How comes Andy Murray doesn't have a single losing record against anybody except the big 3?

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Ganstaz003

Rookie
Andy Murray doesn't have a losing negative record against any player outside Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. His worst record is probably against Fabio Fognini. Yet, even then, he still is either 50/50 or has one more win in their match up.

Why is that? Is there a reason for this and does it prove anything?

For example, Rafael Nadal has a losing record against Nikolay Davydenko.

Novak Djokovic has a losing record against Ivo Karlovic and Andy Roddick.

Roger Federer has a losing negative record against some player named 'Krbaty' (forgot exactly who he was).

However, Andy Murray doesn't have a SINGLE negative head to head losing record against any player outside the TOP 3.

Is it fair to say that Andy Murray has ABSOLUTELY NO / 0 'bad match' up problems / issues against any player in history based on him having no losing head to head records against any inferior player, irrespective of whatever style they have? Does that in some way make him more unique than Nadal, Djokovic and Federer, despite all three of them being superior players overall?

Andy Murray has a losing record to the 'top 3' due to them being superior / better players overall. So he doesn't have any 'bad match up' problems against them.

So is it fair to say that Andy Murray is the greatest player against the rest of the field (excluding the 'top 3')?
 
Get A Grip

Get A Grip

Hall of Fame
Ganstaz003 said:
Andy Murray doesn't have a losing negative record against any player outside Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. His worst record is probably against Fabio Fognini. Yet, even then, he still is either 50/50 or has one more win in their match up.

Why is that? Is there a reason for this and does it prove anything?

For example, Rafael Nadal has a losing record against Nikolay Davydenko.

Novak Djokovic has a losing record against Ivo Karlovic and Andy Roddick.

Roger Federer has a losing negative record against some player named 'Krbaty' (forgot exactly who he was).

However, Andy Murray doesn't have a SINGLE negative head to head losing record against any player outside the TOP 3.

Is it fair to say that Andy Murray has ABSOLUTELY NO / 0 'bad match' up problems / issues against any player in history based on him having no losing head to head records against any inferior player, irrespective of whatever style they have? Does that in some way make him more unique than Nadal, Djokovic and Federer, despite all three of them being superior players overall?

Andy Murray has a losing record to the 'top 3' due to them being superior / better players overall. So he doesn't have any 'bad match up' problems against them.

So is it fair to say that Andy Murray is the greatest player against the rest of the field (excluding the 'top 3')?
Click to expand...

Because he is a solid #4. I have been saying this for about 6 years now. It hasn't changed.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Ganstaz003 said:
Andy Murray doesn't have a losing negative record against any player outside Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. His worst record is probably against Fabio Fognini. Yet, even then, he still is either 50/50 or has one more win in their match up.

Why is that? Is there a reason for this and does it prove anything?

For example, Rafael Nadal has a losing record against Nikolay Davydenko.

Novak Djokovic has a losing record against Ivo Karlovic and Andy Roddick.

Roger Federer has a losing negative record against some player named 'Krbaty' (forgot exactly who he was).

However, Andy Murray doesn't have a SINGLE negative head to head losing record against any player outside the TOP 3.

Is it fair to say that Andy Murray has ABSOLUTELY NO / 0 'bad match' up problems / issues against any player in history based on him having no losing head to head records against any inferior player, irrespective of whatever style they have? Does that in some way make him more unique than Nadal, Djokovic and Federer, despite all three of them being superior players overall?

Andy Murray has a losing record to the 'top 3' due to them being superior / better players overall. So he doesn't have any 'bad match up' problems against them.

So is it fair to say that Andy Murray is the greatest player against the rest of the field (excluding the 'top 3')?
Click to expand...

Not QUITE true. He now has a negative H2H against Jordan Thompson (0-1). :cool:

Other than that, it does seem to be hard to find any others off the top of my head (I'm sure some experts will soon be razzing in with other examples).

I guess Andy can be called the ROFGOAT (Rest Of Field Greatest Of All Time)! :)
 
atp2015

atp2015

Hall of Fame
Murray has losing records against Misca Zverev and Baghdatis in majors. Losing records against multiple players in majors is not cool.
 
G

Ganstaz003

Rookie
Mainad said:
Not QUITE true. He now has a negative H2H against Jordan Thompson (0-1). :cool:

Other than that, it does seem to be hard to find any others off the top of my head (I'm sure some experts will soon be razzing in with other examples).

I guess Andy can be called the ROFGOAT (Rest Of Field Greatest Of All Time)! :)
Click to expand...

Fair enough! I didn't notice that. Even then, it's only one match played between them.

I think you're correct. Andy Murray is more likely to beat all the other tennis players (outside Federer, Nadal and Djokovic) than those 3 themselves.

