How Many Wimbledon Titles Would Raonic Win On "Fast" Grass?

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
But it wasn't an anomaly. Sebastien Grosjean made it to the semis two years in a row. 2001 was the last attacking tennis we saw at Wimby. After that, it's been a flurry of long baseline exchanges. Federer and Roddick's matches have been a lot of heavy hitting from the baseline with few S&V points in between. Before 2001, the grass was not even firm enough to sustain a 20 shot rally. Since then, however, Wimbledon has been dominated by baseline play.

I mean, if you consider Andy Roddick an "attacking" player, then that's a really sad commentary on the state of men's tennis. Boris Becker was an attacking player. Tim Henman was an attacking player. Pat Rafter was an attacking player. Andy Roddick is a suped up Jim Courier with an even worse net game.

One instance does not a trend make. Seriously. You took one instance of one player. I could do that too, but it proves nothing. Federer lost 1st round in 2002 and then won the whole thing in 2003, but based on 2002 he was terrible on "green clay" right? Because that's the logic you're using.

I didn't know you had to S&V to be attacking player. If that's the case then nobody in this era is an attacking player since even Federer barely uses S&V these days. Surely you're not telling me that Federer is not an attacking player?

Edit: Llodra is still an attacking player I guess.
 
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HoyaPride

Professional
I didn't know you had to S&V to be attacking player. If that's the case then nobody in this era is an attacking player since even Federer barely uses S&V these days. Surely you're not telling me that Federer is not an attacking player?

By my definition, no. He has a more balanced game than most of the field, but an attacking player? No. Then again, I grew up watching Becker, Ivanisevic, Stich, Rafter and Sampras covering the net like wet blankets at Wimbledon, so my perception of an "attacking" player is based on that rather than baseline pounding with the occasional foray into net.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
By my definition, no. He has a more balanced game than most of the field, but an attacking player? No. Then again, I grew up watching Becker, Ivanisevic, Stich, Rafter and Sampras covering the net like wet blankets at Wimbledon, so my perception of an "attacking" player is based on that rather than baseline pounding with the occasional foray into net.

Ok. Fair enough. Everybody is a product of their era though. Like you said, the grass didn't sustain long rallies so they had to attack the net. If all those guys played today and wanted to win in this era they would have to be baseliners. It's not a slight on any of them. It's just a fact.
 

HoyaPride

Professional
Ok. Fair enough. Everybody is a product of their era though. Like you said, the grass didn't sustain long rallies so they had to attack the net. If all those guys played today and wanted to win in this era they would have to be baseliners. It's not a slight on any of them. It's just a fact.

Yeah, then why all of the complaining about "slow" grass. I remember reading an article a few years back where Federer said he preferred to play from the back of the court rather than serve and volley because "you have a lot less control of the point at net." The courts are firmer now, which means Federer doesn't have to play seven consecutive matches of S&V tennis. Instead, he can mix it up, and break players with more powerful games with extended baseline rallies.

If he had to play every Wimbledon on truly "fast" grass, then his odds of winning Wimbledon would diminish. If you had a really slick, low bouncing court that couldn't sustain rallies, then the only way someone like Milos Raonic would lose (if his serve was on fire) would be in tiebreaks. And having to beat a guy with a serve as big as his in three tiebreaks is a tall order. Anything less than your best service game could mean a quick death. Raonic may not win the whole thing, but he'd definitely be much more dangerous on fast grass. One hot day and he'd take someone like Djokovic out with relative ease.

IMO, service breaks at Wimbledon meant more back in the 90s. If you lost serve to Ivanisevic on a good day, then you'd be better off just saving your energy and conceding the set. You were finished. In the 2000s, however, you see service breaks traded back and forth much more often. And it's not because the ROS got so much better. The ball sits higher and the grass is slower.
 
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Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Raonic would win zero Wimbledon's in any era. His game is nowhere near good enough. The return was a KEY part of winning Wimbledon in the 90's and Raonic has no return game to speak of. I have my doubts he could take out Novak anywhere.

Anyway, I'm done. We basically agreed so I'm done here.
 
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tipsa...don'tlikehim!

Talk Tennis Guru
Raonic would win zero Wimbledon's in any era. His game is nowhere near good enough. The return was a KEY part of winning Wimbledon in the 90's and Raonic has no return game to speak of. I have my doubts he could take out Novak anywhere.

Anyway, I'm done. We basically agreed so I'm done here.

I am surprised people think Raonic would not have a chance, Ivanisevic won it, I liked Ivanisevic a lot but you have to tell he was not the most talented player around, his volley was better than Raonic but his groundstrokes were inferior... Raonic on a fast grass with the draw of Ivanisevic in 2001 I think he would win.
 
I am surprised people think Raonic would not have a chance, Ivanisevic won it, I liked Ivanisevic a lot but you have to tell he was not the most talented player around, his volley was better than Raonic but his groundstrokes were inferior... Raonic on a fast grass with the draw of Ivanisevic in 2001 I think he would win.

exactly. Raonic moves better than Ivanisevic with a much more lethal forehand too.
 
Raonic would win zero Wimbledon's in any era. His game is nowhere near good enough. The return was a KEY part of winning Wimbledon in the 90's and Raonic has no return game to speak of. I have my doubts he could take out Novak anywhere.

Anyway, I'm done. We basically agreed so I'm done here.

Pete specifically said that the serve was the key. He had just his serve in 2000, was hobbling badly throughout with shin splints, and still won.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I am surprised people think Raonic would not have a chance, Ivanisevic won it, I liked Ivanisevic a lot but you have to tell he was not the most talented player around, his volley was better than Raonic but his groundstrokes were inferior... Raonic on a fast grass with the draw of Ivanisevic in 2001 I think he would win.

Ivanisevic served even better and had a better return I think.

That wasn't an easy draw in 2001 anyway, Rafter, Henman, Rusedski, Safin, Roddick, Johansson. Raonic would be lucky to make the SF.
 

tipsa...don'tlikehim!

Talk Tennis Guru
Ivanisevic served even better and had a better return I think.

That wasn't an easy draw in 2001 anyway, Rafter, Henman, Rusedski, Safin, Roddick, Johansson. Raonic would be lucky to make the SF.

I actually just checked that draw and WOW i don't know why I always thought his draw was way easier... impressive draw indeed.
 
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