Federer's best match on clay

[metsman]

Candidates:
2004 Hamburg semis&final. Some scary stuff to dispatch Hewitt and Coria.

Rome final 2006-actually approached the net really well against rafa for once in his life and his forehand was doing serious damage.

Hamburg final 2007-Rafa's level dropped off a bit and Hamburg isn't "real" clay but still 6-2 6-0 in the final two sets. Amazing stuff.

FO final 2008-Peak Federer played a great match but Nadal was just too good.

Madrid final 2009-He served quite well here and was clutch. But Nadal was tired and Madrid isn't "real" clay.

FO final 2009-New this was his best and maybe only shot at the French and he seized it. Played incredibly well. Classic tiebreakacerer with 4 aces in the second set tiebreak.

FO semis 2011-

FO semis 2012-Peak Federer against Djokovic but Djokovic was too good.

Rome final 2015-Ditto.

Which is it? For me 2009 FO in a vacuum but 2006 Rome for me because it was against Rafa and Rafa always makes him play a lot worse. Any other candidates?

 

[MasterZeb]

PEAK FEDERER in the 2012 French open..., u must be havin a laugh...

 

[MasterZeb]

In terms of your question, it's gotta be the 2009 open for me, no doubt

 

[metsman]

PEAK FEDERER in the 2012 French open..., u must be havin a laugh...

I aim to please all people here. I wanted to give the Djoko fanbase a bone.

As for 2011 FO it was extremely good but off the ground he was still overmatched in a lot of rallies. Incredible serve but the lighter balls helped with that. It would be like calling 2015 Wimby semi his highest level on grass. Besides, he served just as well if not better against Soderling (granted a worse returned) and was better off the ground then. Still a high quality match from both guys and one of Fed's best matches on clay but not the best.

 

[metsman]

In terms of your question, it's gotta be the 2009 open for me, no doubt

2009 french? Yeah in a vacuum it has to be up there but if you adjust for the nadal factor 2006 Rome edges ahead. He won 5 more points against peak Nadal on clay and had MP's. Nadal played quite well that day too..could not miss a first serve. But Fed served fairly well himself, and his forehand was cash money until it failed him when he needed it the most. Regardless he learned from his matches in Dubai and MC that year against Nadal and really peppered the backhand and approached only on deep balls to the backhand. Also utilized the short slice and dropped masterfully (something which I wish he had done more often in the 2006-2007 french finals). All around his best performance imo.

 

[Captain Grant]

PEAK FEDERER in the 2012 French open..., u must be havin a laugh...

Federer was in a better form in FO-12 semi-final than Djokovic in FO-11 semis.

 

[wy2sl0]

Rome for sure. Both men playing very well and one of the few times Fed didn't choke in a 5th against Nads.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Federer was in a better form in FO-12 semi-final than Djokovic in FO-11 semis.

 

[cockneyDjoker]

French open 2008 of course

 

[Deleted member 307496]

French open 2008 of course

Djoker's peak ^^^

 

[Steve0904]

In terms of level probably Rome 2006, but it always takes a bit of sting off the performance when you lose (huge credit to Nadal). So that leaves us with the RG 2011 SF. That match is easily his highest level in a winning effort considering the opponent and the streak he was on, IMO.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

In terms of level, FO 11. Beat peak Djokovic on his (Federer's) weakest surface in incredible fashion. In my opinion, the best match he ever played (all surfaces included).

 

[Steve0904]

In terms of level, FO 11. Beat peak Djokovic on his (Federer's) weakest surface in incredible fashion. In my opinion, the best match he ever played (all surfaces included).

You think so? What about the USO 2004 Final or the YEC Final in 2003 for example.

 

[metsman]

Rome for sure. Both men playing very well and one of the few times Fed didn't choke in a 5th against Nads.

technically he did choke but still a great effort and Nadal played great too

 

[merwy]

Okay so both the times Fed beat Nadal on clay, it wasn't "real" clay. How the HELL was that not real clay? Are you drunk or just an imbecile?
I think he didn't do bad at the FO 2006 and 2007 either, so you'd better name those instead of FO2008, FO2012 or Rome 2015.

I aim to please all people here. I wanted to give the Djoko fanbase a bone.