Think about it! Who would you rather have if you were betting on to beat all the other players excluding the 'big four' members. Andy Murray or the likes of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic? Let's put it this way? Who would you rather have playing big hitters like Raonic, Karlovic, Nick Kyrgios and etc. Andy Murray or those other 3 members? Fact is, Andy Murray is superior to the rest of the field than Federer, Nadal and Djokovic and I actually believe that Murray might potentially even be more talented in terms of tennis abilities than the 'big 3'. However, his inferior mental competency when facing them may be the reason why he has negative records against ONLY them.

Andy Murray is one of the most complete, versatile and well rounded players ever with one of the highest tennis IQ and tactical adeptness. He might even put Roger Federer to shame in that department in terms of how versatile he is. The softness of his touches, his slices and his variety of shots are second to none (not even to Federer).
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
atp2015 said:
Good catch, but does not have winning record against Stan in majors (3-3 overall ) and 1-2 this decade.
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Plenty of other top players don't have winning records in Majors against other players either. Djokovic is 0-1 vs Melzer, Federer is 0-1 vs Stakhovsky while Nadal is 0-1 vs both Darcis and Brown. Stan is at least a Slam champion and top player and his H2H with Murray is equal not superior.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Ganstaz003 said:
Fair enough! I didn't notice that. Even then, it's only one match played between them.

I think you're correct. Andy Murray is more likely to beat all the other tennis players (outside Federer, Nadal and Djokovic) than those 3 themselves.

Think about it! Who would you rather have if you were betting on to beat all the other players excluding the 'big four' members. Andy Murray or the likes of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic? Let's put it this way? Who would you rather have playing big hitters like Raonic, Karlovic, Nick Kyrgios and etc. Andy Murray or those other 3 members? Fact is, Andy Murray is superior to the rest of the field than Federer, Nadal and Djokovic and I actually believe that Murray might potentially even be more talented in terms of tennis abilities than the 'big 3'. However, his inferior mental competency when facing them may be the reason why he has negative records against ONLY them.

Andy Murray is one of the most complete, versatile and well rounded players ever with one of the highest tennis IQ and tactical adeptness. He might even put Roger Federer to shame in that department in terms of how versatile he is. The softness of his touches, his slices and his variety of shots are second to none (not even to Federer).
Click to expand...

umm, no.
that's a whole load of cr*p.

As far as playing big hitters/servers go, I'd take federer first ,over Murray, easily.

Also , some h2hs where fedalovic are way better vs other players :


Murray vs Berdych : 11-6 ( at one stage was down 2-4)

Federer vs Berdych : 19-6
Djokovic vs Berdych : 25-2
Nadal vs Berdych : 19-4

Murray vs Stan : 10-8

Federer vs Stan : 20-3
Nadal vs Stan : 16-3
DJokovic vs Stan : 21-5


Murray vs Soderling : 3-2

Federer vs Soderling : 16-1
Nadal vs Soderling : 6-2
Djokovic vs Soderling : 6-1


Murray vs Ferrer : 14-6

Federer vs Ferrer : 16-0
Djokovic vs Ferrer: 16-5
Nadal vs Ferrer : 24-6

Fedalovic are just plain better than Murray vs the field, both physically and mentally.

Even removing matches vs Murray, their win%s are clearly higher than Murray's.
 
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W

Waspsting

Hall of Fame
Ganstaz003 said:
I think you're correct. Andy Murray is more likely to beat all the other tennis players (outside Federer, Nadal and Djokovic) than those 3 themselves.
.
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like it

Win-loss record of Big 4, sans Big 4 -

Djokovic 709-106 @ 87.0%
Nadal 788-134 @ 85.5%
Federer 1061-190 @ 84.8%
Murray 626-128 @ 83.0%

Draw your own conclusions
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
abmk said:
umm, no.
that's a whole load of cr*p.

As far as playing big hitters/servers go, I'd take federer first ,over Murray, easily.
Click to expand...

Just looked at the respective combined H2Hs against the 3 biggest hitters/servers on tour today: Karlovic, Isner and Raonic:

Murray 24-3: (all 3 losses came against Raonic).

Federer: 28-6 (2 losses each against Isner and Raonic, 1 against Karlovic).
Nadal: 18-2 (both losses against Raonic).
Djokovic: 17-4 (2 losses each gainst Karlovic and Isner. Negative H2H of 1-2 against karlovic).

Murray's stats against the big hitters actually stack up remarkably well and are not far behind Federer's.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Mainad said:
Just looked at the respective combined H2Hs against the 3 biggest hitters/servers on tour today: Karlovic, Isner and Raonic:

Murray 24-3: (all 3 losses came against Raonic).

Federer: 28-6 (2 losses each against Isner and Raonic, 1 against Karlovic).
Nadal: 18-2 (both losses against Raonic).
Djokovic: 17-4 (2 losses each gainst Karlovic and Isner. Negative H2H of 1-2 against karlovic).

