player in red is using a Bubba, as we are in the same age group it doesn't seem to hinder them or me.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

Why would you want an extended racquet for doubles, doubles is more about placement and accuracy.. extended racquet just gives you power.. which is pretty useless in doubles.

Yo didn't read my post. Extended rackets give you better maneouvrability, if other specs are equal.

 

[AMGF]

@AMGF
The extended frames for the masses started in the mid 1990's. Head Xl Tour, Wilson 6.1 stretch, Prince long Body and others. So keeping the XL feel you grew up with leads to players using longer frames at the ATP level.
As a player who started with a standard wood frame, the extra length keeps the center of percussion close to were it was with a standard frame.

You’ve got a point. I clearly remember that era when every company launched extended frames. At the time I was a teen and I didn’t want to « cheat » by playing with a longer frame. Now at 40+, I’ll take all the legal cheats that I can.

It was also a time when 2hbh became popular and the longer handle/frame were marketed that way too.

Anyhow, I don’t know why the trend didn’t stick with regular people. Maybe just economics. Making XL versions costs more than just regular ones as you double the inventory etc. So it is harder to just find an xl demo and test it. Idk.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

I can't find any decent extended Head ones, or even Wilsons. Babolat has a good supply, and now even Yonex has a few interesting ones. And a couple of smaller brands.

 

[PBODY99]

@AMGF
The higher swing weight of the frames, coupled with the low pickup weight lead to people not finding them easy to use, which is how they were marketed.
While XL require modification in your swing, for many of the players this is not what they were looking for.
The Bob GAMMA rep in SE PA, explained the difference approach needed to use the 28.5" 118 sq inch 22mm Cyclone or the 137 sq in Big Bubba Pro; 29 inches long model released after the the ITF limited frame length.
Professional guidance is the missing link.

 

[lwto]

Yo didn't read my post. Extended rackets give you better maneouvrability, if other specs are equal.

I don't believe that for a second.

ONly one use for extended racquets.. power, ask Michael Chang.

 

[moon shot]

I don't believe that for a second.

ONly one use for extended racquets.. power, ask Michael Chang.

Do the Bryans use it for power?

 

[travlerajm]

Extended length racquets can be helpful on serves. In my opinion, having an overwhelming serve is more important for doubles than for singles ( because in singles the returner is not necessarily punished for just blocking the serve back deep to the middle). this is why a longer racquet might be useful for doubles. On the other hand, volleys and chip or block returns are absolutely easier with a shorter racquet, mainly because of the extra mass and plow through for a given swingweight, which increases launch angle control and depth control.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

I don't believe that for a second.

ONly one use for extended racquets.. power, ask Michael Chang.

It's not about belief but first-hand experience and a bit of logic to explain that experience.

There are multiple ways to benefit from extended frames. Extra power, spin and reach can be a few of those.

But, in general, they need to be customized in order to take advantage of their inherent depolarized nature for maneouvrability in doubles. Specifically, you need to make their balance much shorter than they generally have in stock form.
In stock form, the Bryan Brother's limited edition signature racket is the only extended frame that is set up with this in mind. That has their matchplay specs.

People believe what they believe until they have first hand experience that suggests otherwise.
All you can do is try it for yourself. Get a 27.5 in frame and a 27 in frame, set them both up to the exact same specs (swingweight, static weight, twistweight, balance point distance from butt). I guarantee that you'll find the extended frame more maneouvrable in the hand.

 

[lwto]

Do the Bryans use it for power?

Just how are the Bryon Bros doing now?

Most of us here I doubt can play like the Bryan Bros.
Most of us here don't get paid to play with racquets.

 

[lwto]

It's not about belief but first-hand experience and a bit of logic to explain that experience.

There are multiple ways to benefit from extended frames. Extra power, spin and reach can be a few of those.

But, in general, they need to be customized in order to take advantage of their inherent depolarized nature for maneouvrability in doubles. Specifically, you need to make their balance much shorter than they generally have in stock form.
In stock form, the Bryan Brother's limited edition signature racket is the only extended frame that is set up with this in mind. That has their matchplay specs.

People believe what they believe until they have first hand experience that suggests otherwise.
All you can do is try it for yourself. Get a 27.5 in frame and a 27 in frame, set them both up to the exact same specs (swingweight, static weight, twistweight, balance point distance from butt). I guarantee that you'll find the extended frame more maneouvrable in the hand.

Um, I actually did for the most part.. DR98 and DR98+

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

Um, I actually did for the most part.. DR98 and DR98+

Did you customise them to the exact same specs?

 

[moon shot]

Just how are the Bryon Bros doing now?

Most of us here I doubt can play like the Bryan Bros.
Most of us here don't get paid to play with racquets.

Ranked higher than Chang at the moment

...but I’m really just saying there are different ways to use length.

 

[lwto]

Did you customise them to the exact same specs?

For the most part, but considering one is longer, I don't think, you could ever get the weight and swing weight exactly.

Just for my part, the experiences I've had with longer racquets is that it's a light racquet like a weed, or a Bubba in the hands of a 70+ year ole, is probably good. but the preclusion and accuracy, doesn't make up for the power you gain, and again, that's for my own personal preference. Probably should have made that more clear, though, in general I believe that to be true with most.

 

[jmacdaununder2]

Ranked higher than Chang at the moment

...but I’m really just saying there are different ways to use length.

That's what she said!! Oh yeah!! Nailed it!! Merry Xmas everybody!!

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

For the most part, but considering one is longer, I don't think, you could ever get the weight and swing weight exactly.

Just for my part, the experiences I've had with longer racquets is that it's a light racquet like a weed, or a Bubba in the hands of a 70+ year ole, is probably good. but the preclusion and accuracy, doesn't make up for the power you gain, and again, that's for my own personal preference. Probably should have made that more clear, though, in general I believe that to be true with most.

I do a lot of customizing. Without it, most extended rackets will be, as you say, lighter, more head heavy and less maneouvrable than standard length versions. But that is purely due to the manufacturer's decisions. They tend to market extended frames for their extra power, spin and reach, as singles baseliners rackets. It's understandable because the huge majority of rec players don't understand how racket specs can affect their doubles game.

The countless pro doubles players that use extended frames have them heavily customized. None use them in stock form. Daniel Nestor, who is one of the best doubles players ever, uses the heaviest rackets known on tour, almost 400 grams static weight. It's an extended racket at 27.5 inches.

 

[tennistomcat]

@Iwto
The extra length also allows me to shorten & slow down my stroke speed which increases my accuracy.
The player in red is using a Bubba, as we are in the same age group it doesn't seem to hinder them or me.

These guys are awesome 60 yr olds. Hope I can play half as good as them when I'm at that age.

 

[aaron_h27]

I know this is an old thread, but i have found that most extended rackets are more polarized than standard length ones and take a lot of lead to get depolarized.