Fed should have taken a leaf out of the master's book on Sunday

shakes1975

Semi-Pro
i feel that fed was serving well enough to borrow sampras' approach in a match. Not always, but yesterday he was serving big enough and hitting his forehands hard enough to take this approach. I mean 25 aces on these slower courts means he was serving out-of-his-world.

[There was a video on BBC (somebody already mentioned this) where the analysis showed that the balls are travelling up to 9 mph slower after the bounce compared to 2003. That is just a huge difference.]

I notice that fed plays every game and every point with the same focus and determination (that's why he is able to dish out so many bagels and breadsticks). After all, he's a dedicated proffesional. But, like every human, he cannot maintain that focus through a 5-set match and this gives rise to lapses in concentration. Against nadal, these lapses in concentration have proved to be very costly time and again.

I think fed should borrow sampras' tactics in this regard. sampras, if you remember, first and foremost, always focussed on holding his serve as consistently and easily as possible. On his opponent's service games, he is focussed to some extent, but he's not desperate or doesn't play every point with a sense of urgency. He's content to take a few calculated big swings and some risks. Sampras rarely played a lot of rallies or rarely ran around a lot during his opponent's service games. If he feels he's being jerked around the court, he's content to just let the ball pass by (unless it's a set-point or a match-point) instead of running and running to save the point. I feel fed makes this mistake of trying to play every ball and every point to his full ability.

I think he would do better to be super-focussed on his service games, and just be a little alert on his opponent's service games. Take a few calculated swings, and maybe a couple of errors might come.

Sampras' approach is extremely useful and it shows how clever sampras was. This approach has the following benefits:

1. If fed's opponent is a someone like nadal who doesn't have the biggest serve and who likes to play rallies, esp. at the beginning of the match, it will not allow his opponent to get into the rhythm or groove. These guys love to play long, long rallies. Their whole game is based on rallies and stamina and concentration.

2. If fed is able to hold his serve easily, there is a chance that nadal will feel the pressure as the set goes on, and he will eventually make some errors. fed can then pounce on them.

3. If fed still cannot break serve, he can at least push the set into a tie-breaker, and given his bigger serve and tie-break record, fed has a much better chance to win it. If you will see, fed leads 5-1 in tie-breaks against nadal at wimbledon, mainly because of his serve advantage.

4. And lastly, but most importantly, by relaxing a little during his opponent's service games, fed will not face the issue of having to concentrate extra hard all the time for the full match. Due to his eagerness to play his best every game, he ends up losing his concentration at wrong moments (like on his own serve, for example).

I think if he follows this strategy, he can prolong his career significantly. It should be remembered that every tennis player has a fixed number of miles on his legs. Once that mileage has been reached, he cannot maintain his speed and explosiveness. fed has to be careful to prevent such a thing from happening.

One area where fed can improve is his instincts and anticipation at the net. Fed's volleys, as a stand-alone, are pretty good and he has good reflexes. But one mistake that fed makes when he hits an approach shot is that after he hits the shot, he watches what nadal is doing and then comes in to the net. Too many times, because of this, he's caught in no-mans-land and has to hit a low volley. i feel that once he decides to come in, he should just try to get as close to the net as is practical, so he may either get passed, but if not, he can get a higher ball to volley everytime.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Pete is definitely the master. He did do just as you suggested. He didn't run around chasing every ball like Fed does. This prolonged his career and didn't tax his body as much. People are quick to say Nadal's game is physical while overlooking how physical Fed's game is too. Fed relies a lot on his movement. Sampras could depend 100% on his serve holding up. He saved so much energy while he played. He didn't start slowing down until about 28 or 29. Pete also wasn't that prone to mental lapses.
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
There was a video on BBC (somebody already mentioned this) where the analysis showed that the balls are travelling up to 9 mph slower after the bounce compared to 2003. That is just a huge difference

are you sure about this? the grass was changed in 2002, so why would there be any difference since 2003? do you know if they compared all matches or just a few? since Philippoussis made the final that year, that may have skewed stats as far as mph(not many hit as hard as he did)

If fed's opponent is a someone like nadal who doesn't have the biggest serve and who likes to play rallies, esp. at the beginning of the match, it will not allow his opponent to get into the rhythm or groove. These guys love to play long, long rallies. Their whole game is based on rallies and stamina and concentration


McEnroe mentioned during the final that he wanted to come to net sooner rather than later, because when you stay back too long before coming in, your opponent gets a groove going & is ready to hit that pass well.

