FH Backswing - Loop vs non-Loop

[freewalker]

Almost all advanced players use loop backswing on FH. I recently watched Tom Avery's Consistent Tennis Wins video. Tom does NOT use loop backswing on FH. Instead, he moves racquet back directly with racquet face closed.

I am an imtermiediate level palyer. When I just started playing tennis, the instructor in our tennis class told me to use a non-loop FH backswing. Therefore, I still move racquet back directly on FH.

My questions are:

1. What are the advantages of using loop FH backswing instead of moving racquet back directly?

2. I currently do not use loop backswing on FH. Should I change to loop backwing as my skills improve?

Thank you so much for reading this post and please let me know what you think?

 

[hotcoffee]

In another Tom Avery video he says that the loop backswing allows more power to be generated since your racquet is already moving at around 15 mph before you actually initiate the swing. This is on his backhand video, but my guess is the same would apply to the forehand. He specifies that the non-loop allows for a quicker response however, especially helpful for returns and such.

 

[freewalker]

Tom Avery did show two different backswing for BH. But he always uses non-loop backswing FH in all his videos. I am wondering if any other advanced players also use the same FH backswing.

In another Tom Avery video he says that the loop backswing allows more power to be generated since your racquet is already moving at around 15 mph before you actually initiate the swing. This is on his backhand video, but my guess is the same would apply to the forehand. He specifies that the non-loop allows for a quicker response however, especially helpful for returns and such.

 

[alan-n]

1. Long loop is good for more racket head speed to generate more power and/or spin... Its much easier hitting top spin with a long low -> high loop.

2. No you should ADD the long loop to your disposal of forehands... short take backs are still used for put away approach shots, returns, when you are handcuffed, defensive shot etc.

 

[vin]

As many people say, I think the best forehand for a club player to model is Agassi's. Especially his backswing

If you look at clips of him, you'll see that he starts his backswing with his hand shoulder height and far in front of (or away from) his body. He does just enough of a loop to gain some racquet speed without moving his wrist around (too small of a backswing will usually encourage wrist movement). Just a bit after his racquet starts coming down from the peak of the backswing, he uses his left arm to stretch his front shoulder and begin shoulder rotation. This helps to externally rotate his hitting shoulder sooner and is one of the keys to his forehand. If you watch his clips, the part where his elbow starts coming down towards his body and forward is largely facilitated by both shoulders being stretched early and the resulting shoulder rotation.

If you look at his return of serve, he uses a similar backswing that is not as high, which indicates how efficient it is.

Make sense?

If that's too advanced for you, and you want at least a small loop, focus on getting your hand shoulder height, away from your body, and keeping your wrist quiet. It's important to make sure you're not using your wrist in your backswing to position the racquet. Think of moving your arm from below your elbow as a unit. For that matter, you elbow shouldn't be moving too much either.

Also make sure to start your backswing early enough so that it is not rushed. A good split step, unit turn, and focusing on the proper contact point will help that.

If you like hitting hard, also check how far you bring the racquet back. It's most efficient to keep your elbow in front of your body plane during the entire backswing. If you were to draw a line through your hips, or your shoulders, it's best to keep your elbow from going beyond this point. This is because your elbow needs to be in front of your body plane at contact, and if it's not there during the backswing, you're going to need better timing to compensate. As Agassi proves, a big wind up is not necessary for major power.

If you want more info, look here:
Jelena Dokic and the Millenium Forehand at tennisone.com
all Forehand material at easitennis.com

Both sites cost money.

 

[splink779]

what about Jim Courier?

 

[VashTheStampede]

He has a very small loop, even though he has a two inch backswing. Sometimes it looks as if he doesn't have a backswing at all.

 

[mucat]

I think loop or no loop swing has very little to do with swing speed benefit. I use to have loopy swing when I was younger, it was more fancy looking and the Pro do it so I copied it. Now as I get older, I use straight backswing most of the time. I use loopy swing only when I have time (a sitter) and/or I want to be tricky. Loopy swing is good for disguise, I can hit all type of shots from a loopy swing, tops, slice, flat, drop, high volley, even directional disguise, I can use the same loopy takeback, very difficult to read. However, a loopy swing has more potential for a mishit, since it is a more complicated motion than straight backswing.

 

[Camilio Pascual]

I use a big loop on clay for timing purposes and to accelerate the racquet up for lots of topspin.
A smaller, mainly timing loop on hard courts.
A direct straight takeback against big shots where there is little time to execute the shot.

