Has anybody tried this tip from The Serve Doctor?

[HunterST]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88

I definitely understand the concept. When I practice the serve motion with the foot coming up I can feel how the wind would help get power. But when I try to really hit a ball it kind of falls apart.

Does anyone use this type of wind up? What are your results? What are other ways to achieve a tight wind before serving?

 

[Greek Goliath]

It seems like a pretty simple motion. In my opinion though, there are other ways to get wound up before serving.

The thing I do is point my front foot roughly parallel to the baseline and my rear foot at the rear fence post. This helps get my body turned sideways. Then, I toss the ball with my arm parallel to my baseline, and imagine that I want to show my back to my opponent. This puts my torso facing the rear fence for a really tight wind. Unfortunately, I have a poor sense of timing, which is holding back my serve, but my windup is where I want it to be.

 

[larry10s]

buy his dvd mph. i spent 3 days with him one on one major upgrade to my serve. pat has my super enthusiastic endorsement.

 

[HunterST]

buy his dvd mph. i spent 3 days with him one on one major upgrade to my serve. pat has my super enthusiastic endorsement.

Did he have you use the technique from this video, or did he have you use some other method to get a "tight wind"?

I was hoping they'd have his video for sale here at TW but I didn't see it.

 

[crash1929]

yes i've been trying this advice. seems good. but i'm not getting something right as i feel a lack of power in the motion.

 

[mlewis721]

Thanks for posting the link. Great stuff.

 

[Larrysümmers]

yes i've been trying this advice. seems good. but i'm not getting something right as i feel a lack of power in the motion.

Same here. I feel like I do it to fast. I like to go through the motions on my shots and I don't feel like I can on this serve because there isn't much of a motion.

 

[Zachol82]

Meh, to each their own I guess. I fall into the court as I serve, I don't think this motion will work for me. Sure, it's a good concept but it seems like you'd need an extremely powerful core to crank the pace up.

 

[decades]

this is not a classic motion. rather it seems to be like the newer abbreviated motion that Roddick and Tsonga monfils use where the racket does not go back very far but rather a little loop then straight up into trophy pose.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I attempted this type of service motion a few months back. I was able to teach it to myself after watching this video in a relatively short time. I find that I can generate quite a bit of spin and power with this approach. Hard to say why others in this thread are having problems with it. But then, I've been able to pick up quite a few other serving styles without too much trouble either. So far, I've only taught this serve to one other person. She was able to pick it fairly easily as well, with some very decent results.

There is also some video instruction on the Tennis.com site on this type of serve that may prove helpful. Look for the "The Retro Serve" on the first link below. Not sure why the Serve Doc calls it "retro" but there is some additional explanation in the 2nd link below.

http://72.3.178.93/media/video/index.aspx

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2097888

I do not believe that you necessarily need a powerful core to pull this off. You really just need to learn how to use the differential between the hips and the torso to create the added tension in the core to produce the desired results. I've talked a bit about this in the following threads:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4140811

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=3525405

.

 

[EP1998]

I recommend getting the DVD from his site. There is a whole section on it with more tips to understand how to get the muscles to fire, improve throwing, etc. Even if you dont switch to his serve exactly you will improve your existing serve. Cheaper than a tennis lesson with many pros who dont know as much as Pat. I agree that it is not so much a strong core as a flexible one and body awareness. The player needs to understand how to store energy in the core in the loading phase and release it. Same as in groundstrokes. Same in all sports actually.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ All good points, BJones.

 

[larry10s]

link to dvd. will post comments later/ gotta work
http://servedoctor.com/

 

[Roddicked]

It seems like a good technique. Reminds me a lot of Ivanisevic.

 

[larry10s]

Did he have you use the technique from this video, or did he have you use some other method to get a "tight wind"?

I was hoping they'd have his video for sale here at TW but I didn't see it.

i use a platform stance. he did not try to change that . he got me to "tight wind" by having me turn my shouders away from the net more as i tossed the ball .we worked on chest position and upward throw mechanics. etc. every thing he talks about in his dvd.. VERY PRODUCTIVE 3 DAYS
this thread talks alot about my experience
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=288278

 

[HunterST]

I think the reason I had trouble with it is that I have a traditional, wide loop take back. It looks like everyone that uses this serve has an abbreviated motion. I think that loop, along with the leg moving up leads to a bunch of movement complicating things.

 

[LeeD]

Seems basic coil-recoil, so a normal serve to me.
How else can you serve? Or throw, or kick? Or push, or pull?

 

[HunterST]

Seems basic coil-recoil, so a normal serve to me.
How else can you serve? Or throw, or kick? Or push, or pull?

I keep my feet planted during the wind up like Federer. (well, not LIKE Federer, but it looks the same). In this retro serve, they bring the back foot up almost parallel with the front foot.