Fed did give Nadal a lot to get grooved on. But that's his game as well in some way.
Not saying he should have come in more, but I think he could have pulled the trigger a bit earlier in rallies. Even Sampras' errors often threw off opponents, he would hold serve so easily, swing away on shots, & often opponents would be a bit startled when he connected on them when it got deep in a set.
 
Last edited:

Josherer

Professional
i feel that fed was serving well enough to borrow sampras' approach in a match. Not always, but yesterday he was serving big enough and hitting his forehands hard enough to take this approach. I mean 25 aces on these slower courts means he was serving out-of-his-world.

[There was a video on BBC (somebody already mentioned this) where the analysis showed that the balls are travelling up to 9 mph slower after the bounce compared to 2003. That is just a huge difference.]

I notice that fed plays every game and every point with the same focus and determination (that's why he is able to dish out so many bagels and breadsticks). After all, he's a dedicated proffesional. But, like every human, he cannot maintain that focus through a 5-set match and this gives rise to lapses in concentration. Against nadal, these lapses in concentration have proved to be very costly time and again.

I think fed should borrow sampras' tactics in this regard. sampras, if you remember, first and foremost, always focussed on holding his serve as consistently and easily as possible. On his opponent's service games, he is focussed to some extent, but he's not desperate or doesn't play every point with a sense of urgency. He's content to take a few calculated big swings and some risks. Sampras rarely played a lot of rallies or rarely ran around a lot during his opponent's service games. If he feels he's being jerked around the court, he's content to just let the ball pass by (unless it's a set-point or a match-point) instead of running and running to save the point. I feel fed makes this mistake of trying to play every ball and every point to his full ability.

I think he would do better to be super-focussed on his service games, and just be a little alert on his opponent's service games. Take a few calculated swings, and maybe a couple of errors might come.

Sampras' approach is extremely useful and it shows how clever sampras was. This approach has the following benefits:

1. If fed's opponent is a someone like nadal who doesn't have the biggest serve and who likes to play rallies, esp. at the beginning of the match, it will not allow his opponent to get into the rhythm or groove. These guys love to play long, long rallies. Their whole game is based on rallies and stamina and concentration.

2. If fed is able to hold his serve easily, there is a chance that nadal will feel the pressure as the set goes on, and he will eventually make some errors. fed can then pounce on them.

3. If fed still cannot break serve, he can at least push the set into a tie-breaker, and given his bigger serve and tie-break record, fed has a much better chance to win it. If you will see, fed leads 5-1 in tie-breaks against nadal at wimbledon, mainly because of his serve advantage.

4. And lastly, but most importantly, by relaxing a little during his opponent's service games, fed will not face the issue of having to concentrate extra hard all the time for the full match. Due to his eagerness to play his best every game, he ends up losing his concentration at wrong moments (like on his own serve, for example).

I think if he follows this strategy, he can prolong his career significantly. It should be remembered that every tennis player has a fixed number of miles on his legs. Once that mileage has been reached, he cannot maintain his speed and explosiveness. fed has to be careful to prevent such a thing from happening.

One area where fed can improve is his instincts and anticipation at the net. Fed's volleys, as a stand-alone, are pretty good and he has good reflexes. But one mistake that fed makes when he hits an approach shot is that after he hits the shot, he watches what nadal is doing and then comes in to the net. Too many times, because of this, he's caught in no-mans-land and has to hit a low volley. i feel that once he decides to come in, he should just try to get as close to the net as is practical, so he may either get passed, but if not, he can get a higher ball to volley everytime.


Great analysis!

I never really saw it this way... i agree with you in the sense that Federer should focus largley on his serve against Nadal ecspecially..

Also he has the ability to have an extraordinary net game and i belive he should defaintly focus on this.
 

sunnyIce

Semi-Pro
good one...
its not obvious for lack of feisty-ness but yes fed does mow down most of the balls hit his way.
 

shakes1975

Semi-Pro
are you sure about this? the grass was changed in 2002, so why would there be any difference since 2003? do you know if they compared all matches or just a few? since Philippoussis made the final that year, that may have skewed stats as far as mph(not many hit as hard as he did)

i am positive about this. i saw this across a number of message boards. also, they picked fed's serve and shots, not philippoussis'.



McEnroe mentioned during the final that he wanted to come to net sooner rather than later, because when you stay back too long before coming in, your opponent gets a groove going & is ready to hit that pass well.

Fed did give Nadal a lot to get grooved on. But that's his game as well in some way.

True, but not to the extent of nadal. Fed can afford to pull the trigger a little earlier.