And what kind of BS is this? You aim to please all people? Except for Fed fans you mean. You shouldn't be aiming to please anyone. Just make a good freaking poll and leave those sly, biased remarks out of it.

 

[metsman]

In terms of level probably Rome 2006, but it always takes a bit of sting off the performance when you lose (huge credit to Nadal). So that leaves us with the RG 2011 SF. That match is easily his highest level in a winning effort considering the opponent and the streak he was on, IMO.

2009 FO final was basically the serving of the 2011 semi with a better ground game. And it 2009 was a bigger match for Fed.

 

[metsman]

Okay so both the times Fed beat Nadal on clay, it wasn't "real" clay. How the HELL was that not real clay? Are you drunk or just an imbecile?
I think he didn't do bad at the FO 2006 and 2007 either, so you'd better name those instead of FO2008, FO2012 or Rome 2015.



And what kind of BS is this? You aim to please all people? Except for Fed fans you mean. You shouldn't be aiming to please anyone. Just make a good freaking poll and leave those sly, biased remarks out of it.

lmao

 

[nowhereman]

06 Rome was definitely his highest level. Closest he's ever come to beating Rafa on clay in best of 5, so that speaks for itself.

 

[nowhereman]

You think so? What about the USO 2004 Final or the YEC Final in 2003 for example.

Don't forget the AO 2007 semi.

 

[metsman]

06 Rome was definitely his highest level. Closest he's ever come to beating Rafa on clay in best of 5, so that speaks for itself.

closest anyone has ever come to defeating in form peak Rafa in best of 5 on clay besides LeSod...and Rafa's level was obviously higher in Rome 06 than FO 09.

I do wonder how their rivalry plays out if Federer converts those forehands on MP...likely it changes nothing but part of me does wonder that if Fed had rolled into RG that year with the confidence that he could win the thing even in 5 sets if needed things might have played out differently. At least just for that year. I doubt it would have changed the outcomes of 2007 and beyond because Fed 07 was not as good as 06 while Rafa was a little better in 07. But maybe it would have changed some of their non-clay matches? These hypotheticals are always tough to consider.

 

[MasterZeb]

I aim to please all people here. I wanted to give the Djoko fanbase a bone.

As for 2011 FO it was extremely good but off the ground he was still overmatched in a lot of rallies. Incredible serve but the lighter balls helped with that. It would be like calling 2015 Wimby semi his highest level on grass. Besides, he served just as well if not better against Soderling (granted a worse returned) and was better off the ground then. Still a high quality match from both guys and one of Fed's best matches on clay but not the best.

Federer was in a better form in FO-12 semi-final than Djokovic in FO-11 semis.

Yes it may be arguable he was playing better than djoker, but doesn't suddenly mean he's at his peak. Federer doesn't have to be in his peak to beat djoker. Djokovic isn't some unbeatable machine that only lost cause u think fed was at his peak. He was far from it. These Djokovic fans are deluded.

 

[metsman]

Don't forget the AO 2007 semi.

My list of Fed's best level in matches in chronological order
2003 Wimby semis and finals
2003 TMC final
USO final 2004
2005 AO QF
2006 IW final
2006 Rome final
2006 Wimby 1R against Gasquet
2006 USO final
2006 Madrid semis and final
2006 TMC semis and finals
2007 AO semi
2007 USO QF
The level of these next ones is a little lower but still very high
2008 USO SF
2009 AO QF and SF
2009 FO final
2009 Cincy semis and finals
2009 USO QF and SF
2010 AO semis and finals
2010 WTF matches against big 3
2011 FO semi
2011 Paris SF and Final
2011 WTF against Nadal
2012 IW semis
2012 Madrid ( )
2012 Wimby semis and final
2012 Cincy (whole tournament)
2015 Wimby SF.

 

[helterskelter]

FO final 2008-Peak Federer played a great match but Nadal was just too good.


FO semis 2012-Peak Federer against Djokovic but Djokovic was too good.

Rome final 2015-Ditto.

Eh? FO 2008: I don't deny that it was Nadal's best-ever tournament of any sort, but, still, wasn't Federer obviously below par for much of the tournament?