My flat serve is only about 80 mph. I think one of the big reasons is I get virtually no wind up. My shoulders don't get turned, core doesn't get twisted etc.

I only tried about 5 serves like this so I probably need to spend some more time with it. I still think moving my feet combined with my traditional loop creates too much motion. I thought about just starting with my feet in this position.

 

[LeeD]

Pinpoint is where you want to head, but some players DON'T use it and serve just peachy keen.
Do not start with feet together. You need a relaxed, wide stance, about 20", so you can rock back, then forwards, taking your backfoot with you.
Pinpoint service stance is not better or worse than platform, but for most players, it adds power. But not nearly enough to make up for a "80mph" serve. Adopting pinpoint might make your serve 83 mph with a little less control.

 

[EP1998]

^ All good points, BJones.

Thx!

Actually the Ani song in your sig reminded me of another serve tip. It is out there on youtube, but Pat's hammer that serve drill is a very good one for the OP to try!

 

[larry10s]

I keep my feet planted during the wind up like Federer. (well, not LIKE Federer, but it looks the same). In this retro serve, they bring the back foot up almost parallel with the front foot.

My flat serve is only about 80 mph. I think one of the big reasons is I get virtually no wind up. My shoulders don't get turned, core doesn't get twisted etc.

I only tried about 5 serves like this so I probably need to spend some more time with it. I still think moving my feet combined with my traditional loop creates too much motion. I thought about just starting with my feet in this position.

try turning your shoulders away from the net and pretend you want to thraow a baseball from center feild to home plate. you can use a loop take back and have a platform stance and still get the coil. its the angle of your shoulders (more closed) related to your hips.

 

[HunterST]

Pinpoint is where you want to head, but some players DON'T use it and serve just peachy keen.
Do not start with feet together. You need a relaxed, wide stance, about 20", so you can rock back, then forwards, taking your backfoot with you.
Pinpoint service stance is not better or worse than platform, but for most players, it adds power. But not nearly enough to make up for a "80mph" serve. Adopting pinpoint might make your serve 83 mph with a little less control.

LeeD, do you really think 80 is that slow? Obviously it's brutally slow compared to a pro's serve, but I would imagine most 3.5s or 4.0s don't serve much faster than that. 90 to 100 is really starting to get to be a higher level serve.

Just for the record, I am in no way satisfied with my serve, but I'm not sure it's a glaring weakness against other players below 4.5. I could even see quite a few 3.5s making more errors off of it than forcing returns.


Back to the topic, though. What do you suggest I do to get a good wind and more power (other than pinpoint). I remember that you have a good serve, how do you get your body into it?

 

[HunterST]

try turning your shoulders away from the net and pretend you want to thraow a baseball from center feild to home plate. you can use a loop take back and have a platform stance and still get the coil. its the angle of your shoulders (more closed) related to your hips.

Thanks Larry. Have any videos? I was looking at Federer and he doesn't really turn his shoulders that much.

 

[forehandshanker]

I tried the so-called retro serve for one basket of balls, and found that I couldn't get my kick serve in. While I got more pace on the ball, I lost accuracy and consistency. It was nice experiment to learn that it was not worth it for me.

At any rate, Venus Williams is someone who currently uses this retro stance, which does not say anything about whether it's the right stance for you.

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, 80 is about 2/3 speed of the pros, and even most rising 5.5's.
If you're OK with that, cool.
Me, no way. At C level, timed at 129.4 on best of 7 serves, all others over 125.
But then, I wasn't happy being a C player (3.5), won a C, then played Open or 5.5's exclusively.....back where I thought I belonged.

 

[HunterST]

Yeah, 80 is about 2/3 speed of the pros, and even most rising 5.5's.
If you're OK with that, cool.
Me, no way. At C level, timed at 129.4 on best of 7 serves, all others over 125.
But then, I wasn't happy being a C player (3.5), won a C, then played Open or 5.5's exclusively.....back where I thought I belonged.

I'm not satisfied with it at all. I'm just saying, I can't get caught up comparing my game to the pros right now. I'm 20 and have been playing 16 months. They've all been playing since they were 6. If I compare any aspect of my game to the pros I'm going to look pretty damn awful.

below the 5.0 level though, I don't think there are too many serves above 100 mph and probably only a few in the 90s.

Ultimately, I'd love to have a serve that would be effective at the 5.5 level, but I have to focus on getting it to be a real weapon at 4.0 first.

 

[LeeD]

Sorry, you're basically fully grown and can't hit a real first serve. Could be totally poor technique, most likely you can't serve period.
16 months of tennis is easily enough for anyone to know maximum service speeds. For sure, they should come close to 80% possible speeds.
If your serve is really 80mph for your fastest, you'd better strongly consider a tennis career of running, fetching, getting, retrieving, and pushing.
Assuming you're a normal sized GUY.