First serve grip

[nickellwood]

Hi guys,

I'm recently having massive problems with my first and second serve percentages at the moment, which is effectively killing me in sets as I'm being broken constantly and losing matches as a result.

By reading around these forums a little bit, I'm trying to find advice to help me with my serves. Instead of using my 'natural grip' for my serve, I'm trying to go back to basics and I've began using a continental grip, with my index knuckle on the second bevel. The only thing is, is that it feels quite hard to get used to.

Despite it feeling a bit strange, I have noticed a few more first serves going in, however I feel that I have a lost a little bit of MPH.

Is this normal, and do most club players, "pros" play with this grip? Cheers

 

[LeeD]

Saw my name mentioned.....
Conti, or some variation of conti.
Boris Becker used an eastern forehand variation of continental.
Lots of good second serves are hit with and eastern backhand version of continental.
A fraction of 1% insist on eastern forehand, or SW forehand, but they are lower than 4.5 levels.

 

[ProgressoR]

I have seen good club players serve with EBH grip for spinny serves. I personally use conti or just to the EBH side of conti for all serves. From what I see, a lot of good club players use conti or just a little away from it for most serves, and also perhaps shifting more towards EBH for top or kickers.

 

[mightyrick]

If I am going to hit a more flattish serve, then I'll hold a standard continental. If I am going to hit a slice (or even a kick), I'll turn towards eastern backhand.

Even though EBH robs the serve of a lot of pace, it translates all of that into spin. IMHO, on a slice serve it is the spin and placement that is much more critical than pace.

 

[Chas Tennis]

............... Instead of using my 'natural grip' for my serve, I'm trying to go back to basics and I've began using a continental grip, with my index knuckle on the second bevel. The only thing is, is that it feels quite hard to get used to.
............................................

Grips work better with a particular serving motion and type serve. About the only models that we are copying are the high level serves as performed by pro or other high level players. They all use the same serving technique based mostly on internal shoulder rotation(ISR), a specific joint motion where the straight arm is rotated axially using mostly pre-stretched muscles. First, you have to understand the motion. Then do it with an adequate grip. Then you have to verify that you are using it with high speed video. Then the grip can be optimized.

(There is also a lower level serve called a Waiter's Tray technique where a forehand grip works best. You might be using that. ? )

Four Reference Points, 2 on hand, 2 on racket handle One thing about a grip is that if you place one knuckle on a spot on bevel 2 you can still rotate the rest of the hand 360° around that one knuckle as center. It is best to place two reference points of the hand on two reference points on the racket bevels. Also, the references points can be placed anywhere you choose, each on the same bevel, each on different bevels,....on half bevels, etc. The best serving grips probably involve placing say the index finger knuckle on bevel 2 and the 'fat pad' of the hand on bevel 1 or between 1 and 2.

Thread discussing grips with Pat Dougherty video.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=483360

As you noticed I also find that the grip feel for the serve is one of the most ingrained 'muscle memories'.

 

[nickellwood]

Thanks for the very helpful responses - appreciate it!

 

[Chas Tennis]

Ellenbecker video on shoulder orientation on the serve to minimize impingement risk

You should be aware of this video on the shoulder and how to orient the shoulder to minimize the risk of shoulder impingement on the serve. Check out videos and pictures of pro and high level servers and you will find that they use this orientation around impact. You don't need high speed video to see some of this stuff.

I believe that serving with ISR is never forced and could cause injury if practiced incorrectly. Here are some known issues. With forceful and rapid ISR the small external shoulder rotator cuff muscles have to be conditioned to keep the ball of the humerus in place and to stop the arm rotation in the follow through. See recommended shoulder conditioning exercises. Easy, light exercises.

There are also the important safety issues related to technique such as the shoulder high orientation for the serve to minimize impingement risk. Just one very bad motion can cause injury.

1) Jim McLennan short video on the rotator cuff, impingement and serving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s

2) Todd Ellenbecker video on shoulder anatomy, impingement, and serving. At about minute 8 he describes the same issue as McLennan but in more detail.
http://www.tennisresources.com/index.cfm?area=video_detail&vidid=3712&ATT=&reso=lo

If you are concerned because you are having pain, how can you determine that the technique that you use is OK? You have to study and know the proper technique and verify that you are doing it with high speed video or find a well qualified instructor. Keep in mind that the more rapid motions during the serve cannot be seen by eye or even 60 fps video so an instructor who uses HSV is a plus.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Serena Williams and Boris Becker use/used something close to a semi-continental for 1st serves and a fairly standard continental for more spin on the 2nd serve. For students who have too much trouble adjusting to a full conti grip, I suggest a semi-continental instead. Have gotten very decent results with this. After some time, most of these semi-conti students are able to make a standard conti grip work for spin serves. The base index knuckle for a semi-continental grip would be between bevels 2 and 3 (the heel pad may vary a bit from one player to the next).

The following image show a grip that is a semi-continental grip which is biased a bit toward a standard continental grip:

http://www.tennisserver.com/turbo/images/turbo_97_10/fig1r.JPG