Eh? FO2012: Djokovic had been two sets down against Seppi and two sets to one down against Tsonga, saving multiple match points against Tsonga. Federer was two sets down against Del Potro and might well not have made it through but for one of Del Po's injuries. Hardly Federer on his best form (the real meaning of "peak") or even Djokovic on his.

Eh? Rome 2015? Just not sure what to say here. Hasn't Federer been noticeably past it on clay for the last several years?

 

[metsman]

Yes it may be arguable he was playing better than djoker, but doesn't suddenly mean he's at his peak. Federer doesn't have to be in his peak to beat djoker. Djokovic isn't some unbeatable machine that only lost cause u think fed was at his peak. He was far from it. These Djokovic fans are deluded.

I know. That's why I didn't pick 2011 semi as his best match. I think that at best it is his 3rd best.

 

[nowhereman]

closest anyone has ever come to defeating in form peak Rafa in best of 5 on clay besides LeSod...and Rafa's level was obviously higher in Rome 06 than FO 09.

I do wonder how their rivalry plays out if Federer converts those forehands on MP...likely it changes nothing but part of me does wonder that if Fed had rolled into RG that year with the confidence that he could win the thing even in 5 sets if needed things might have played out differently. At least just for that year. I doubt it would have changed the outcomes of 2007 and beyond because Fed 07 was not as good as 06 while Rafa was a little better in 07. But maybe it would have changed some of their non-clay matches? These hypotheticals are always tough to consider.

Had he converted the MP's, he might have never developed the mental block, so the rivalry might have turned out completely different. I definitely agree with you that he would've been more confident that year at RG, which just could possibly have been the thing he needed to beat him there. Besides that, who knows how their future matches would've gone. I still think Rafa leads the h2h though, because he's always had Fed's number even before the mental block.

 

[nowhereman]

My list of Fed's best level in matches in chronological order
2003 Wimby semis and finals
2003 TMC final
USO final 2004
2005 AO QF
2006 IW final
2006 Rome final
2006 Wimby 1R against Gasquet
2006 USO final
2006 Madrid semis and final
2006 TMC semis and finals
2007 AO semi
2007 USO QF
The level of these next ones is a little lower but still very high
2008 USO QF
2009 AO QF and SF
2009 FO final
2009 Cincy semis and finals
2009 USO QF and SF
2010 AO semis and finals
2010 WTF matches against big 3
2011 FO semi
2011 Paris SF and Final
2011 WTF against Nadal
2012 IW semis
2012 Madrid ( )
2012 Wimby semis and final
2012 Cincy (whole tournament)
2015 Wimby SF.

Excellent list, especially the inclusion of 2012 Madrid. Fed will forever remain the blue clay GOAT, a title not even Rafa can claim.

 

[metsman]

Had he converted the MP's, he might have never developed the mental block, so the rivalry might have turned out completely different. I definitely agree with you that he would've been more confident that year at RG, which just could possibly have been the thing he needed to beat him there. Besides that, who knows how their future matches would've gone. I still think Rafa leads the h2h though, because he's always had Fed's number even before the mental block.

I think he would have developed the mental block but it possibly would have come later when he wasn't at his peak. But even without the mental block I don't see him winning 2007 RG. 2006 RG though...very tempting to say it could have gone the other way. It's just so rare to see Fed brick a second set like that after winning the first in dominant fashion great frontrunner and all. Had to be something mental..some seed of doubt that like Rome, he could still not beat Rafa on clay even at his best.

 

[MasterZeb]

2009 french? Yeah in a vacuum it has to be up there but if you adjust for the nadal factor 2006 Rome edges ahead. He won 5 more points against peak Nadal on clay and had MP's. Nadal played quite well that day too..could not miss a first serve. But Fed served fairly well himself, and his forehand was cash money until it failed him when he needed it the most. Regardless he learned from his matches in Dubai and MC that year against Nadal and really peppered the backhand and approached only on deep balls to the backhand. Also utilized the short slice and dropped masterfully (something which I wish he had done more often in the 2006-2007 french finals). All around his best performance imo.

Yes in terms of overall performance and quality, the 2011 semi was insane. But in terms if the magnitude, pressure and his final accomplishment, the 2009 has to be his best clay court match. He may not have been playing his best, but it is his greatest match.