Murray's stats against the big hitters actually stack up remarkably well and are not far behind Federer's.
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Didn't say just on tour today, was including overall in their careers.

Now throw in the likes of Roddick, Soderling, Stan, Berdych, Tsonga,delpotro, anderson, Cilic, tsonga etc. if you are including big hitters.. Federer's will be clearly ahead %s wise.

If you want to take the biggest 5 servers, it'd be :

Karlovic, Raonic, Isner, Roddick and Anderson.

Federer is 21-3 vs Roddick
Murray is 8-3

Federer is 4-0 vs Anderson
Murray is 6-2


vs the biggest 5 :

federer is 28-5 (not 28-6) + 25-3 = 53-8 (86.88%)

Murray is 24-3+14-5 = 38-8 (82.6%)

vs biggest servers, Murray's #s are pretty good, but still behind Federer's.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
Ganstaz003 said:
Andy Murray doesn't have a losing negative record against any player outside Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. His worst record is probably against Fabio Fognini. Yet, even then, he still is either 50/50 or has one more win in their match up.

Why is that? Is there a reason for this and does it prove anything?

For example, Rafael Nadal has a losing record against Nikolay Davydenko.

Novak Djokovic has a losing record against Ivo Karlovic and Andy Roddick.

Roger Federer has a losing negative record against some player named 'Krbaty' (forgot exactly who he was).

However, Andy Murray doesn't have a SINGLE negative head to head losing record against any player outside the TOP 3.

Is it fair to say that Andy Murray has ABSOLUTELY NO / 0 'bad match' up problems / issues against any player in history based on him having no losing head to head records against any inferior player, irrespective of whatever style they have? Does that in some way make him more unique than Nadal, Djokovic and Federer, despite all three of them being superior players overall?

Andy Murray has a losing record to the 'top 3' due to them being superior / better players overall. So he doesn't have any 'bad match up' problems against them.

So is it fair to say that Andy Murray is the greatest player against the rest of the field (excluding the 'top 3')?
Click to expand...
You're probably the least educated person here in terms of tennis.

Roddick is 1-1 against Murray in majors.
 
TheFifthSet

TheFifthSet

Legend
abmk said:
Murray is :

0-1 vs safin
1-2 vs fernando gonzalez
2-3 vs ancic
1-2 vs clement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Murray_career_statistics

Scroll down to the bottom
Click to expand...


Not a losing record but he's 10-8 against Wawrinka, 2-4 since he became the Staminal, 3-3 in majors.

At one point Berdych was 6-4 against him...but he's lost their last 16 sets.

Fish gave him nightmares, 5-4 h2h in favour of Murray but Mardy owns the longest win streak, beat him 3 times in a row in 2010.

Coric is 2-2 w/him with both wins being very lopsided (6-1, 6-3 and 6-3, 6-3).
 
deacsyoga

deacsyoga

Banned
His head to head against Stan is getting pretty close and Stan has been narrowing it gradually for several years now in fact. I would not be entirely surprised if Stan catches or passes by the time one retires, especialy if Murray continues his slump.
 
TheFifthSet

TheFifthSet

Legend
Ganstaz003 said:
Fair enough! I didn't notice that. Even then, it's only one match played between them.

I think you're correct. Andy Murray is more likely to beat all the other tennis players (outside Federer, Nadal and Djokovic) than those 3 themselves.

Think about it! Who would you rather have if you were betting on to beat all the other players excluding the 'big four' members. Andy Murray or the likes of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic? Let's put it this way? Who would you rather have playing big hitters like Raonic, Karlovic, Nick Kyrgios and etc. Andy Murray or those other 3 members? Fact is, Andy Murray is superior to the rest of the field than Federer, Nadal and Djokovic
Click to expand...

Record against the rest of the field


Novak Djokovic: 709-106, 87.0%
Rafael Nadal: 788-134, 85.5%
Roger Federer: 1051-190, 84.8%
Andy Murray: 629-128, 83.0%

In majors

Novak Djokovic: 216-22, 90.8%
Roger Federer: 307-32, 90.5%
Rafael Nadal: 194-25, 88.5%
Andy Murray: 183-24, 88.4%

Masters

Rafael Nadal: 306-54, 86.4%
Novak Djokovic: 257-41, 86.2%
Roger Federer: 323-71, 82.0%
Andy Murray: 197-55, 78.1%

World Tour Finals

Roger Federer: 42-7, 85.7%
Novak Djokovic: 20-6, 76.9%
Andy Murray: 10-4, 71.4%
Rafael Nadal: 11-5, 68.8%
 
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G

Ganstaz003

Rookie
So how comes Andy Murray doesn't have ANY stylistic 'bad match up' problems against any inferior player like how Djokovic does against Ivo Karlovic and Nick Kyrgios, Rafael Nadal does against Nikolai Davydenko and Dustin Brown and how Roger Federer seems more vulnerable to BIG HITTERS ON THE ZONE than Andy Murray?