 

[K Coria]

What about BH backswing???

Loopy backswings have many benefits to generate more power on both wings.
Especially for laying wrist down is much easier and more efficient with loopy swings...

 

[vin]

However, a loopy swing has more potential for a mishit, since it is a more complicated motion than straight backswing.

I don't think so. A moderate backswing like Agassi's can give you more ability to adjust your timing and the height of your swing. The key is preparation. I bet many club level players wait too long to start their backswing. Then the backswing is rushed and that is when the mishits occur.

When you bring your racquet straight back, you can get it back quicker, but there is less margin for error on timing. And if you bring it back too early, or too low, you're in trouble.

 

[freewalker]

Thank you all for your information.

I am still confused about whether I should change FH backswing to a loopy one.

I am a 3.5 level player and want to improve my skills within the next several years. But I found my FH lacks power and I am wondering whether this is caused by my backswing.

Are there any advanced players who do not use a loopy FH backswing and move racquet back directly?

 

[vin]

Thank you all for your information.

I am still confused about whether I should change FH backswing to a loopy one.

I am a 3.5 level player and want to improve my skills within the next several years. But I found my FH lacks power and I am wondering whether this is caused by my backswing.

My advice is to pay the membership to easitennis.com and read all of their forehand stuff. Then do some of the drills they offer, especially the 'walkabout drill'. This will give you an understanding and a feel for the way internal rotation of the shoulder generates power in the forehand.

If you try to produce power from your backswing alone, you'll almost definitely add more problems to your swing. The backswing is more of a head start or an add on to power rather than the primary producer of it.

Are there any advanced players who do not use a loopy FH backswing and move racquet back directly?

Sjeng Schalken. Finished 2004 ranked at 60 in the world. I'm sure there's other pros as well, but I don't know who they are.

You certainly don't need a loop to have a good, or even a powerful forehand. The loop was a mystery to me for a long time and I ended up teaching myself the forehand backwards. Maybe that will work for you too. Once you have the significant mechanics of the swing down, then start experimenting with a loop again.

 

[Mahboob Khan]

To beginners, non-loop backswing is taught because they cannot control the bigger swing with loop. As their ability improves, loop is incorporated. Now the question is: does loop add to power? The answer is yes.

Throw a stone toward the sky. The stone goes up and then crashes down (gravity). If your take back is high, it will then go down without any effort. This effortless motion is called momentum. Obviously with looping backswing the distance of the racket to the point of contact is increased. This increased distance allows the racket to generate speed along the way. Thus, the distance of the racket before contact and after contact add to power.

What are the disadvantages of the non-loop backswing? You get tired quickly. Why? Since the racket is closer to the ground, the ground pulls the racket to itself (benefit of falling down effect unavailable). Thus, there is struggle between you and the ground!

OK, on return of serve, and emergency shots, the loop can be eliminated and a straight take back will do the trick:

-- more time, more swing

-- Less time, less swing

-- No time, no swing

 

[K Coria]

surely huge loop is not necessary (like Hewitt's) but wrist bend can not be provided by flat backswing easily.
If you point your racket towards sky at your backswing. You will notice the diffrence with the natural drop of the racket head.
Guga Coria and Federer's backswings may be a good guide to anybody wantin to improve his forehand.

 

[Mahboob Khan]

Lleyton Hewitt's western grip demands bigger loop and higher point of contact!

 

[bob]

I use a pog os around a 4.5 player:

I use a straight take back for most forehands. However on short balls where I have to come in I like to loop my swing to ensure that I swing through it.

 

[paulfreda]

Adding the loop

Yes, you should add a loop swing to your FH development, NOT replace your no loop swing.
Get out to a wall and start swinging with big loops. At first the ball will go all over the place. Framed shots, wild shots, etc. But then you will start to figure it out.
One suggestion though. A big loop swing is a low-high-low-high looping action. This is clearly most compatible with generating topspin. (see all the clay courters with these loopy swings) With a loopy low to high swing you will have the most success with stronger grips. So if you use an Eastern FH grip, you will have serious control problems and may be better off staying away from learning the loop.
If you hit with a Semi-western or a Full Western you should get the hang of it quickly. But learning to hit a FWFH is very difficult if you have not tried it before. So I recommend the SW.