Not saying he should have come in more, but I think he could have pulled the trigger a bit earlier in rallies. Even Sampras' errors often threw off opponents, he would hold serve so easily, swing away on shots, & often opponents would be a bit startled when he connected on them when it got deep in a set.
 

Mr Topspin

Semi-Pro
i feel that fed was serving well enough to borrow sampras' approach in a match. Not always, but yesterday he was serving big enough and hitting his forehands hard enough to take this approach. I mean 25 aces on these slower courts means he was serving out-of-his-world.

[There was a video on BBC (somebody already mentioned this) where the analysis showed that the balls are travelling up to 9 mph slower after the bounce compared to 2003. That is just a huge difference.]

I notice that fed plays every game and every point with the same focus and determination (that's why he is able to dish out so many bagels and breadsticks). After all, he's a dedicated proffesional. But, like every human, he cannot maintain that focus through a 5-set match and this gives rise to lapses in concentration. Against nadal, these lapses in concentration have proved to be very costly time and again.

I think fed should borrow sampras' tactics in this regard. sampras, if you remember, first and foremost, always focussed on holding his serve as consistently and easily as possible. On his opponent's service games, he is focussed to some extent, but he's not desperate or doesn't play every point with a sense of urgency. He's content to take a few calculated big swings and some risks. Sampras rarely played a lot of rallies or rarely ran around a lot during his opponent's service games. If he feels he's being jerked around the court, he's content to just let the ball pass by (unless it's a set-point or a match-point) instead of running and running to save the point. I feel fed makes this mistake of trying to play every ball and every point to his full ability.

I think he would do better to be super-focussed on his service games, and just be a little alert on his opponent's service games. Take a few calculated swings, and maybe a couple of errors might come.

Sampras' approach is extremely useful and it shows how clever sampras was. This approach has the following benefits:

1. If fed's opponent is a someone like nadal who doesn't have the biggest serve and who likes to play rallies, esp. at the beginning of the match, it will not allow his opponent to get into the rhythm or groove. These guys love to play long, long rallies. Their whole game is based on rallies and stamina and concentration.

2. If fed is able to hold his serve easily, there is a chance that nadal will feel the pressure as the set goes on, and he will eventually make some errors. fed can then pounce on them.

3. If fed still cannot break serve, he can at least push the set into a tie-breaker, and given his bigger serve and tie-break record, fed has a much better chance to win it. If you will see, fed leads 5-1 in tie-breaks against nadal at wimbledon, mainly because of his serve advantage.

4. And lastly, but most importantly, by relaxing a little during his opponent's service games, fed will not face the issue of having to concentrate extra hard all the time for the full match. Due to his eagerness to play his best every game, he ends up losing his concentration at wrong moments (like on his own serve, for example).

I think if he follows this strategy, he can prolong his career significantly. It should be remembered that every tennis player has a fixed number of miles on his legs. Once that mileage has been reached, he cannot maintain his speed and explosiveness. fed has to be careful to prevent such a thing from happening.

One area where fed can improve is his instincts and anticipation at the net. Fed's volleys, as a stand-alone, are pretty good and he has good reflexes. But one mistake that fed makes when he hits an approach shot is that after he hits the shot, he watches what nadal is doing and then comes in to the net. Too many times, because of this, he's caught in no-mans-land and has to hit a low volley. i feel that once he decides to come in, he should just try to get as close to the net as is practical, so he may either get passed, but if not, he can get a higher ball to volley everytime.



One problem. No one has the 1st or 2nd serve of Sampras. No one! I agree though that Sampras had the most efficient game of his time. Why waste energy trying to break when one break is enough.
 

shakes1975

Semi-Pro
One problem. No one has the 1st or 2nd serve of Sampras. No one! I agree though that Sampras had the most efficient game of his time. Why waste energy trying to break when one break is enough.

fed was able to hit 25 aces on slowed down grass on sunday. he was serving very, very well. and that's why i put the conditional "not always, but yesterday ...".

sampras needed that 1st and 2nd serve because he needed to be able to hit volleys off weak replies. fed doesn't need as big a serve because he doesn't have to volley immediately, and his FH is strong enough to seize the initiative.

fed's service is good enough to put this strategy into play.
 

Vermillion

Banned
Nadal gets into Fed's service games too much though. Fed has a good serve, but Nadal put the pressure on fed in most of fed's service games.
 

shakes1975

Semi-Pro
Nadal gets into Fed's service games too much though. Fed has a good serve, but Nadal put the pressure on fed in most of fed's service games.

not in the first 3 sets. it was the other way around, especially in the first 2 sets. roger should've concentrated more on his serve. he could've taken it to the t/bs.
 
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