It appears that if one is inferior to Andy Murray as a tennis player, then 'big hitting, speed, baseline abilities, big serve or anything else is irrelevant. Andy Murray neutralizes his opponent's strengths unlike no other. Andy Murray is the CLOSEST thing to being immune to 'big hitters'. Why? Because he has not a SINGLE negative record against a big hitter / server unlike Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal. Even Roger Federer appears to be more vulnerable to getting blasted out of the court. Yet, if Andy Murray is on, it doesn't matter what level his opponents are in, irrespective of their style in terms of whether they are a big hitter or a counter puncher, Andy Murray neutralizes such opponents and effectively dismantles them offensively as well by choosing the correct strategy against the specific opponent being faced. He made the big serves of Milos Raonic and Ivo Karlovic, which are usually seen as 'BOMBS' against other opponents, appear as if they were the shots coming from someone who has the power of an average toddler. How many people can return a 145 MPH + serve right to the baseline or foot of the opponent with the utmost ease. That's exactly what Murray is capable of.

So if anyone doubts what I wrote, one must ask themselves why isn't Andy Murray as vulnerable to big hitters like Dustin Brown, Ivo Karlovic and Nick Kyrgios as much as Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic are to them. Why is it that such players at their best (or even below) have huge success and chances of not just beating, but demolishing the likes of Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic? Yet, those same players ARE ABSOLUTELY helpless against Andy Murray because nothing they use in terms of weapons have the same affect against Murray. In other words, none of their weapons work against Murray as it works against Nadal or Djokovic. Andy Murray simply neutralizes those weapons FAR better than practically any other player today. Dustin Brown has demolished Nadal twice. Nick Kyrgios and Ivo Karlovic have ABSOLUTELY man handled and demolished Novak Djokovic by blasting him off the court multiple times. Yet, those same players look like amateurs and helpless against the tactical brilliance of Andy Murray where none of those same weapons work.

Only Roger Federer is closest to Andy Murray in terms of success and dominance against the rest of the field. Yet, even Federer is vulnerable to 'lights out tennis' as proven against Tsonga in 2011 Wimbledon and against Marin Cilic. The same Tsonga who played just as good against Murray didn't stand a chance. The offensive game of Tsonga which was good enough to blast Federer off the court in 2011 Wimbledon still isn't good enough to do the same against Murray.

So we can draw some conclusions from this. One being that Andy Murray is the best defensive player and returner against the most powerful hitters / servers of the current generation. There's absolutely not even a shred of doubt about this. Murray's defense puts Nadal's defense to shame (against the best / biggest hitters / servers). Murray's top spin lobs and the ability to neutralize a defensive point is better than anybody's. Andy Murray's defensive capabilities on the fastest surface (grass) makes his defense MUCH more impressive than being the best defensive player on the slowest surface (clay).
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
@Ganstaz003

^^ even after having been disproved throughly and completely, seriously ?

Post #6,15,16,25 for records in general. (his losing h2hs and his record against the field minus the big 3)

Post #25 clearly proves that federer is better against the biggest servers. (the top 5 they've faced -- roddick, karlovic, isner, raonic, anderson)

Also :

Here :

Murray getting blasted off court :

2009 USO vs cilic :


2015 USO vs anderson :


2010 USO vs stan :


2013 USO vs stan :


also got blasted off court by berdych in RG 2010 in straights
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
TheFifthSet said:
Not a losing record but he's 10-8 against Wawrinka, 2-4 since he became the Staminal, 3-3 in majors.

At one point Berdych was 6-4 against him...but he's lost their last 16 sets.

Fish gave him nightmares, 5-4 h2h in favour of Murray but Mardy owns the longest win streak, beat him 3 times in a row in 2010.

Coric is 2-2 w/him with both wins being very lopsided (6-1, 6-3 and 6-3, 6-3).
Click to expand...

was aware of the stan , coric and berdych records, but the fish one , I wasn't. that's interesting.
 
The Green Mile

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Andy Murray's record against Coric shouldn't be taken too seriously, there's no match up issue. He just happened to play two of the worst matches I've ever seen from him, especially in Dubai. 6-1 6-3, 15 winners to 55 UEs for Andy that day...
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
abmk said:
Murray is :

0-1 vs safin
1-2 vs fernando gonzalez
2-3 vs ancic
1-2 vs clement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Murray_career_statistics

Scroll down to the bottom
Click to expand...
That Clement dude should never be hired as a babysitter...he has wins vs all of The Big 4 when they were teens (djoker barely 20) and was particularly tough on baby fedr, knocking him out of consecutive AO draws in 3R without dropping a set while winning 3 of 4 matches that made the eventual final h2h 8-3 fedr.
 
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