 

[nowhereman]

I think he would have developed the mental block but it possibly would have come later when he wasn't at his peak. But even without the mental block I don't see him winning 2007 RG. 2006 RG though...very tempting to say it could have gone the other way. It's just so rare to see Fed brick a second set like that after winning the first in dominant fashion great frontrunner and all. Had to be something mental..some seed of doubt that like Rome, he could still not beat Rafa on clay even at his best.

Exactly. He lacked the belief that he could beat Rafa on clay at that point, and I think blowing MP's at Rome was a big part of that. If he was confident, he easily could have sustained his level in the first set for a much longer period of time. But unconfident Fed figured, no matter how close he got or how great he was playing, he still wasn't good enough. So that's why winning the Rome final one month earlier could have propelled him to the RG title 3 years earlier and given him the CYGS.

 

[nowhereman]

My list of Fed's best level in matches in chronological order
2003 Wimby semis and finals
2003 TMC final
USO final 2004
2005 AO QF
2006 IW final
2006 Rome final
2006 Wimby 1R against Gasquet
2006 USO final
2006 Madrid semis and final
2006 TMC semis and finals
2007 AO semi
2007 USO QF
The level of these next ones is a little lower but still very high
2008 USO SF
2009 AO QF and SF
2009 FO final
2009 Cincy semis and finals
2009 USO QF and SF
2010 AO semis and finals
2010 WTF matches against big 3
2011 FO semi
2011 Paris SF and Final
2011 WTF against Nadal
2012 IW semis
2012 Madrid ( )
2012 Wimby semis and final
2012 Cincy (whole tournament)
2015 Wimby SF.

Also, you could pretty much throw in his 2015 Cincy run in this list too. His level this year was arguably as good. Even though he didn't crush Djokovic as bad this time, he still had to go through an in form Murray and a dangerous Kevin Anderson, both of whom he took take care of easily.

 

[Steve0904]

2009 FO final was basically the serving of the 2011 semi with a better ground game. And it 2009 was a bigger match for Fed.

Look at the opponents though. One was a beast that was on a 41 match winning streak to start the season. The other was a guy with first set stage fright and was just not as good a clay court player. The 2009 Final was obviously his most important moment on clay, but it wasn't his best match even if it was still good/great.

 

[metsman]

Look at the opponents though. One was a beast that was on a 41 match winning streak to start the season. The other was a guy with first set stage fright and was just not as good a clay court player. The 2009 Final was obviously his most important moment on clay, but it wasn't his best match even if it was still good/great.

serve is the serve and you can't deny his ground game was better in 2009 just because he was physically more capable at 27-28 than 29-30. And he served arguable even better in 2009 but I'll say it is even because of Djoker's returning. Balls were also lighter which helped Fed a lot. Still a very good match but I think 2009 FO and 2006 Rome were better.

 

[Steve0904]

Don't forget the AO 2007 semi.

I didn't. I just thought that the 2 I mentioned were better than that one for sure so I left it at that. There's no doubt that Federer's 2011 win over Djokovic at RG is up there though. It was a "turn black the clock" type match. His FH and serve were incredible and the 1st set is some of the best tennis I've ever seen from 2 players collectively.

 

[Steve0904]

serve is the serve and you can't deny his ground game was better in 2009 just because he was physically more capable at 27-28 than 29-30. And he served arguable even better in 2009 but I'll say it is even because of Djoker's returning. Balls were also lighter which helped Fed a lot. Still a very good match but I think 2009 FO and 2006 Rome were better.

As I said, 2009 was most important, but there is absolutely no way it is better than beating an unbeaten Djokovic. Just because he was older didn't mean he couldn't play prime level tennis for one match.

 

[metsman]

As I said, 2009 was most important, but there is absolutely no way it is better than beating an unbeaten Djokovic. Just because he was older didn't mean he couldn't play prime level tennis for one match.

beating a better opponent doesn't automatically mean better level. 2011 was a more impressive victory but not a higher level imo

 

[Steve0904]

beating a better opponent doesn't automatically mean better level. 2011 was a more impressive victory but not a higher level imo

Fine, but I believe the opposite. Actually, that's not exactly right. I believe 2011 was a higher level AND a more impressive victory.