 

[Serve-And-Volley]

It would be up to you but I hit a very loopy forehand. I think there are a lot of benefits to it. First I can go under the ball putting more topspin on it. Another advantage is that I can put more pace and move it through the court faster. I also think that I can place the ball better with my loopy forehand. If it were me I would begin to go into taking a loopy forehand.

 

[alan-n]

Since you mentioned that you want to add more power at this stage of the game.... You should practice a "defensive" forehand shot. This technique should help you improve all your forehand shots since you focus purely of striking the ball cleanly by taking the racquet through it....

Instead of taking a long loppy swing. Practice taking the racquest straight back, close your body by bending your elbow. When you are ready to hit the ball, "punch" your racquet straight through it and complete your regular follow through motion.

For a long time I purely practiced that shot and it helped me develop the additional power to really rip heavy top spin winners with tremendous pace by learning how to use my elbow / body / shoulder / forward momentum for additional power.

Again, short take back vs long.... It doesn't matter, all the advanced (4.5+) players use different techniques for different shots, simply because its what suits the player and type of shot best.

 

[mucat]

I don't think so. A moderate backswing like Agassi's can give you more ability to adjust your timing and the height of your swing. The key is preparation. I bet many club level players wait too long to start their backswing. Then the backswing is rushed and that is when the mishits occur.

When you bring your racquet straight back, you can get it back quicker, but there is less margin for error on timing. And if you bring it back too early, or too low, you're in trouble.

I was using PS 6.0 85. When I was playing with someone of lower level, the ball didn't come back as fast, I can use loopy swing all the time (maybe 9/10 times). When I was playing with my regular tennis buddy, he is about the same skill as me maybe even a little better, he murders short balls, he comes to the net given the right moment, he could hit the ball deep, and sometimes even heavy. I learn that with the 85, I really cannot afford loopy swing when I was playing against him, I also learn taking big cut at the ball is a no no with the 85. I have to hit more flat, and when I hit topspin, I have to use a really compact and short backswing and whip at the ball really hard through a very short distance. I use eastern FH, so a nonloopy swing works about the same as a loopy one.

Well, now I switched to a TiRad OS, no more mishit problem and I can take huge cut at the ball, I can also do all out swing inside-out FH and running all out swing DTL, I could never do those with the 85.

I agree with paulfreda, learn the loop and use both.

 

[skuludo]

I think I have a 2 inch backswing. It is really compact. I don't have any problems generating power. Also I could play like this for 6 hours straight with no breaks. 6 hours is not my limit, but the sky gets dark here. Thats the longest I get to play outdoors during the winter.

 

[K Coria]

Hewitt is not the only one who uses western

Lleyton Hewitt's western grip demands bigger loop and higher point of contact!

Actually he doesn't use full western. Anyway Ferrero, Guga and Coria also use storong semi western (like Hewitt). Their backswing is not so huge.

 

[freewalker]

I just found that Tennis Magazine has an article about loop backswing.

http://www.tennis.com/instruction/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=142916&itype=1481

 

[papa]

I use a pog os around a 4.5 player:

I use a straight take back for most forehands. However on short balls where I have to come in I like to loop my swing to ensure that I swing through it.

Although I use the same racquet, it has little, if anything, to do with the backswing one uses. However, I basically do the opposite of you on my backswing. When your either closing on net or in most vollies, the backswing should be very limited with a couple of minor exceptions - much easier to control the shot.

 

[ucd_ace]

I loop. I didn't at one point, but I just picked it up from watching better players. I feel like it allows to better time my shots as I'm keeping my racquet moving instead of taking it back, stopping, then swinging, and also gives me more power because you have more racquet head speed because you're maintaining your momentum.

It wasn't difficult at all for me to make the transition. You maintain your original swing path for the most part, just changing how you get your racquet to the point where you begin your swing.

 

[papa]

I loop. I didn't at one point, but I just picked it up from watching better players. I feel like it allows to better time my shots as I'm keeping my racquet moving instead of taking it back, stopping, then swinging, and also gives me more power because you have more racquet head speed because you're maintaining your momentum.

It wasn't difficult at all for me to make the transition. You maintain your original swing path for the most part, just changing how you get your racquet to the point where you begin your swing.

Well actually the swing path can be quite different because with the "loop" the racquet head will generally fall "LOWER" (Newton's gravity) than if one brings the racquet straight back. Bringing the racquet back at shoulder height (which is what I prefer) will give you a nice controled loop and provide a lot of topspin.