I don't play play tennis but my kids do. At one of my daughter's tournaments a coach of another competitor complimented my daughter's power off her forehand but stated that her back swing was way too large and that would hinder her as she faced stronger players and faster paced balls. I purchased one of the coaching video apps for my iPad that can show slow motion video and was astounded by how large my daughter's back swing is. She brings her hand over her head, you can see her arm on the other side of her body when you face her and her contact point is at her hip so she follows through into her chest about 80% of the time. I was very upset with her coach for not recognizing this and making changes. So while I look for another coach I want to start to help her shorten that back swing. As I mentioned earlier I am not a tennis player but I can feed balls out of a basket. Any suggestions as to how to start? I'm considering tying shoestring to her wrists so that if she tries to make a huge loop she will be prevented from doing so from the limited length of the shoestring.
Help with shortening a back swing
- Thread starter Tcbtennis
- Start date
TomT
Hall of Fame
In order to get help from some of the coaches and good players at TT (not me), you'll need to post some video ... preferably from a behind (as well as in front of) the player perspective, I think.
Since its my daughter I'm very hesitant to put video of her on the Internet. Sorry. Any suggestions that can be based on my description of her would be appreciated.
TomT
Hall of Fame
What are you worried about? You can shoot videos of her rallying from a behind the player perspective, then post on YouTube as "Private".
I doubt that you'll get many useful replies without video.
Cheetah
Hall of Fame
I'll bet she's letting go of the racquet w/ her off hand too early and also probably not doing the unit turn correctly.
Make sure she is holding the racquet w/ both hands during the unit turn. when her off hand, while still holding the racquet, gets to about her opposite shoulder she can then release and extend that arm parallel to the baseline while the racquet either drops down from there or go back a little farther like women tend to do.
like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgFBKFNSv8g
Make sure she is holding the racquet w/ both hands during the unit turn. when her off hand, while still holding the racquet, gets to about her opposite shoulder she can then release and extend that arm parallel to the baseline while the racquet either drops down from there or go back a little farther like women tend to do.
like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgFBKFNSv8g
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
The swing path of a modern forehand is generated primarily with upper body rotation and supination/pronation of the arm. There is very little independent swing of the arm from the shoulder.
So, with a wide, low, open stance, the racquet head right in front of her face at head level, her right hand at about stomach level, her left hand on the throat of the racquet, the racquet pointing straight up, and the hitting face of the racquet pointing towards the target, she rotates her upper body until her chest is facing about 4 O'Clock (from above). The face of the racquet will now also be facing about 4 O'Clock, her left hand is still on the throat of the racquet, the racquet is still pointing straight up. This is the full backswing, AND HER ARM HAS NOT MOVED AT ALL. Through upper body rotation, the hand has traveled straight back at stomach level, and the racquet head has traveled straight back at head level.
Here's a great forehand lesson that shows what I'm talking about. This coach does have a slight circular backswing rather than totally straight back, but, it is substantially as I describe above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EMNtq393tvo
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TomT
Hall of Fame
Ok, that was pretty helpful, imo. Never mind posting videos Tcbtennis.
By the way, Limpinhitter, I've noticed, experimenting with trying to approximate the sort of racquet prep that the lockandrolltennis guy uses (in the video you provided above), that this sort of forehand racquet prep (as opposed to my usual forehand racquet prep), as well as bringing the racquet up in a sort of similar manner preparing for the 1HBH, seems to produce a more consistently solid shot.
Video at 11 (tomorrow, if it doesn't rain, in another thread).
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Yes, it is probably the lack of a proper unit-turn. My youngest daughter is working on this issue now. She wants to go back with the arm rather than turning the shoulders. As Cheetah mentioned, keeping the off hand on the racquet will be a big help. She should try to not let go until her shoulders have turned 90 deg. and are facing the side fence.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Have your daughter execute tons of shadow swings (no ball) every day for 5 minutes or so. Have her use the preferred unit turn and a more conservative loop backswing. The repetition of shadow swings should help to promote new muscle memory. She can also perform these shadow swings in front of a mirror or large glass window for added feedback.
Have her also practice some shots with some self feeds. As she does this, hold a racket or some large object above her head as a governor. If she hits the racket/object, it should serve as a reminder to avoid the excessive looping action. Also have her hit some balls standing close to the back or side fence to make sure that her takeback is not also going too far behind her.
Have her watch a lot of videos as well showing the preferred preparation. The Lock & Roll video is a good one. Also look for a variety of slo-mo vids of Federer, Agassi, Stosur and others performing their shots. This should help to reinforce the desired action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4j7LDZlZag
Have her also practice some shots with some self feeds. As she does this, hold a racket or some large object above her head as a governor. If she hits the racket/object, it should serve as a reminder to avoid the excessive looping action. Also have her hit some balls standing close to the back or side fence to make sure that her takeback is not also going too far behind her.