 

[Captain Grant]

Yes it may be arguable he was playing better than djoker, but doesn't suddenly mean he's at his peak. Federer doesn't have to be in his peak to beat djoker. Djokovic isn't some unbeatable machine that only lost cause u think fed was at his peak. He was far from it. These Djokovic fans are deluded.

Djokovic confidently leads Roger in Slam+WTF h2h. These Federer fans are deluded even more.

 

[MasterZeb]

Djokovic confidently leads Roger in Slam+WTF h2h. These Federer fans are deluded even more.

Congrats.

 

[MasterZeb]

Djokovic confidently leads Roger in Slam+WTF h2h. These Federer fans are deluded even more.

That's not my point anyway. I'm saying that just because fed beat djoker doesn't automatically make him at his peak form. No where did I say federer is better than djoker, or vice versa. Yes on the day, he was in great form, but doesnt mean that was peak federer.

 

[Captain Grant]

That's not my point anyway. I'm saying that just because fed beat djoker doesn't automatically make him at his peak form. No where did I say federer is better than djoker, or vice versa. Yes on the day, he was in great form, but doesnt mean that was peak federer.

It wasn't peak Djoker either. Just another great Fedovic match where Fed was playing at 85% of his peak form and Djokovic at 78%.

 

[merwy]

I think the fact that Fed choked so badly kind of ruins his performance in the Rome 2006 final. Please don't say that he didn't choke. When you go up a break in the fifth and have match points and still lose, you choked. Yes, I know he was playing the clay god Nadal but when you get that far, you should be able to finish it as well. Same with all the other matches where he was so close to winning.

 

[MasterZeb]

It wasn't peak Djoker either. Just another great Fedovic match where Fed was playing at 85% of his peak form and Djokovic at 78%.

Arguable percentages and whether djoker was peak or not(best form of his life still to this date) but Yes, it was a great match. I think it was more vice versa, with djoker being 85%, and fed being 78%

 

[TheMaestro1990]

You think so? What about the USO 2004 Final or the YEC Final in 2003 for example.

Also amazing. But I think he faced stiffer competition in the FO semi. Djokovic was 4-0 in sets against peak Nadal on clay that spring.

 

[Captain Grant]

Also amazing. But I think he faced stiffer competition in the FO semi. Djokovic was 4-0 in sets against peak Nadal on clay that spring.

Thanks for objective Federer fans proving that Fed's absolute peak was in 2011. 1-4 h2h record vs Djoker baby!

 

[Steve0904]

Also amazing. But I think he faced stiffer competition in the FO semi. Djokovic was 4-0 in sets against peak Nadal on clay that spring.

Fair enough. Personally, I would pick the double bagelling of Hewitt in the USO 2004 Final, but that RG SF is a fair pick. It was an awesome match from both players.

 

[Captain Grant]

Arguable percentages and whether djoker was peak or not(best form of his life still to this date) but Yes, it was a great match. I think it was more vice versa, with djoker being 85%, and fed being 78%

Djokovic was at 85% in Rome-11 final, his form wasn't as deadly at RG, the clutchless and ruthlessness weren't there. Actually it's interesting that Federer had mp vs Nole in USO-11 SF while Nadal was brutally hammered in USO final .

 

[nowhereman]

Thanks for objective Federer fans proving that Fed's absolute peak was in 2011. 1-4 h2h record vs Djoker baby!

Fed is still yet to peak. Fed just keeps getting better with age according to the geniuses on here, so we'll have to wait until he reaches his 80's at least to see his peak level of play. Maybe even later than that.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Rome 2006.

 

[Captain Grant]

Fed is still yet to peak. Fed just keeps getting better with age according to the geniuses on here, so we'll have to wait until he reaches his 80's at least to see his peak level of play. Maybe even later than that.

What's with your hyperbolizations lol? Fed wasn't old in 2011 and you all forget the most important factor which is Fed was forced to evolve after Djokovic and Nadal raised the bar higher in 2008-2011 compared to 2004-2007, Roger should have progressed to make it competetive vs Djokodal, so in reality his absolute peak was in 2011-2012.

 

[Captain Grant]

Rome 2006.

You weren't even watching tennis back then