Have her watch a lot of videos as well showing the preferred preparation. The Lock & Roll video is a good one. Also look for a variety of slo-mo vids of Federer, Agassi, Stosur and others performing their shots. This should help to reinforce the desired action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4j7LDZlZag
KenC
Hall of Fame
Big loopy backswings are often taught to develop a flow in the strokes that follows the arcing path of the ball. As the ball goes up the racquet goes up, as the ball is coming down, the ball is coming down. I see people at very high levels still using these loopy swings, especially on clay. I don't think it is the worse thing your daughter could be doing and it may help her develop great timing.
If she gets to the intermediate and above levels she could transition to a more straight back backswing, but from there you still have to go further back than the shoulder turn allows to get a good long swingpath.
Some people think shortened swingpaths are great, but there is much less time and distance to develop enough acceleration to match the power one can get from a long swingpath. I would suggest always using a long swingpath when possible to generate power in a relaxed manner and just use the shortened swingpath that results from the shoulder turn when in a jam.
If she gets to the intermediate and above levels she could transition to a more straight back backswing, but from there you still have to go further back than the shoulder turn allows to get a good long swingpath.
Some people think shortened swingpaths are great, but there is much less time and distance to develop enough acceleration to match the power one can get from a long swingpath. I would suggest always using a long swingpath when possible to generate power in a relaxed manner and just use the shortened swingpath that results from the shoulder turn when in a jam.
She probably needs to develop more strength through improved coordination before being able to shorten the backswing and still be competitive in power. As she progresses toward a high level of tennis the backswing should become something very natural with minimal force. This happens when the technique (esp of the force generating forward swing) allows to generate enough power. Without such approach she'll need to generate power to compete and will go right back when the competition time comes. With a good technique she should be able to generate even more power with better control with a short backswing. While practicing, tell her to try to generate more RHS by using parts of the body she didn't fully use before. An examination by a high level coach might help.
Thanks for your advice. My daughter has compensated well and hits a pretty big forehand with such a huge backswing. But I do think it will hinder her when she starts to face players who can hit the faster paced deep balls. I videotaped her hitting against a ball machine and she was still taking back her arm, which was behind her on the other side of her body, while the ball was starting to bounce up to her. She must have tremendous racquet head acceleration to be able to meet the ball and put the amount of pace that she does. But her contact point is at her hip, not in front of her so she looks as though she is jammed every time she hits the ball. She doesn't follow through over her shoulder or at her shoulder or across her body but just across her chest. The only time she does have a good contact point is when she gets a short, low ball that she takes as an approach shot. I'm not sure if her backswing is different with the approach shots. But even with the high short floating balls that she has time to get in good position and attack her contact point is at her hip, her elbow is jammed against her body and her follow through is into her chest. I'm also afraid that she'll injure her elbow or shoulder if she continues this way.
Thanks for your input. She is actually a very strong girl with great RHS which is why I think that she has been able to compensate and hit a big forehand. When I would watch her play I could see that her contact point was not far enough in front but it wasn't until that I did the slow motion video that I could see the extent of her back swing. You are right that with good technique that she may be able to generate even more power off her forehand and we are definitely looking for a better coach for her.
KenC
Hall of Fame
She should be taking the racquet back and letting it drop down while the ball is still in the air and falling. Once the ball has bounced she already should have the racquet low and ready to swing up. The swing really mirrors the up and down of the ball as it travels. So at bounce she has the racquet low ready to meet the rising ball.
It's kinda' like the serve. There are so many variation on the initial movements, but from the trophy pose on it has to all be the same for generating the most power efficiently. No matter how she takes her racquet back, she has to be in the "ready to strike" pose at the bounce or even before. Anything else means she will be hitting late.
Your daughter can try the one-foot drill. That helps to shorten the backswing and teach the unit turn.
Have her stand on just her right foot. On just her right foot, have her shadow swing. As she's taking the racquet back, she can begin striding (as if throwing a ball from a mound) However, she has to stay on just her right foot until she swings through the contact point. At that point, her stride should be complete. After a few swings this way, have her swing normally and observe the changes.
The above "educates" her on how to use her off-hand. This helps to her shorten her backswing and use her lower base for power, rather than "arming" the swing.
Have her stand on just her right foot. On just her right foot, have her shadow swing. As she's taking the racquet back, she can begin striding (as if throwing a ball from a mound) However, she has to stay on just her right foot until she swings through the contact point. At that point, her stride should be complete. After a few swings this way, have her swing normally and observe the changes.
The above "educates" her on how to use her off-hand. This helps to her shorten her backswing and use her lower base for power, rather than "arming" the swing.
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